Hey what's up hello! In light of Nikkie Tutorials being forced to come out recently, we decided to talk about being outed and outing other people. The TLDR: don't do it you dick butt.
Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/dont-out-people
Donate: patreon.com/soundsfakepod
Follow: @soundsfakepod
Join: https://discord.gg/W7VBHMt
Buy our book: www.soundsfakepod.com/book
Hey what's up hello! In light of Nikkie Tutorials being forced to come out recently, we decided to talk about being outed and outing other people. The TLDR: don't do it you dick butt.
Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/dont-out-people
Donate: patreon.com/soundsfakepod
Follow: @soundsfakepod
Join: https://discord.gg/W7VBHMt
Buy our book: www.soundsfakepod.com/book
[00:00:00]
SARAH: Hey what's up hello! Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl, I'm Sarah, that's me.
KAYLA: And a demi-straight girl, that's me, Kayla.
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.
KAYLA: On today's episode, being outed.
BOTH: Sounds Fake But Okay.
[Intro Music]
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod!
KAYLA: Oh no, um, uh, hold on. Guac-a-moly?
SARAH: Nice. Free Shavacado.
KAYLA: Killed it.
SARAH: Alright, well, uh, Kayla, what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: Today we're talking about something stupid.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And bad.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And… but topical.
SARAH: But topical. Tell me more, Kayla. Tell me more.
KAYLA: Uh, I will. Are you just, just so much anticipation? I was going to say quivering with anticipation, but that was gross, but then I guess...
SARAH: I mean, you're just going to go full, um...
KAYLA: I did, I did say it anyway, so...
SARAH: Yeah, alright.
KAYLA: Uh, so it's being outed, or being forced to come out.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: This is, I was going to say festive, but festive is not the right word. This is timely.
KAYLA: Topical, I already said it.
SARAH: Topical, because I don't know how many of you know who NikkieTutorials is, but she is a makeup artist on YouTube that Kayla and I were both familiar with. Um, she's from the Netherlands, which is fun.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: Um, she's very good at putting makeup on.
KAYLA: She's a very successful lady.
SARAH: Yes. And Kayla texted me just the other day and was like, did you see that Nikkie just came out as trans? And I was like, what now? And Kayla was like, Nikkie came out as trans. And I was like, I did not know what to do this information. I had no…
KAYLA: You were just the only other person I knew that followed her, so I was like, who am I to tell of this news?
SARAH: Yeah. Well, I was just very surprised because she seemed to me to be a very passing person. And so, she is a trans woman, but she came out recently, even though she has been on YouTube for 11 years at this point, 12 years.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And she was forced to come out recently because someone was essentially blackmailing her.
KAYLA: Did you read any of the drama about the blackmailing?
SARAH: I didn't.
KAYLA: So, this isn't really relevant to the topic, but it's just very dramatic and shitty. So, you know how she had a brand deal and made a makeup palette with Too Faced, the makeup brand, years ago?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And then it went really badly because the contract they gave her was really shitty and the makeup ended up being really shitty and made her look bad. Anyway, and for other reasons too, people don't like that company. So, after she put out the video...
SARAH: Would you say that they're Too Faced?
KAYLA: No. After the video, the creative director or some high up lady in Too Faced and the sister of the founder and CEO or whatever, her Instagram caption was like, Oh, transgender? That's not the only thing she's hiding from her audience or whatever.
SARAH: Oh my god.
KAYLA: And then people freaked out and then she changed her bio on Instagram. It wasn't even an Instagram post, it was her bio, which is like, okay. Changed it to like, just to be clear, I love transgender people, I just hate when people lie to others, blah blah blah. So apparently this lady got fired but no one believes it because Estee Lauder owns Too Faced and Estee Lauder was like, well now you're making us look bad. It's this whole thing. That doesn't really matter to anything we're talking about other than the fact that it's like, what a buck.
SARAH: But yeah, so I watched the video where she kind of explained the whole situation, so did Kayla. Basically, the TLDR was that she was transitioning in the early days of her YouTube channel.
KAYLA: Which is wild to transition in front of a large audience and then say nothing about it.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like how crazy.
SARAH: I mean, I think she had already started the transition by the time she started, so it wasn't like there was a full super noticeable gender transition.
KAYLA: But still wild.
SARAH: Still. And at first, I was like, how the hell did she transition without telling anyone 12 years ago? And then I remembered that she's from the Netherlands.
KAYLA: Well, what was crazy to me is she mentioned how her classmates reacted, because she was like 14 when she fully transitioned.
SARAH: Yeah, when she started transitioning.
KAYLA: Right. But started dressing like a girl and growing her hair out and stuff like that when she was very young. And she mentioned how some of her classmates took it really well, and some of them bullied her and were really pieces of shit. Which is why I was surprised that this hadn't come out sooner, like someone hadn't exposed her.
SARAH: Yeah, that's fair.
KAYLA: Because obviously other people knew, like people she went to school with I'm sure knew, but then didn't go to the press and weren't like, I'll give you, give me this much money and I'll tell you this.
SARAH: Right, yeah.
KAYLA: Which, it's sad that I'm so surprised that that didn't happen. It's great that that didn't happen until now when someone was shitty, but.
SARAH: Right, but yeah. Apparently, someone had this information, was basically blackmailing her, basically being like, if you don't tell them I will. So, she was like, fine. It's not something I'm ashamed of, it's just didn't seem relevant.
KAYLA: Yeah, she mentioned in the video, I was going to tell everyone, eventually I just didn't know when and I was scared because for obvious reasons. The person that blackmailed her apparently was like, you're lying to your audience, they don't know who you really are. Which is just like, no.
SARAH: It's a lot. So, this week we're talking about being outed or being forced to come out in light of this. It was actually suggested also this week, Kayla just posted on Twitter like, hey, what should we pod about because we're all in an existential crisis.
KAYLA: I really didn't know. And there was a lot of good ideas, so I'm sure we'll revisit some of them.
SARAH: Do you remember who it was?
KAYLA: It was like two people. You talk, I'll look.
SARAH: Okay. So that's what we're going to talk about because it's topical and it's something that we've talked about coming out before, but I'm kind of surprised we haven't talked about being outed.
KAYLA: Yeah. Ginger.
SARAH: Ginger.
KAYLA: @G-X, nope, at J-Y-N-J-E-R-G-O.
SARAH: All right.
KAYLA: A classic follower. They're always around.
SARAH: Thank you. Yeah, I definitely, I knew I recognized the name when I saw that they had tweeted us. Um, yes. So, thank you for that suggestion.
KAYLA: Yes, thank you.
SARAH: It's topical and timely. Um, so I guess, how do we want to, how do we want to start this? Because there's a lot of different angles to come at this from.
KAYLA: Yeah, I mean, I know you said you took some notes…
SARAH: I did.
KAYLA: I classically kept my notes in my head.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Um, I don't know, I mean, I know… what I'm interested to hear your thoughts on is I remember when we were talking about like, should we do this topic? You were like, yeah, maybe. And then you came back and you were like, actually, we really should do this. I think it would be good for younger people, especially.
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: So, I guess I want to know why you think that specifically.
SARAH: Yeah, I think because when I first started thinking about this, I mean, like the first thing I was thinking of is, okay, say I am directing it at someone who has been outed. Like, A, it sucks, and I'm sorry that it happened to you. But B, it's also not your fault. And I need you to know that it's not your fault. And I was thinking about the multiple different scenarios in which this might have happened. So, if you have a relationship with the person who outed you, I would say you definitely need to evaluate that relationship. It's one thing if they outed you on accident and are genuinely apologetic, because that does happen sometimes.
KAYLA: Sure
SARAH: And it's shitty, but it's not necessarily... If it wasn't done out of malice, it still could have caused harm, but that's something you can talk through with that person.
KAYLA: Well yeah, it's different than having the intention to do it. It still obviously is terrible, but there is something different about it.
SARAH: Yeah, but if that person outed you on purpose, it was probably done to hurt you. And you may want to reconsider that person's role in your life. But then I was thinking, okay, I feel like it's pretty straightforward if a person did it on purpose just to hurt you or just to whatever. But then I thought about the situations in which a person is outing you because they genuinely think it will help you, but they still did it without your permission and they still did it on purpose. And I think that kind of sort of relates to the situation that Nikkie was in where the person was like, you know, I'm going to tell them if you don't because you're lying to them and they deserve to know.
[00:10:00]
SARAH: I mean that is kind of partially just to hurt her, but also, it's just like they have a different opinion on whether or not people should know than she did.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And they kind of took that out on her. And so, if you are in a situation where someone genuinely thought that outing you would help you, but they still did it, you do need to have a serious discussion with them about boundaries. Because, especially if they're a person who's close to you, because they don't get to make decisions for you no matter how good their intentions are. And I think the thing that really made me want… the thing that made me say that I think this would be good for younger listeners is like, I don't care if it's your significant other, I don't care if it's your parent who does this. Like, even if you're a minor, it's not your parent's place to make that decision and to out you against your will because if you are old enough to understand your own identity, you are old enough to take control of it. And if you are a minor, obviously you do need to like work in concert with your parents about certain choices that you make surrounding your identity, that sort of thing. Everyone's in a little bit of a different boat, but you're still an independent human being who deserves the right and the dignity to come out on your own terms. So long as you're not causing actual harm to people and know I'm homophobic and therefore feel emotionally harmed by you coming out does not count as actual harm.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And so, I guess I really just wanted to emphasize that, especially for younger listeners, that your queer identity or even if you're not queer, but the queer identities of people around you, that's theirs to own. And no one else is in any place to make decisions on a queer person's behalf when it comes to coming out and that sort of thing.
KAYLA: Right. I think it reminds me of, I feel like a lot of the times when we talk about coming out, we talk about how coming out is easier now than it once was, but it's still not super safe for all people. So, we always say, if you don't feel comfortable coming out, you may feel pressured because a lot of other people are now, but you don't have to. And I think a lot of people in places of privilege or comparative privilege might be confused why people wouldn't want to come out because it's like, oh, well, I came out and it was totally fine. My family accepted me and I was totally safe. Whereas that's not the same for other people. Like some people could be in really dangerous situations.
SARAH: Yeah, and I will definitely say that for like, if a person around you is struggling with the coming out process, there's only one thing you need to know, and that is that you do not know better than them. Like you do not have all the information. The only person with all the information, if there even is one, is them. If they're open to advice, feel free to give it, but you don't get to make their decisions. You know, you don't have a full understanding of their situation. You don't know better than them about their own life, their own identity, like what they are and aren't ready for and what is and isn't safe for them. So, if they're, again, if they're open to advice and you would like to give it, okay. But you're not there to make the decision for them. You don't know better than them.
KAYLA: Right. I feel like… I remember, and I don't know how good of a job I did at this, but I remember when you were deciding whether to come out fully and you were like, should I post this thing on Facebook? Should I do this? Should I do that? I feel like I remember kind of giving you my opinion of like, I think it would be okay for you to come out. I think you're ready. But I also don't think I ever told you, like, no, it's time. You got to.
SARAH: Right. And like, the reason that I was coming to you with that was because I kind of felt like I wanted to, I was just kind of afraid to.
KAYLA: And like, seeking reassurance. Yeah.
SARAH: Yeah. And you were basically saying like, yeah, it's okay. I think it's okay.
KAYLA: And I think that's an important point of like, you were coming to me with the question. I wasn't going to you with unsolicited thoughts and advice.
SARAH: Right. So, like, if you have advice for someone, like, don't necessarily just give it to them unprompted.
KAYLA: Yeah. Oh god, no. No one wants that.
SARAH: Like, it's not even just like if they're open to advice or if they seem open to advice. Like, you have to, like, it's like you won't know if they're open to advice unless it's something that they're like, you know, kind of actively thinking about, actively maybe talking to you about. So, if you don't know because they're not talking to you about it, keep your mouth shut.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Also, don't, don't should, you vast motherfuckers.
KAYLA: Don't should.
SARAH: Telling someone that they should come out, even just being like, I should come out, like, no, like.
KAYLA: You shouldn't do anything.
SARAH: Do you want to come out? Do you feel comfortable coming out? Do you think it will improve your mental health to do so? And, you know, those are the things you, like, want to be thinking about rather than like, oh, I should just because I feel like I have to, like, no, who the fuck cares? And if it's not you, if you're someone else who's looking at someone else and being like, you should come out, okay, shut your mouth. No one cares. It's none of your business.
KAYLA: Right. I think there's… I can totally understand the pressure to come out. Like I said, especially like if all of your friends are coming out or like you see other people coming out and you're like, okay, well, they did it and they were fine. So why am I so afraid of it? Like, no, because every situation is different. Like there's no, you don't owe anyone anything.
SARAH: Right. I guess kind of the follow up question after, you know, because before we were kind of talking about like, it's not your fault if you were outed. If you out someone else, you've been a dick, reconsider.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: But what, okay, so what should a person do if they are outed by someone else?
KAYLA: I mean, I think either cutting off or having very serious conversations with the person who did it is necessary. If it's safe.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: If it's not safe, then, you know, that's not worth it. But I think talking to that person, trying to understand why they did that and to convey to them that, like, hey, this is, like, you took something away from me.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like, that's stealing and that's a crime, actually. I mean, if it's safe, and it obviously doesn't have to be something you do right away, especially if it's something that's very emotional and very hurtful, you obviously should wait until you're ready to talk to that person. But I feel like it would be helpful to both parties.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I don't know. I think safety is the number one thing.
SARAH: I do too.
KAYLA: Because if someone outs you and your parents didn't know, if that's going to be a situation for you that's not good, you need to get out of that situation. Obviously, that's not easy or possible for everyone else, or for everyone, depending on their life circumstances, but I think doing whatever you can to protect yourself.
SARAH: Right. And I think for some people it might feel necessary to come out and clear the air, kind of in the way that Nikkie did in this situation, where she was just like, I’m going to take charge of this, like I’m not going to let you start rumors and out me or whatever, so I’m just going to come forward and clear the air and you know just kind of say, here is the situation, I am X, it was shitty of Y person to do this, this is what they did, respect me or leave. Which it's easy for me to say that, just because of the situation I'm in, that may not be possible for everyone, but I think for some people it could be. As it was for Nikkie.
KAYLA: A lot of this is definitely an easy for us thing to say, I've never really had to come out in any way, like your coming out obviously went great, but obviously this is, I mean we're speaking from the men's point of privilege, but… Yeah, I mean I think if you're able to take control of it, I mean coming out, I mean I don't want to say it's a big deal because like I said you don't need to do it, but to some people it's not inherently a big deal, but to some people it is. And so, if you had like big plans of like, oh this is how I wanted to come out one day, I wanted to say this or do this, like you should still do that. Like yeah, people might know now, but if you were going to come out by like wearing a really great dress to the prom, then like, okay, do it.
SARAH: Wear a great fucking dress to the prom.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Yeah, I mean, I think that just in general, taking back control of the situation is one of the best things you can do if it's possible for you. Just because, you know, and whether taking back control of the situation is stepping forward and being like, I was outed, it was shitty, here's my actual identity, ha ha ha. Or for other people, like taking control of the situation might just be like cutting that person out of their life.
[00:20:00]
SARAH: Or, you know, like telling that person that what they did was bad and this is why, even if they can't totally cut that person out of their life. I think taking control over the situation in whatever way you can is going to make it, the situation a lot better for you just because, I mean, you want to be in control of your whole life and that's the whole thing with coming out is you want to be in control of your own coming out situation. And the more control of it you can kind of take after the fact, I think the better off you're going to feel. I mean, you're not going to feel great because you were still outed. But, so.
KAYLA: I think this is going back to what we were first talking about. But in my mind, I feel like there's two main groups of people who might like out other people or struggle with this. Family, because families are always shit. And if you're in a relationship with someone and it's on the DL because one or both of you isn't out. So, I don't know. This obviously isn't something I have experience with either, but I can only imagine having a relationship and having to keep it secret or whatever for whatever reason would be frustrating and hard. And if one party is out and the other isn't, I can see how the person who is out might try to pressure the other person to come out or if the other person might feel pressured because oh well, they are, so I need to.
SARAH: This is kind of the plot of The Prom, the Broadway musical.
KAYLA: It is. Yes.
SARAH: Sort of.
KAYLA: No, it really is.
SARAH: I mean, she's not necessarily like, no one gets outed in that.
KAYLA: No, no one is forcing anything…
SARAH: Like everyone comes out on their own terms
KAYLA: But it is something that they struggle with.
SARAH: They struggle with, yeah, because one of them is out and one of them is not.
KAYLA: Yeah. I don't know, I don't have any real thoughts on that. I just kept thinking about it.
SARAH: Yeah, I mean, I think the hardest situation is if you get outed by someone in your family because there is, in a lot of cultures, there is like a certain connection and connection, I guess, to your family that society frowns upon if it's completely broken off. Especially if you're a younger person and you are still a minor or if you are financially dependent on your family in some way, that can be really difficult. And I think that's always going to be the trickiest situation. But I mean, in that situation, I would hope that at least you have at least one other person outside of your family, or ideally in your family, who does support you. Who can kind of make you feel less alone in this situation and less trapped in this situation? Just because, you know, even if right now you don't have a major out, like at least knowing that there's someone else who is there with you, you know, seek out that person, try and find a way to, you know, again, like take control of the situation as best as you can, even if you don't have a ton of space to do that.
KAYLA: Yeah. It just like boggles my mind that this is still a thing.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: You know?
SARAH: Here we are.
KAYLA: I just, I mean in any situation, but especially someone doing it with someone that's like so high status, or like a celebrity, like NikkieTutorials, it's like how do you think that's going to go well?
SARAH: Well, they would become infamous for being the one who added NikkieTutorials.
KAYLA: I know, but like, no, even if it like worked or whatever and they blackmailed her, like no one is going to like you because then you're the person that outed her, and no one likes that.
SARAH: Some people just want attention, and some people just want to hurt people. And they need to reevaluate their fucking lives, but that is the case for some people.
KAYLA: I just don't understand.
SARAH: Yeah. And a lot of times, I would say the vast majority of the time, it just comes from a place of ignorance. So, let's continue to educate ourselves and the people around us about queer identities and how these people exist and how they're normal people so that this happens less and less and less and less.
KAYLA: You know what I hate?
SARAH: Hmm?
KAYLA: It's when people are like, I'm coming out as straight.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: What if we just started outing people as straight?
SARAH: I mean... I don't know, I really don't know what to say to that. I was just thinking of, was it from Love, Simon?
KAYLA: I never saw it.
SARAH: Where his friends came out to their parents as straight and their parents were like, what? But they were just like... it was a solidarity thing.
KAYLA: Well yeah, if you're doing it in solidarity, I get it. I feel like the people who come out as straight are the people that are like, stupid, ignorant, call people snowflakes.
SARAH: Yeah, and they're just the type of people who... the kind of people who publicly come out as straight are the kind of people who are mocking other people for their coming out experiences and that's fucking bullshit.
KAYLA: I think publicly coming out as straight is basically just publicly coming out as a bigot.
SARAH: Honestly, I'm on the exact same page.
KAYLA: It's one way to look at it, I think.
SARAH: It's one thing if people were speculating about your sexuality and you're just clarifying, like, no, this is my sexuality, but if you just unprompted are like, hey guys, I have something to tell you, I'm straight. Oh no. Fucking walk home.
KAYLA: Don't even walk home. You don't have a home anymore now.
SARAH: Tumble down a hill in the general direction of where you used to live.
KAYLA: Interesting.
SARAH: Yeah. That really went off the rails.
KAYLA: It did
SARAH: I kind of lost track of where we were there.
KAYLA: I don't know, I was just talking about how people are stupid.
SARAH: People are stupid, but I think, I mean, we could get into a whole philosophical discussion about whether people are inherently good or inherently evil and me and Kayla do not want to get back into the argument about evil eight-year-olds.
KAYLA: Well, I think my opinion has changed on that.
SARAH: Has it? Oh, that's exciting.
KAYLA: I know. We still have our other two major arguments, but...
SARAH: I mean, that was one of the first major arguments we ever had
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Was about whether or not an eight-year-old…
KAYLA: Could be evil.
SARAH: Could be evil
KAYLA: Sarah and I have only had three arguments.
SARAH: Like, major arguments.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And they've all been completely...
KAYLA: Stupid.
SARAH: Inconsequential.
KAYLA: No, they're not stupid. I'm not stupid. I'm passionate about every single one of them.
SARAH: They're just... So am I. That's why we had them.
KAYLA: Should we do an episode where we just debate and then ask people who's right?
SARAH: Oh my god.
KAYLA: A Patreon exclusive?
SARAH: That’s dangerous
KAYLA: I know, because then I'll be angry if everyone thinks I'm wrong.
SARAH: Yeah, I know. No, but I was just... We could go into the philosophical discussion about whether people are good or bad, and whatever you believe is what you believe.
KAYLA: No, I think I re-changed my opinion back again.
SARAH: Kayla...
KAYLA: Sorry.
SARAH: I'm not doing this right now.
KAYLA: Sorry, I was just thinking about it. Making a really good point.
SARAH: Regardless of what you believe, I think that not everyone is... It's not like everyone you ever meet is going to be inherently a bad person. Even if you believe that people can be inherently evil. It's not going to be everyone you ever meet. And so you just have to find those people who are good. And I think some people, if you educate them, they'll be like, Oh, shit, I was wrong. And I think it's all about educating people and finding people who are good to you and making them your people. And if you have to leave relationships behind, you have to leave relationships behind. But you have to do what's best for your safety and your mental health.
KAYLA: I would also say though that there's definitely people out there that aren't worth educating. So, if the person that outed you or is being a shit to you, is like you know for a fact they're not going to turn it around, they're not going to want to learn anything, they're not going to want to listen to you, don't waste your time on that either.
SARAH: If they're not willing to learn, then yeah, that's a... I was going to say, I don't know that I agree that there are some people who aren't worth educating, but there are some people who just aren't willing to learn, and in that situation, don't waste your time.
KAYLA: Well yeah, I think if like you know the person won't listen to you and will just keep being terrible no matter what, don't.
SARAH: It's not worth the energy and emotional buffoonery that you're going to have to go through to do it.
KAYLA: Yep.
SARAH: You got to do what's right for you, man.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: You got to fuckin' do what's right for you. Do you have anything to add on the matter?
[00:30:00]
KAYLA: Um…
SARAH: TLDR, don't out people for any reason. You don't know better than them. If you're a person who is queer, come out on your own terms. Don't let other people pressure you into coming out if you're not ready. You're the only one who knows if you're ready or not, so...
KAYLA: I mean, it's really kind of like a hate crime if you think about it.
SARAH: Yeah, because it can put people in danger.
KAYLA: Yeah. Just thinking about all of this stupid shit that's happening on Twitter with asexual people and people DMing asexual people nasty things and putting them on lists and just being terrible. I'm sure this is a thing that happens where people just hate asexual people for some reason and then they're like well I’m going to out you as this thing that I don’t even believe that it exists but just to like make you suffer, which is terrible
SARAH: Yeah. And that’s a whole other like, I don't believe asexuality is real but I'm going to out you anyway just because it'll hurt you, motherfucker.
KAYLA: Yeah, that one is really like…
SARAH: HOO!
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: I just said, HOO!
KAYLA: Oh. But that one especially, because you can't even make the excuse of like, oh well, you were lying to people or oh well, other people deserve to know or like, you can't even make any of those excuses if you don't even believe it's real. That's like just doing it.
SARAH: Just being a dick.
KAYLA: To be hurtful.
SARAH: Yeah. You're just being an asshat.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: An ass dick.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: A dickass.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: They would probably take offense to being called a dickass because they would probably think that's gay.
KAYLA: What is a dickass?
SARAH: I don't know.
KAYLA: Oh. Oh, I just heard that car.
SARAH: Yeah, it was a loud car. I'm going to leave that in just for you guys' adventure and excitement.
KAYLA: Now that we don't have the train in the background anymore.
SARAH: I was a car. But yeah, being outed sucks. And if you are outed and you don't have anyone to talk to, we are here. There are people in our Discord who are here. Not everyone is a shitty piece of shit sauce.
KAYLA: Yeah. And I do want to reiterate that obviously I know both of us are speaking from a place of privilege and neither of us have gone through this. So, some of the stuff we said might not be an option for everyone. But there's always, I don't want to say there's always some type of option, but because...
SARAH: I mean, there is... even if your options aren't necessarily good, there are still going to be options. And eventually, hopefully, you'll be in a situation where the options get better and better and better.
KAYLA: Right. And like I don't know, I'm just thinking of worst-case scenarios now. Because I was like, oh, you can find an online community if your parents are really strict, but what if they took away your phone or something? I don't know. Anyway. Either way, even if you are outed, if you are in a really shitty situation, if someone does take that opportunity away from you to come out yourself, they can't take away your sexuality.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: They can't take away your identity or anything, so even if they take all of that away from you, you still have yourself. Which really doesn't feel like much sometimes, but.
SARAH: Yeah, and it may feel hard to feel proud of that because of whatever has happened to you, but that's still you, and you are still worth a lot, so jot that one down.
KAYLA: And I think that is an achievement though of like being able to sit with yourself and your sexuality, even if you're not quite sure about it or you're still questioning or you don't like it very much, being able to even realize or understand or accept your sexuality even a little bit is a huge achievement, especially if you have people around you that are the type of people to out you. Those are probably people who don't really like your sexuality a lot or would rather you change it and you in any small way...
SARAH: You are defying them.
KAYLA: Yeah, defying that and standing up to that is big.
SARAH: That's great.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Kayla, what's our poll for this week?
KAYLA: Oh, I don't know.
SARAH: If someone outs someone else on purpose, are you allowed to throw tomatoes at them?
KAYLA: Interesting. Hold on, let me jot that one down.
SARAH: Specifically rotten tomatoes?
KAYLA: Interesting, okay.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: If someone outs someone else, are you... okay.
SARAH: I was going to say, are you allowed to dip them in boiling water, and then I was like, that's a little aggressive.
KAYLA: Yeah, at first my mind was just like, are you allowed to kill them? And I was like, this is...
SARAH: This seems a bit much.
KAYLA: That's not helping anybody.
SARAH: Amazing. Okay. Kayla, what's your beef and your juice this week?
KAYLA: Oh god.
SARAH: Your tomato juice, if you will.
KAYLA: My beef is that... The person above me is walking really loud. And... let's see. I don't know, my mental health has been pretty whack this week, so that's no fun.
SARAH: Cool
KAYLA: But my juice is I had a work project that I had been working for literal months and it went really well.
SARAH: Damn
KAYLA: We started it this week officially and it went really well, that was exciting. And then...
SARAH: Was it the Facebook group thing?
KAYLA: It was.
SARAH: Yay!
KAYLA: Yeah, we've been working on it for literal months and it finally happened. Which is exciting. And also, I went to get sushi last night with a friend because I've been craving it for a week, so that was good. And then we were walking to my car and as I walked up to my car there was a guy looking at the meter, like he was going to give me a ticket because the time had run out. But I like walked up right then and got in the car so I didn't get a ticket, so it was the most magical timing of my life. And I truly felt invincible.
SARAH: Wow, look at you go.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: My beef is that I'm currently applying for jobs.
KAYLA: And that's bad.
SARAH: And on a technical level, it's not really a difficult thing to do, but it is frankly exhausting for no apparent reason. Very disheartening. Also, another problem I'm finding is that I'm a woman who has been socialized to not attempt anything that I am not, like, completely overqualified for. Like how Hillary Clinton was super, super overqualified for the presidency, and people were like, yeah, that's what happens when you're a woman, is you're overqualified and then you don't get it, right? So, in applying for jobs, I'm trying to take the approach of cis white dudes who just apply even if they don't meet every last requirement, because there's still a chance that you could get it. But frankly, that just gives me anxiety. And then like, when the listings are like, oh, requires two years of desk experience, I'm like, well, I don't want to make it seem like I'm not respecting that requirement…
KAYLA: But I will apply anyway
SARAH: Or make it seem like I don't have reading comprehension skills. And so, I feel like I just can't apply to that. So, my brain is just fighting itself. Also, why did I decide to enter an industry where it is so difficult to make it? I'm a dumb.
KAYLA: You're not a dumb.
SARAH: If any of our listeners work in TV…
KAYLA: This is literally the same thing I did when I was looking for a job
SARAH: Or film writing or development or any of the above, and you're in LA, and you need an assistant who is aro-ace as fuck for the love of God, please hire me.
KAYLA: She's there. She's ready.
SARAH: Please. If any of our listeners know people who work in Hollywood, put me into contact with them, man.
KAYLA: Do it. You won't. I dare you.
SARAH: Thank you for the rest of life.
KAYLA: You'll get a free shirt if Sarah gets the job. If you get Sarah a job, you can have any merch you want.
SARAH: We'll send you a free shirt.
KAYLA: On us. This is a contest now.
SARAH: My joos is bread. I like bread. As a concept, as a taste, I think it's good.
KAYLA: Yeah, that's a good one.
SARAH: Also, I saw the movie 1917 last night.
KAYLA: Is it good?
SARAH: It was good. It's visually just a very stunning movie.
KAYLA: I have so many movies to see.
SARAH: Because it was shot to make it look like it was done in one shot.
KAYLA: Oh.
SARAH: So, the editing is incredible because it's all invisible editing. Cinematography is nice. Did we need another movie about white men during the World War? Maybe not. But was it a good movie anyway? Yes. And it made me realize that holy fuck, wars are so pointless.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: People are just dying for no good fucking reason.
KAYLA: For no good reason.
SARAH: Anyway, that's my beef and my juice that turned into beef again. My beef is wars.
KAYLA: Shocking. What are you going to do?
SARAH: Um, wow, okay. Hit us up on our social media @SoundsFakePod. If you want to tell us about your beef, your juice, tell us whether or not we can chuck rotten tomatoes at people who out other people.
[00:40:00]
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: You can also support us on Patreon. We mentioned this last week and we mentioned this on our Patreon. But we have changed the perks a little bit just because we had so many wonderful patrons and it got to be a lot to say all of your names at the end. So, we have decided to no longer say the $2 patrons’ names except for if they're new. So, if they're new, we will say your name. But we'll just do that for one week. So, we said a couple new names last week. So just FYI. So, I'm going to start with the $5 patrons now. Are you ready?
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: Okay. Jennifer Smart, Astritha Vinnakota, Austin Le, Drew Finney, Perry Fiero, Dee, Megan Rowell, Quinn Pollock, Emily Collins, Tim, BookMarvel, ChangelingMX, Derek and Karissa, Simona Simon, and Eric Zezo, Zago. We never figured, Eric, I never figured it out. I'm sorry. Our $10 patrons are Kevin and Tessa @dirtyunclekevin, @tessa_m_k, Arceness who would like to promote The Trevor project, Benjamin Ybarra who would like to promote Tabletop Games, Anonymous who would like to promote Halloween, Sarah McCoy who would like to promote a Podcast from a Planet Weird, my Aunt Jeannie who would like to promote Christopher's Haven, our $15 patrons are Nathaniel White and NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com, my mom Julie who would like to promote Free Mom Hugs, Sarah Jones who is @Eternallolli Everywhere, and Dragonfly who would like to promote the Burbank Airport for providing all sorts of plane noises during this podcast.
KAYLA: Oh, I think Dragonfly also wants to promote my D&D podcast Into the Gridge because we just started a new arc…
SARAH: Wow
KAYLA: And it's very exciting and also my character is asexual so.
SARAH: Lit. And she can't read.
KAYLA: That's right. She can't… well, that's the drama of it.
SARAH: She pretends to not be able to read.
KAYLA: Don't, don’t say, shh, spoilers. Just kidding, everyone knows. It's a whole thing.
SARAH: Okay, no I won't cut that out. Brenda.
KAYLA: Don’t cut out. It's the intrigue. Brenda Pizza. My character, Sarah doesn't even listen, she knows all of it.
SARAH: I know, I know. I've never listened to it. Sorry, Kayla.
KAYLA: Support me more than Sarah does. 2k, 2k20, wait, whoa.
SARAH: 2k20?
KAYLA: 2k20? That sounds terrible.
SARAH: Yeah, it does.
KAYLA: I hate it.
SARAH: 2k2k would be 2000, 2000. That's wrong.
KAYLA: That's, sure, what is it? 2k20? That's terrible.
SARAH: 2k20.
KAYLA: Ugh, disgusting. I hate it. Thank you.
SARAH: 2020, or as Barbara Walters says, 2020.
KAYLA: Oh, good.
SARAH: Thanks for listening. Tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows.
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]