Sounds Fake But Okay

Ep 122: Aros and Aces Need Safe Queer Spaces

March 01, 2020 Sounds Fake But Okay
Sounds Fake But Okay
Ep 122: Aros and Aces Need Safe Queer Spaces
Show Notes Transcript

Hey what's up hello! This week, Sarah delivers a manifesto about the need for queer spaces that are safe for aros and aces. We're searching for an ideal world where aspec and arospec folks are openly and overtly accepted in queer communities. 

Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/aros-and-aces-need-safe-queer-spaces     

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[00:00:00]

SARAH: Hey what's up, hello! welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl I'm Sarah that's me 

KAYLA: And a demi-straight girl that's me Kayla 

SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else that we just don't understand 

KAYLA: On today's episode, queer spaces 

BOTH: Sounds Fake But Okay 

[Intro Music]

SARAH: Welcome back to the pod 

KAYLA: M’itochondria 

SARAH: Is the powerhouse of the cell 

KAYLA: I feel like there's no way I haven't done that one before but here we are 

SARAH: I don't know were you in the group chat where there's that test about being a genius and every single test was just mitochondria question?

KAYLA: I don't know it doesn't sound very familiar but I also have no memory 

SARAH: Miranda sent it to a group chat I was in and I can't remember if it was the one with you or not 

KAYLA: There's many a group chat with the same people except like minus one so 

SARAH: Yeah like there's just like one person swapped out so 

KAYLA: Yes 

SARAH: Amazing. Anyway, some housekeeping kids, let's keep this house 

KAYLA: Okay what are yours? 

SARAH: Um next week… 

KAYLA: Oh yeah 

SARAH: We're going to not have a podcast 

KAYLA: Oops 

SARAH: For reasons of Kayla is going to be on vacation, my sister's going to be visiting me, and we still have a three-hour time difference 

KAYLA: This is our first inaugural… we're recording this at 8 p.m. Sarah time and 11 p.m. me time and when I tell you I'm so tired… 

SARAH: On a weeknight 

KAYLA: On a weeknight, it's up… my… to be honest that's how all my podcasts are, my D&D podcast Into the Gridge, take a listen, we start recording at 10 and go till midnight, so. I guess this is the life of a content creator 

SARAH: Sure, it is 

KAYLA: Anyway, we deserve a vacation 

SARAH: We sure do, I mean I'm not getting one but you are 

KAYLA: I am and I deserve it is what I'm saying to you I'm going to Disney World, anyone who is going to be in Disney World next week 

SARAH: It's going to be Mickey 

KAYLA: Hit me up 

SARAH: Uh Mickey should hit you up

KAYLA: Yeah, he should 

SARAH: So, no pod next week we will see you I guess you will hear us on oh my God it's the Ides of March, March 15th is when we’ll be back

KAYLA: Oh shit, wow dramatic 

SARAH: What other updates do we have?

KAYLA: Uh my updates were just to say hello to all of our new listeners because… 

SARAH: Hi 

KAYLA: The last time we recorded it was before our article came out but the episode came out after is very confusing and dramatic but now it's actually out and we saw everything in some really cool places have been like sharing it and it has just been very cool our Discord has been popping 

SARAH: Popping 

KAYLA: Uh so it's exciting so hello welcome 

SARAH: Hello, just for you new listeners we're taking a week off 

KAYLA: You are just in time for… listen it gives them time to binge the backlog 

SARAH: Yeah, work on the backlog 

KAYLA: We're doing it on purpose out of respect for them so that they don't get overwhelmed by our over 100 episodes 

SARAH: And not because Kayla is going to see Mickey 

KAYLA: No, honestly, I might not even see him, we're not going to Magic Kingdom. We're going to everything but Magic Kingdom to be honest. 

SARAH: Mickey is everywhere, you're going to see him, continue 

KAYLA: That's so true, um hello welcome while we were gone just listen to some old ones and tell us your favorite, what was my other one? Oh my other one was unexpectedly the part of last week's episode that just everyone really latched on to was us or anyone getting a piece of Ireland and listen we've gotten the christening, the approval from the asexuality groups of Ireland so our next Patreon goal when we hit getting 300 a month from patreon we're going to buy a square foot of Ireland 

SARAH: And it's going to be the asexual aromantic demisexual capital of the world 

KAYLA: Yes, um so if you're not a patron already patreon.com… 

SARAH: Help us buy Ireland. That's my homeland.

KAYLA: And they said it was okay, I thought they were going to be angry and they weren't so listen… 

SARAH: I also like how AVEN straight up tagged them 

KAYLA: I was… I almost tweeted… yeah AVEN tagged them and was like it's time to get the Irish asexuality groups involved and I almost tweeted back and was like mom stop embarrassing in front of… us in front of all of Ireland, yes. So, listen even if you just want to donate a dollar to us on a real note it just helps us like actually pay for things we need to make the podcast but on an unreal note it also helps us buy a square foot of Ireland and that's what the people want and it's not my fault 

SARAH: It’s what the people want 

KAYLA: It's truly… 

SARAH: Yeah 

KAYLA: The Twitter got really excited about it, so 

SARAH: Listen we do this in our free time and that means buying Ireland in our free time 

KAYLA: Yeah, if… listen if I have to do this podcast at 11 p.m. on a school night 

SARAH: On a school night? 

KAYLA: School night? 

SARAH: You’re a fucking adult 

KAYLA: Doesn't make it not a school night 

SARAH: That's true, actually it is a school night, my mom doesn't have… or it's not a school night, my mom has a snow day tomorrow 

KAYLA: I know, a bunch of people in Michigan have snow days, it rained here today it has just been raining, anyway this is nothing 

SARAH: It has been sunny here, I live in California. Anyway.

KAYLA: This is nothing 

SARAH: Kayla what are we talking about this week? 

KAYLA: Uh you know the funny thing is I can't even answer that one because you tried to explain to me what you wanted to talk about this week several times, I received a video from Sarah while she was on her commute I… there's a letter… essay…

SARAH: For the record I was never going more than five miles an hour when I was recording this video and I was in LA traffic the whole time 

KAYLA: She’s in LA traffic, it's fine. Um I get a lot of Snapchats from Sarah while commuting it's a great… a great… 

SARAH: Only at safe times 

KAYLA: Only at safe times, everyone calm down, um yeah so Sarah tried to explain it to me I don't even know how many times and I still can't wrap my head around it today so I don't know Sarah what are we talking about this week? 

SARAH: Okay are you ready? Okay so I texted Kayla and I was like hey I have this idea once again inspired by a fucking fanfiction 

KAYLA: Because Sarah… she does have a life in case you were wondering 

SARAH: I do, I do, I have a life, I go hiking every week

KAYLA: She really does a lot of hiking if you would follow her on Instagram… God you would just follow her you would know 

SARAH: Listen, I was supposed to get dinner with my friend last weekend but he has scarlet fever 

KAYLA: What the fuck was scarlet fever? Who has that these days? 

SARAH: Derek

KAYLA: Oh Derek, he just followed… California friend Derek did just follow us on Twitter 

SARAH: Oh, did he? Thanks Derek

KAYLA: Yeah, and I was like why do I recognize… 

SARAH: I don’t think he listens but thanks Derek 

KAYLA: Well, he follows our Twitter and I was like why do I know that face? And I was like oh it's California friend Derek 

SARAH: Amazing, anyway um where was I? oh I texted Kayla and I was like I have this idea I'm going to write up much stuff about it just FYI it's about queer spaces if you want to think of any things about that and she was like what the fuck does that mean? 

KAYLA: Well, because we've done an episode loosely about that before so I was like make sure it's not yeah and Sarah was like don't worry it's not but then I was like but then what is it? 

SARAH: Yeah, it's a lot more like a romantic base, here… I'm just going to have to explain it okay so I wrote up basically an essay, we're going to go through it 

KAYLA: And I did nothing, everything is as it should be 

SARAH: Um okay 

KAYLA: Because I did a lot of tweeting this week okay get off my back? 

SARAH: I wasn't on your back 

KAYLA: I'm on my back, I'm telling… listen 

SARAH: There are no piggyback rides on this fucking podcast 

KAYLA: God damn it 

SARAH: Banned

KAYLA: Okay, that's a little extreme 

SARAH: Anyway, I was reading a fucking Schitts Creek fanfiction 

KAYLA: Shocking 

SARAH: Um this one BT dubs was genuinely novel length, would you like to guess how many words it was? 

KAYLA: A hundred thousand

SARAH: 230K 

KAYLA: How fast did you read that? 

SARAH: It took me several days 

KAYLA: Okay, that's good to hear 

SARAH: Um first for a reference point for those of you who don't often gauge book length by word count, that's longer than every Harry Potter book except for Order of the Phoenix 

KAYLA: Sarah, really? what are you doing? 

SARAH: I was unproductive over the weekend, um… 

KAYLA: Really 

SARAH: But essentially this fucking fanfiction explored the character of Patrick, who is a gay man, but he realized like late-ish in life that he was gay because canonically he's like a solid 30 before he really accepts his gayness or comes out at all and part of the plot of this fucking fanfiction, I say fucking fanfiction not to speak down to fanfiction but because I think it's funny that I keep getting inspiration for pod topics from fucking fanfiction 

KAYLA: I agree. Well, listen, they got to come from somewhere. 

SARAH: They got to come from somewhere. And part of the plot involves this LGBTQ2AIP+ group. 

KAYLA: What's the two? 

SARAH: I think queer and then questioning. 

KAYLA: Sure. 

SARAH: Like it's Q2. 

KAYLA: Oh, I see. 

[00:10:00]

SARAH: The absurdness of the length of the name is a bit of a gag. The joke is that it started as just the L and expanded from there. But you know, you got to do what you got to do. The character of Ronnie, who per season 6 is canonically queer, she started this group and it's going on for like 25 years. So, going to this group, they meet up once a month, becomes such an important part of Patrick's growth in the fic in a way that it does track with canon. It's not like it's a whole other thing, it makes sense. And one of the things that's mentioned over the course of the fic is that several people ask, like, okay, this… the show takes place in a small like rural town, and how did this small town end up being such a bastion for queer folks? Because as I've mentioned on this pod before, on Schitt's Creek, they don't show homophobia. It's all just accepted, and people can still struggle with their identities or their relationships or whatever, but there's just no open homophobia in this town. 

KAYLA: Mm-hmm

SARAH: And so, a lot of people may ask, how did you end up getting here? And the reasoning given in this fic was because of Ronnie, because Ronnie, the person who founded this group, was constantly doing everything she could to give any queer people she met a leg up. And it was specifically mentioned that she did that regardless of whether she liked them personally and… because there's also a joke in the show where she doesn't like Patrick and says he looks like a thumb. 

KAYLA: Oh, me too. 

SARAH: But that really stood out to me, the idea that you have to help each other. Of course, you do, you do it for the community, you do it for everyone. It's about building this space for anyone and everyone and throughout the fic, David, who is Patrick's boyfriend, partner, Emily, my sister, stop listening for the next 15 seconds, now his fiancée. Okay, Emily, you can listen now. 

KAYLA: Of course 

SARAH: She just started the show, so

KAYLA: Wow, I'm telling her

SARAH: At first, David identifies as pansexual. And throughout the fic, David refuses to go with Patrick to these monthly meetings. Not like, fuck you, I'm not going, but like that's not really his scene, he doesn't really want to. And it has nothing to do with his comfort in his pansexuality. He's very comfortable in his sexuality. It's just, if you watch the show, you probably understand this, but that's just the kind of thing where, as a character, somewhere like that where you talk about being queer and feelings and shit and tell stories about your life with a bunch of other people is just not his scene. But at the end of this fic, sorry, I'm trying to make sure the line is clear between canon and fic. At the end of the fic, Patrick hosts the event for that month, and David actually stays for it, and he has a good time. And he's like, okay, I'm not going to come every time necessarily, but that space was still good for him, and it was open for him when he decided he wanted to attend. And it was just very powerful to me that like David felt that way, like after two years of Patrick offering to bring him and David always saying no, like he finally chooses to stick around of his own volition and like it's good for him. He has a good experience. And by the end of this fanfiction, I personally felt so connected to this queer group in like a fictional fanfiction about a fictional show. And like, oh, my God, my mic just fell over. 

KAYLA: Wow, that was intense. 

SARAH: Okay, we're back. Sorry, I dropped, my microphone fell over and then it wouldn't reconnect. And Kayla, as Kayla said, I dropped the mic. 

KAYLA: She did. She got so excited. She dropped the mic. 

SARAH: I also dropped the ball because our mics are a snowball print. 

KAYLA: That was bad. 

SARAH: Okay, anyway, okay, by the end of this fic, I felt very connected to this queer group. Like, I felt like it made my life better somehow, like just reading about it in this, you know, again, this fictional thing that's based on another fictional thing. Um, and all of this is to say, the reason I give all of this background about the plot of this fucking fanfiction is that it got me thinking about queer spaces. Because I have never been drawn to them. I'm not repelled by them, necessarily. They're just, like, I'm kind of like David in the fact that they're just, like, not really my scene. And which is, I know, ironic to some people who might be listening to this because I have a fucking podcast about it, especially those of you who are new listeners and are like, you literally just, whatever, go with it, kids. Um… 

KAYLA: We've talked about it before. If you'd only listened to the backlog, you would know. 

SARAH: Um, and part of the reason for that, I think, is because I'm Aro-Ace. Because queer spaces are often alienating for us, um, because they can be very sexualized. This is something we've talked about before. And I think one of the reasons that this fictional group really spoke to me was that it was not sexualized at all in any way. It was just a bunch of queer people being openly queer, hanging out, and like, telling stories about their lives. And it was a place where aspec people… there were no like, canon aspec characters, but, um, it was still very obviously there, like, there's an A in the acronym, like, it's a place where like, aspec people were openly accepted, and there was a place for them that wasn't like, just tacked on, like, it was a place where they could exist without any fear of being rejected because of their identity. And I think for a lot of ace people because asexuality is not accepted in all queer spaces as a queer identity, that means that even queer spaces aren't necessarily safe for them. Like, even in queer spaces, there's a valid fear of being rejected because of their identity. And I think me seeing how open this group was and like how, like this fucking fanfiction based on a fucking TV show, like, has allowed me to see like how good it could be. And that's like, one of the things that Dan Levy, the showrunner, who also plays David, is like, he wants to show the world as it should be. Like, that's why there's no homophobia and stuff. And I was like, I had always thought that was like, cool. But because like, none of the characters on the show are ace or aro, I was just like, oh, cool. But then I was like, reading this fucking fanfiction. And then I was like, wow, I feel things. 

KAYLA: I do understand the topic now. 

SARAH: Do you? Good. 

KAYLA: I have things to say about it. 

SARAH: Oh, okay. This is a good stopping point or a good pausing point for me. So, say your things. 

KAYLA: Okay, I was just going to say it makes me think of when I first moved to Connecticut into New Haven, I was like looking up, like if there was a local like LGBT center or anything like that. And I remember thinking before I moved, I was like, yeah, I'm like totally going to go if they have like, like they had like game nights and stuff. I was like, yeah, I'm like definitely going to go and like that's going to be a way I can like meet people. And then once I got here, the actual thought of going and the fear of like, oh, but they aren't going to accept like ace people or they won't like be okay with me being there like kept me from ever going. 

SARAH: Yeah 

KAYLA: And yeah, I mean, I just think that like, yeah, and then I… in an ideal world, it would be very obvious where like… that a place accepted people of all sexualities, but I think it's not there yet

SARAH: Like this is like a safe space for all queer people. It's not like there's like a little ace corner where things are less sexualized. Like not all queer spaces have to be very sexualized. 

KAYLA: Right. But I even think like, like I know our alma mater, University of Michigan, like they have like a lot of clubs for different sexualities. And I think they do have like an ace meetup. 

SARAH: They do 

KAYLA: And to me, like, it just shows you that like, oh, this organization as a whole accepts ace people because they have this smaller group. So, it's okay for me to go to larger group things too, you know, just like making and like, obviously not every center or program is going to have the resources or the people to have a group for every sexuality, like obviously, but just like, going through the effort to like, share resources for a bunch of different sexualities or like, just make it very clear that like everyone is okay here. Like, I think if I had seen something like that, I would have been much more comfortable going. 

[00:20;00]

SARAH: Mm-hmm. And like, again, you don't have to have, as you have said, like, not everyone has the resources to have like specific groups for everything. But as long as you're clear about like, be specific about like, people are like, we welcome everyone, be specific. Like, it's always going to be hard to name every single thing. But it might help you to try because when people are like, oh, I accept everyone. I'm like, but do you even know who I am? Like, do you even know what this means? 

KAYLA: Like, yeah, that's the thing is like, I don't even know… when you walk into these places, especially like, a lot of these people, like, especially like, off of college campuses, it's people outside of our generation that are like, running things. I think like, the older you look into a generation, just the less they know about asexuality, just because it is such like, a recent movement to like, put it into the like, public eye. And it is so much on the internet that like, yeah, and I'd like, of course there's not going to be enough resources to do everything, but like, how hard is it to like make a resource page for a couple of different sexualities, you know? 

SARAH: We did it. 

KAYLA: We did it. And I'm… 

SARAH: We made a resource page. 

KAYLA: And we… this isn't even our job. 

SARAH: Yep. 

KAYLA: Anyway, yeah, like, I totally… I get what you mean, because I think it can be just very daunting from the outside, especially because there is such a bad history of the queer community in general not accepting ace people or aro people, that it's just like, terrifying. 

SARAH: Well, yeah, and there is kind of this sense, for me at least, that like, if I'm in an unfamiliar space, if it's like an unfamiliar straight space versus an unfamiliar queer space, and if I'm just like, by myself, to be honest, I might feel more comfortable in the straight one just because I can be straight passing. Whereas if you're in a queer space, people are, you know, they're going to assume you're queer and they might ask you about it, and then if you tell them you're aro ace and they're like, oh, I don't believe that that's really queer, holy shit, sorry, sirens. I was trying to talk through it. 

KAYLA: They're coming to arrest the aphobe 

SARAH: That's so true. And so, I might feel less comfortable in that queer space than I would in a straight space, and that sucks. Like, as a queer person, that sucks. 

KAYLA: Yeah, I don't think I ever... I don't know. I don't know that I've ever... well, I don't know. Yeah, I think it's hard going into a space that's explicitly queer and knowing if it's going to be okay. Like, places that aren't explicitly queer, like our theater group, it's like... it's not like being queer is a recommendation. It's just... 

SARAH: It's a requirement, you mean? 

KAYLA: Oh, what did I say? Recommendation? 

SARAH: Recommendation. 

KAYLA: I mean, listen, I always recommend being queer. 

SARAH: It's recommended for all people to be queer. 

KAYLA: I mean, I think so. I mean, listen, it's not a requirement, but it just happens. But places where it's like, to be in this club, you're going to be queer, that's just very scary. And I can imagine that being scary for… 

SARAH: You have to come out. Like, you're being forced to come out. 

KAYLA: Yeah, and I can imagine that's scary even for people who are questioning of any identity. Of just like, I don't know if I'm gay. I'm still questioning, can I go to this place? You know? 

SARAH: Right. Like, what if it turns out I'm not? I would have to leave. Like, you know? 

KAYLA: Yeah

SARAH: yeah. Can I go into the next part of my essay? 

KAYLA: You may. 

SARAH: Okay, so I've also been thinking about aromanticism a lot more recently because of Aro Awareness Week and the interview we did with them. And I think another part of the reason why I don't feel drawn to queer spaces is because even within the ace umbrella, even under that umbrella, as an Aro-Ace, I am in the minority. And the way I experience life is so far removed from every single other alloromantic person on the planet, which is by far most people, that even in ace spaces, I often don't feel as though I'm understood. And I think one of the cons of the umbrella, including so many different identities with it embracing like the split model of attraction and that sort of thing, is that it fragments us some. And aspec people are already all so far removed from allosexuals generally just because, you know, the alienation that comes with like society being like, sex, wonderful relationships. And that means that to be further removed from other people, even within the community as a person who is aromantic can be isolating and hard. I have some thoughts on this. You might be seeing them somewhere in the nearest future. 

KAYLA: Uh, tea

SARAH: But I think that… because the aro-ace community, if you could even call it that, I probably wouldn't call it a community. Just because it's... 

KAYLA: Wow, drama. 

SARAH: No. I don't mean that in like a... 

KAYLA: Well, she's… any of you…

SARAH: It’s not a real community. I just mean like... 

KAYLA: You heard it here. 

SARAH: There doesn't feel like one distinct aro-ace community, you know? 

KAYLA: Sure. Well, yeah, it's very hard because so many... Like you said, the ace community in some ways is so fragmented that to me, because you are the closest person to me that's ace, I find myself assuming that most ace people are aro, even though that's by the statistics not true. So, it's hard to remember that that isn't the case in that community, if it, you know, whatever exists, blah blah blah, whatever. It's very, very small. 

SARAH: Yeah. And so, I think because it is so small, by that I mean like the aro-ace quote unquote community, I felt reticent to want to get into it. And part of it, and this is like so dumb, but it was like, what if I like didn't really like the people I met? Like what if being aro-ace was the only thing we actually have in common and we don't vibe? 

KAYLA: That’s fair 

SARAH: It's a really dumb fear, but like it's genuine. 

KAYLA: No, I don’t think that’s dumb at all 

SARAH: It seems really surface level, I think is what bothers me about it, but I still feel it, so 

KAYLA: I mean, I don't think it is surface level though, because obviously your romantic or sexual orientation is a huge part of you, but it's also like at the same time not. Like it doesn't dictate your personality or what you're interested in. Like I think that completely makes sense. And it's easier for people in sexuality, like communities that are bigger, the gay community is huge. Like you're going to find…

SARAH: You're going to find some gays who fucking hate each other.  

KAYLA: Yeah, but you're also going to find people that you like. But if you scale down the community that much, it's going to become harder and harder to find people that you like not just as members of your sexuality cohort, but of people that you actually enjoy. 

SARAH: Right. And I guess the reason that this fic kind of got me thinking about that was because the way Ronnie, the person who ran the group, the way she looked at it was like, it doesn't matter what I think of this person personally. I'm still going to help them and include them in this group. And that kind of changed my perspective on this whole thing. Like it wasn't just that it was open to everyone. It was like she was actively inviting everyone, even if she didn't fucking like them. And that kind of made me think like, okay, it doesn't fucking matter if I become best friends forever with every last Aro-Ace person I ever meet. What matters is that we have a space. 

KAYLA: Mm-hmm 

SARAH: And we don't have to talk about being Aro-Ace all the time. In fact, I would rather we not. But having that space matters. And because of my recent epiphanies regarding representation, hit up our Little Women episode, if you want to hear me talk about more Schitt's Creek fanfiction but I realized that it matters not just to be seen, but also to be understood. And it matters to make yourself understood. And communities like this give us safety nets where people do kind of inherently understand a certain aspect of us. You know, queer people are constantly coming out. Every fucking day, we have to navigate coming out, whether we should do it, whether it's safe to do it, whether we feel comfortable doing it, how we should go about it, how people might react. But in that LGBTQ2AIP+ group, like for once in your life in that queer group, you don't have to worry about it. Like it doesn't matter how you identify or if you're even sure where you fall in a group like the group in this fanfiction. All that matters is that you land somewhere under this queer umbrella and for that reason, you're welcome here and this place is safe for you. And I was like, wow, that seems nice I wonder where I can find that. And in thinking about this and in doing the article with them and with Aro Awareness Week, it made me realize that you know, people really responded to that article we did and it was very cool and it made me realize that I do have that reach and I can help to make that space for Aro folks. 

[00:30:00]

SARAH: And yes, I know we have our Discord but I don't spend a ton of time in it for a lot of reasons. I'm fucking busy for one. 

KAYLA: Oh, oh 

SARAH: But also, because, yeah, I know, right? I remember one time we were both in Discord at the same time and someone was like, we caught both of them. 

KAYLA: It rarely happens. 

SARAH: It rarely happens. But also, just because like, even though it's my fucking podcast, like I've never really felt fully comfortable in those types of spaces, like queer spaces. And it's not anyone's fault, really. Like it's just… it's just how it is. And in college, I was always like, oh, I should go to the meetings that the Spectrum Center puts on for aspec folks, as Kayla mentioned earlier on. But I never did, because like something about it just seems like too scary and overwhelming for me to make it worth what I'd have to put myself through in terms of my own like mental health and my own mental blocks to go. Because, yes, it was a group where I knew it was safe for me to go. But I was also just like, I don't necessarily just want to talk about my sexuality. Like I don't… like I want just to be able to go to a safe space and do what the fuck ever. And doing this podcast has been amazing. But what we do for visibility still feels so sequestered. Like we're in our little corner and the only people who find us are the people who come looking for us. And visibility is important to me, but it's not just about people knowing who we are and what that means, but it's about us being welcomed in queer spaces. Like not just accepted, but welcomed in that there is a space that is made for us. You know, a space where we can stand alongside all sorts of other queer folks and we can all feel comfortable and safe as though we belong. So, then I was like, how do we do that? Here's my answer. I don't know. 

KAYLA: Oh man, all that for nothing. 

SARAH: I know, right? I'm not sure how to do that. I would like to do it, but I don't know how. But what I can tell you is that the one thing that is important is that in creating those spaces, platonic relationships are so important in all of that. Not just for arospec, aspec people, I'm just talking about like in creating these open queer spaces. So much of queerness is often about romance and sex and rightly so because that's kind of the basis of queerness, right? Like you're different because of the way you experience romantic and sexual attraction. But aromanticism aside, the platonic bonds that queer folks make with each other are so important. They're what built this community. They're what built everything we have. They're the reason it's a community to begin with. So, it really shouldn't be all that hard to make room for aro folks, because as much as so many of the existing queer spaces don't speak to me, a space where all queer people can just hang out, and yes, it's about being queer, but it's really just about being a human person and caring about other people and sharing stories whether they're queer or not, like that does interest me. The reason I don't feel drawn to queer spaces is right now, is because I feel like they don't feel like that to me. But the concept of this group and this fucking fanfiction like it does appeal to me and that's what I want. And I'm not sure if this episode of the pod is a roadmap or a handbook or a rant or a manifesto, vote now on your phones, but I think queer spaces do matter. And spaces where the David Roses and the Me's of the world feel comfortable just existing out loud, where it's not about how queer you are or how much you have struggled or, you know, how comfortable you are talking about gay sex or how comfortable you are with wearing glitter or flannel or shaving a slice out of your eyebrow like the cool queer kids do these days. It's just about being accepting and kind humans together and I'd like to build that. I don't really know how but I'd like to end of essay. 

KAYLA: I do… That was a very good essay. 

SARAH: Thank you.

KAYLA: I liked your essay. But I think like there's a lot of points in that that I really resonate with. I think like what's so daunting for a lot of people because I think there, I don't want to say there's like two types of queer people because that's obviously not true, but I feel like there's a large amount of queer people who are like they really want to talk about it. Like so many of the people who follow us on Twitter, like their Twitter bio says like ace in it and their profile picture is like the ace flag and like that's a big, and maybe those are you know their second Twitter account or whatever, but that's what they're talking about. 

SARAH: They're here because it matters to them. Like they're so involved in this podcast because it's important to them. 

KAYLA: Right. And I think like there's on the one end of the spectrum there's that and on the other end there’s people, like you who are like yes, I’m queer but like I don't necessarily want to talk about it all the time, not because it's not important to me, but just like that's not me, that's not who I am. Like it makes sense to… 

SARAH: Says a person who has a podcast about asexuality. In my defense I stumbled into it. 

KAYLA: Yes, to be fair we did this on an episode and also like that's just kind of a facet of your personality. You don't talk about personal things all that often. 

SARAH: Yeah. 

KAYLA: So, you know like I think it can be hard because like these queer spaces usually they are built upon the idea that you're going to come here and talk about your queerness because you can't talk about it anywhere else, which is great obviously. Like there needs to be those spaces where people can just go and talk about it because a lot of times there aren't other safe spaces to talk about it, but that does make it hard for people who are like, hey I just want to like be here and chill. Yeah. 

SARAH: Yeah. I'm exhausted after reading that essay that I wrote three days ago. 

KAYLA: Let's start a club that's just about chilling. 

SARAH: Okay.

KAYLA: Okay. 

SARAH: Like a villain or just chilling? 

KAYLA: Just chilling. 

SARAH: Okay, cool. 

KAYLA: I do think, yeah, like what you said about like it's so… I think it's especially hard for aromantic people because like the basis of someone being queer is the way that they have sex or the way that they experience romance. And so, it's like obviously that's what people are going to be talking about because that's like one of the main ways that they're different. And I think it's also hard because like something I noticed with like the queer friends I have at work like they'll go and they'll like get… like they'll go get beers together after work or whatever and have there like queer lady time and they’ll like have inside jokes and I usually understand them all because I am at this point so imbued in queer culture even though I still feel like I'm on the outskirts. I've talked about it before it's a very weird thing but that's the thing and we've talked about this before of like is there an ace culture? And I think a lot of other sexualities there are and a lot of times you know they're stereotypes and they're jokes of like cuff jeans and flannel and piercings and whatever and like obviously a lot of them are stereotypes but a lot of other sexualities have this idea of like a culture, they have these  inside jokes or like these kind of things that like all people of this identity will kind of like have this inside understanding of and I feel like because asexuality and aromanticism as like a community is so young that like it's not there yet. 

SARAH: We haven't established that. 

KAYLA: And… which is kind of frustrating because you see other people and you're having that you're like I want that. But it's just not quite there. 

SARAH: Yeah. Yeah. Fucking rip. 

KAYLA: It's just so odd like and I think I talked a lot about this in like the demisexual episode but like someone at work yesterday was asking one of the queer girls at work like what does it mean that like gays can't sit correctly? You...

SARAH: Yeah, I'm just thinking about how I'm sitting right now. 

KAYLA: But you know but you know the meme, right? 

SARAH: I do. 

KAYLA: And I was like… and these were like some straight people asking and also like a bit older so not super on the internet as much as us at least. And I was like I know the answer to this. I know the entire culture but like I'm not quite there. Like, I don't feel like I'm included in all of these like inside jokes and these whatever because it's like are we in these spaces or aren’t we? Like if we make these jokes, it’s like meh, you know?

SARAH: Yeah, yeah, like I don't… I've never been to a gay bar partially because I don't drink and I don't care about bars partially because I wouldn't feel comfortable in one. 

KAYLA: Well, they're very stereotypically very sexual spaces. 

SARAH: Yeah, that's why I would not feel comfortable in them. 

KAYLA: That is… that is I think a big unfortunate thing is obviously people can express their sexuality however they want and I think like it is great that people are able to be very openly sexual as gay people because then it's just kind of like… I don't want to say shoving it in people's faces but it is good to be like no you have to look at me doing this. 

SARAH: Yeah, you get to be as out and open as all the fucking straight couples of the world. 

KAYLA: Yeah, which I think… 

SARAH: Which I fuck a lot in this episode, I have feelings, continue. 

[00:40:00]

KAYLA: Fuck. Which like I think is a really cool act of rebellion to be like no you have to look at me being sexual and like doing these kind of like outlandish and outrageous things which I think for the queer community is a really big just kind of like way of putting a point across but for like asexual people or people that just like aren't as in it into that it's it is a little alienating. 

SARAH: I'm going to be aggressively asexual. Like how do you even do that? 

KAYLA: You like can't because like it reminds me of the episode we did with Yasmin where she was like it's a lack of something. 

SARAH: Yeah 

KAYLA: Like how do you express something that isn't quite there? 

SARAH: Yeah, it's hard to define yourself by a lack of something and even if you're not trying to define your entire person it's hard to define any part of you by a lack of something. 

KAYLA: Yeah. 

SARAH: When the standard apparently in society is to have something there. 

KAYLA: Yeah, it just kind of like removes an entire conversation point of like okay you go into this queer space everyone is talking about their queer relationship or like when did whatever happen in this you know whatever and like you have the exact opposite of that. Like you know what I mean? 

SARAH: It's also… like it's hard to come out in a natural way um when you're aro, aspec… 

KAYLA: Because you can't just be like I have a girlfriend and also I'm a girl and everyone is like oh she's gay. 

SARAH: Exactly like I was thinking about this recently because you know I recently started a new job I've been talking to my co-workers and stuff and I don't think I've said anything like I haven't tried to hide my sexuality but there has been no reason for it to come up um and today we were talking… and I mentioned I was like oh my sister's girlfriend and I was like okay so I just came out for my sister but I haven't come as myself because… 

KAYLA: That's where you use the podcast Sarah 

SARAH: I know. Uh but like… 

KAYLA: Hey look, I have this thing 

SARAH: I have this thing I have a podcast well I don't like to… I don't like to just walk up to people and be like hey I have a podcast because people fucking hate people who are like that 

KAYLA: Yeah, but also I did tell everyone at work about our article because I was very excited about it, so 

SARAH: I didn't tell anyone 

KAYLA: You put it on Facebook 

SARAH: I don't have any… well I didn't tell anyone at work 

KAYLA: Well, you just started 

SARAH: Yeah

KAYLA: My one work friend put it on her Instagram before I even saw it 

SARAH: Yeah 

KAYLA: Well… 

SARAH: And then I put it on my Instagram story and then I ended up following all the other assistants at work but it was gone from my Instagram story before they followed me that's…

KAYLA: Sad, I had several… now we're just bragging about our article again but I'm really excited about it, um I had several people reach out to me that I haven't talked to in a long time that were like whoa and someone reached out to me who was like oh my god I just listened to your podcast like a of couple weeks ago and didn't know that it was you and then I saw you post this article 

SARAH: Oh my god, that’s wild 

KAYLA: Because apparently some other podcast mentioned us and like she was like it's one of these three podcasts because she was like I had listened to one of these three podcasts and it's one of these three and I know it's not one of them because the episode came out way before we existed and I still have to go back and scrub through them and find it but I guess they like did… they're like episodes about sex and sex or their podcast about sex and sexuality and I guess they had done an episode on asexuality and mentioned us as a resource and she was like yeah like I listened to it a few weeks ago and I didn't know it was you and I was like whoa, it's me 

SARAH: Oh my God, crazy, crazy

KAYLA: Anyway 

SARAH: Amazing yeah, I'd like to have queer spaces that are super queer and awesome for everyone but you know I don't know how to get there if anyone has any ideas 

KAYLA: I think it's good though like oh and I think like the aromantic week and ace week bringing this out a lot is like we had the article with them which is a queer publication they publish things about all sexualities so for us to be included in that and then I know like Yasmin did stuff well I think they're called pink news I think they're a queer media company in the UK and they did a bunch of stuff for aro week which I think like that feels very promising to me that like big like them is big they're run by Conde Nast which is a huge…

SARAH: Well… 

KAYLA: Anyone else here gourmet makes bon appetit fans Claire what's her name that's them 

SARAH: Also, uh Yasmin was involved with a cover for out magazine wasn't she? 

KAYLA: Yeah, and UK pride just announced their theme and she's like in their UK pride's like commercial and was like at their event… 

SARAH: Amazing 

KAYLA: And doing all this stuff with them and so was oh I forgot her name but it's a UK asexual um youtuber Embly? Ah shit I don't remember but she was also there and I think that's like super promising and like the stuff Yasmin did with um pride last year with Budweiser and that kind of stuff like that is very promising to me that like even though there's a lot of annoying people who are still making a fuss about it and you know say all you want about corporate pride I'm not a huge fan but the fact that like big companies are… like it shows me that there's hope for it trickling from the top down, the acceptance, because eventually if all of these big companies and publications and articles are like accepting it and maybe they're just doing it because of strategy because they know that like we'll make a fuss if they don't but no matter why they're doing it like they are and that shows other people that like no these people have a space here we're going to do content about it we're going to promote it and eventually people like aren't going to be able to fight it anymore 

SARAH: Yeah, when you first said that I was like trickle-down economics like doesn't really work and then I was like that's economics 

KAYLA: I had that thought also and I kept saying it anyway 

SARAH: Um yeah I think my one last thing that I think kind of freaks me out about saying this is that I feel like because I'm saying um that like I want this kind of space I feel like it's putting the impetus on me to do it or on us to do it and I don't know that I personally have the bandwidth or the skills or the time to do something like this like the reality is that the impetus is on all of us and it's hard when the quote-unquote community is so small but like we have to make ourselves heard somehow um and I… that's it 

KAYLA: No, I mean I agree and I think a lot of people were like already starting that like I like I think yeah like in the past couple months you know some stuff has happened that has made asexual people unhappy and like people have made a big ruckus and have like changed things and gotten people's attention I think even you know that's kind of their job and they do a really good job of that when like calling stuff out in the media and everything I think just continuing to do that and then doing it even when there isn't a problem like even if there isn't some article that's out that's you know misquoting someone or defining something wrong like getting angry even when there's not necessarily a single thing to be angry about 

SARAH: Mm-hmm. Or like if like if it's like unintentional there's no reason to like go fucking off at people when they made just a genuine mistake like and you going off at them is not going to help 

KAYLA: Yeah, when I say angry I don't mean being nasty I guess I just mean like having the motivation and like a drive to you know 

SARAH: Yeah, that's fair, that’s fair

KAYLA: Yeah 

SARAH: Anything else to add? 

KAYLA: Uh I guess I also just want to like… I don't know just shout out our discord again because I don't want this to seem like we're saying like that's not a good enough place… 

SARAH: Oh yeah, I know. I think it just works better for some people than others 

KAYLA: I think we're just kind of thinking big scale of like hopes and dreams for things in the future and so I just want to shout that out because especially with how many new people have been joining I've seen like really awesome conversations in there the past of couple weeks and I know like I've been a little bit more active the past couple of weeks just because I've been having a rough time so I've kind of popped in to just be like send me pictures of your dogs or like tell me something nice that's happening and it's nice because a lot of times people in there aren't just talking about asexuality or aromanticism they're just like talking about their lives 

SARAH: Oh yeah, oftentimes the times when I do get involved in the discord it's like some random ass fucking topic 

KAYLA: Yeah

SARAH: And like I'm interested 

KAYLA: Yeah, people are just talking like in the past they… we've had like karaoke nights like I think that's a very good example of like a small-scale thing of like what we're talking about that we want of like there is obviously a space to talk about aspec issues and to get advice and to like vent your feelings but it's not just that it's also just like we're all people, we also have these other interests, we're just going to talk about life

[00:50:00]

SARAH: Yeah, and I love that we have kind of created a little an online space for that but I also think we should have like in real life queer spaces that are that open to aspec folks 

KAYLA: I was going to say… I think that's just like the natural next step I think so much of asexuality and aromanticism have been online and maybe that is the nature of like how small the community is and like how few people there are but I think that is like the natural next step is like trying to push for more in-person connections and trying to push for like not having like I think it's amazing that there are so many groups that are like Irish asexuality or like I know Yale here has an asexual group and those I think should always exist so people can like really find their people but just to push for more like LGBT centers and Q centers, queer centers to be inclusive so it's not a necessity to have those offshoot groups that it's just like an added perk. 

SARAH: Yeah, I agree. What's our poll for this week? 

KAYLA: Oh, Jesus. I'm like sweating. 

SARAH: I'm like exhausted from that. 

KAYLA: You did say you had an essay and you did. 

SARAH: I did. Also, I haven't eaten dinner yet. It's 9pm. 

KAYLA: I'm sweaty. It's 12am. 

SARAH: Uh, I don't… I don't know, Kayla. 

KAYLA: Um, we can just do a nice open-ended one. But… Oh, I'm burping. It tastes like pesto. 

SARAH: Um, I thought you… I thought you were going to say that was the burping? Tastes like pesto? Question mark, open. 

KAYLA: Question mark answer, yes. I ate pesto earlier. Welcome everyone new. It's the burp cast. Do you feel welcome in queer spaces as an aspec? 

SARAH: You know, you know what I would like to know? As an aspec person, do you feel more comfortable in straight spaces or in queer spaces? 

KAYLA: I'll make a second one. 

SARAH: I hope the answer is queer spaces, but for me personally, I don't know that it is. 

KAYLA: More safe? 

SARAH: Not safe. 

KAYLA: What do you want me to write? 

SARAH: Comfortable? Not mmm mmm mmm. I guess safe. Yeah. 

KAYLA: Okay. 

SARAH: Okay. Um, so that's our poll. Kayla, what's your beef and your juice this week? 

KAYLA: Uh, let's see. My juice is, do you know who Garrett Watts is? 

SARAH: No. 

KAYLA: I… you probably do. Uh, he used to be on Vine. He's on YouTube. He's like friends with Shane Dawson and that whole group of people, whatever. He's very funny. Um, so he came out with a video this week where he tries to make a song in 24 hours because he's like, I'm a big music fan. I know, I want to know what it takes to make a song. And he's also just like a very manic ADHD person. He reminds me of you. 

SARAH: Mood. 

KAYLA: Um, but so him and his friends who are like music producers and actually know what they're doing, make this like rap song in 24 hours. And it's about just being a baby. Um, and it's very ridiculous that the lyrics are so stupid, but it like actually slaps and is like a very good song. And I, um, I'm going to send you the video and make you watch it because it's just a very funny, like silly, happy video. And then the song, like, it's ridiculous, but it's actually very funny. And one of the guys is like a really good rapper. Um, it's called… oh shoot. It's already like on charts too. It's called now I'm a baby. Um, and it's on… stream it anywhere. And it's just funny. 

SARAH: Oh my God 

KAYLA: It's just a good song. That's my juice. Um, my beef is that it's 12:03 am and I'm not in my bed. Um, and also that I bought my roller skates. If you follow me on Twitter, you know, my saga of my roller skates, but I haven't been able to roll on them because I haven't had time and it's raining. So, I just rolled back and forth through my apartment. 

SARAH: Okay. 

KAYLA: I only fell once. 

SARAH: Happy for you. 

KAYLA: I did capture the falling on video and I almost posted it because it was really funny, but then I decided it was too shameful and I deleted the video. 

SARAH: You deleted the video? 

KAYLA: I know. 

SARAH: Is it like fully gone or is it still in your like recently deleted? 

KAYLA: No, it was like an Instagram. 

SARAH: Oh my god, Kayla. I want to see it so bad. 

KAYLA: It was really funny and I do regret deleting it because like you couldn't see my face or anything because I was recording my feet, but you can hear me. It was, I do regret it. It was a very funny video. 

SARAH: Oh my god. Okay, anyway, my beef. I was going to go off on a rant about Trump. I… for my own sanity, I have to not do that right now. Please vote. Please do whatever you can to get Trump out of office. We have to unite. Unify or Die Fund is a great place to, if you have a couple extra dollars that left over after you've given to our Patreon, you know, Unify or Die Fund. My juice is, and this shocks no one more than me, My juice is the album Lover by Taylor Swift. 

KAYLA: Why? 

SARAH: I don't know. 

KAYLA: Oh

SARAH: I've talked about this on the pod before. I'm neither a stan nor a hater of Taylor Swift. Where I stand with her, where I stand on her, depends on the day. My opinion of her has never been fixed. Sometimes she pisses me off, sometimes I'm like y'all are being dicks to her. I know I'm late to the game, but Lover has some bops. It's the kind of album, at least for me, that like the first time you listen to it, you're like, I don't care. Like I don't hate any of this with a burning passion, and some of it is quite cringey, but also like nothing about this matters to me. My opinion is that like I don't want to have an opinion on this, but then the more you listen to it, the more you realize that some of it is actually like really good, and yeah there are aspects of it that are still really cringey, but like it's an artistically impressive album. I'm not saying Taylor Swift is the best singer in the world, I don't think she is. 

KAYLA: I'm just so sick of it because my boss is like the biggest Taylor Swift stan ever, and so we never not hear about it. 

SARAH: That's fair. 

KAYLA: I just miss why can't she go back to like Teardrops on My Guitar era? 

SARAH: I was thinking about her hair recently. 

KAYLA: Okay. 

SARAH: Um, does she just like get like a Brazilian blowout all the time? Because her hair is naturally that curly, isn't it? 

KAYLA: Well, but also if you look at like the album cover of Teardrops on My Guitar, they don't look like natural curls, they look like she got curled. Also, have you heard the conspiracy theory about like why her first album did so well? 

SARAH: No. 

KAYLA: I'm not saying any of this is true, but I do think it's interesting. So, her first album came out and all of a sudden like really fast hit the charts, which was confusing because she was a nobody. Like why did that happen? 

SARAH: Well, it's because he's the reason that Teardrops on My Guitar, that's why. 

KAYLA: So, well, but the conspiracy theory is so her parents are very rich and so there's a conspiracy theory that her dad just went and bought thousands and thousands and thousands of copies of the album and they're just sitting in a warehouse somewhere. And that's how she hit the charts. 

SARAH: That's like the RNC did for Don Jr's book. 

KAYLA: Mm-hmm 

SARAH: Okay. 

KAYLA: Anyway…

SARAH: Amazing

KAYLA: I'm not saying that's true or anything. I don't want Taylor Swift fans coming to me, but I do just think it's funny. 

SARAH: Uh, okay. Uh, well, tell us about your beef, your juice. Um, don't tell us anything about Taylor Swift @SoundsFakePod. 

KAYLA: Like really don't. I hear too much. I don't care. 

SARAH: Um, uh, @SoundsFakePod everywhere, also we have a Patreon. Patreon.com/SoundsFakePod.

KAYLA: Help us buy Ireland. 

SARAH: Help us buy Ireland and then after that maybe give a couple dollars to the Unify or Die Fund. Just saying. 

KAYLA: No, okay, yes, but then after that give us more money because my next want is for us to adopt a cow. 

SARAH: Sponsor a cow, yeah. Um, okay, our patrons are five… yes, our $5 patrons are Jennifer Smart, Astritha Vinnakota, Austin Le, Drew Finney, Perry Fiero, Dee, Megan Rowell, Quinn, Pollock, Tim Collins, nope, Emily Collins, Tim, BookMarvel, ChangelingMX, Derek and Karissa, Simona Simon, Jamie Jack and Drew Yangy. Our $10 patrons are Kevin and Tessa @dirtyunclekevin @tessa_m_ k, Arcness who would like to promote the Trevor Project, Benjamin Ybarra who would like to promote tabletop games, Anonymous who would like to promote Halloween, Sarah McCoy who would like to promote a podcast from a planet weird, my aunt Jeannie who would like to promote Christopher's Haven, and Cassandra who would like to promote their modeling Instagram @liddowred. 

KAYLA: I was told how to say it right. 

SARAH: We have a new $10 patron... Oh nice. We have a new patron. That's a $10 patron, correct? 

KAYLA: Yes 

SARAH: It's Doug. 

KAYLA: It's Doug, long time very adamant Twitter supporter. Doug. 

SARAH: Doug. 

KAYLA: You remember Doug from the huge campaign to get us to a thousand followers a while back. 

SARAH: Doug, tell us what you want us to promote. 

KAYLA: Doug isn't answering my messages so we're publicly shaming Doug and… but this time Doug is promoting us buying Ireland. 

SARAH: Okay. Our $15 patrons are Nathaniel White, Nathanieljwhitedesigns.com, my mom Julie who would like to promote free mom hugs, Sarah Jones who is @Eternallolli Everywhere, Dia Chappelle who would like to promote the podcast Love and Luck, and Dragonfly who is going to promote eating Girl Scout cookies during the podcast while Kayla is talking but doing it secretly so no one knows. 

KAYLA: I didn't even realize whoa I didn't even know that's really good. 

SARAH: I just picked it spots where like it seemed like you were going on for a while. 

KAYLA: A lot of times I like itch while you're talking. 

SARAH: Thanks for that information. 

KAYLA: I think that my friends will pick up when I'm itching my leg. I'm itching right now tell me if you can hear it. 

SARAH: Okay. Goodbye thanks for listening tune in not next Sunday but the Sunday after that on the Ides of March for more of us in your ears. 

KAYLA: And until then take good care of your cows.

[END OF TRANSCRIPT]