Hey what's up hello! Ghosting. What is it, why is it a thing, and why is Sarah an apologist? There's only one way to find out, besties.
Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/ghosting
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Hey what's up hello! Ghosting. What is it, why is it a thing, and why is Sarah an apologist? There's only one way to find out, besties.
Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/ghosting
Donate: patreon.com/soundsfakepod
Follow: @soundsfakepod
Join: https://discord.gg/W7VBHMt
Buy our book: www.soundsfakepod.com/book
(00:00)
SARAH: Hey what's up hello, welcome to Sounds fake but Okay, a podcast where an aroace girl, I'm Sarah that's me
KAYLA: and a bi demisexual girl, that's me Kayla
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.
KAYLA: On today's episode: ghosting
SARAH AND KAYLA: (laughing) Sounds fake, but okay
(intro music plays)
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod!
KAYLA: Remember when last week we were like "we don't have any housekeeping"?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: We did.
SARAH: Mm. We're big fat liars.
KAYLA: We did, and that housekeeping was that it was our birthday.
SARAH: It was our fifth birthday
KAYLA: And it was even on Sunday, and we just did forget.
SARAH: Listen, here's the thing about dumb bitch disease
KAYLA: We have it.
SARAH: It's incurable
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: It is incurable.
KAYLA: It's terminal, isn't it?
SARAH: And there is no treatment
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And we both have it because it's contagious
KAYLA: Yeah. Who had it first? Hard to say.
SARAH: Hard to say. Well, you did give me pink-eye. Maybe it was transferred in the pink-eye.
KAYLA: Interesting. Well then that means that it's really Adam's fault because Adam from across the hall gave me pink-eye
SARAH: Yeah, Adam. I haven't talked to you in years, but Adam? You gave us dumb bitch disease.
KAYLA: It's all your fault.
SARAH: Anyway
KAYLA: Anyway.
SARAH: Yeah, it was our birthday and we forgot because we are dumb bitches with dumb bitch disease.
KAYLA: Hehehe. But yeah, that it. I don't think we're going to do anything about it
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: We both have a lot going on right now, and I think there's enough things that we're going to celebrate within this year
SARAH: We don't have the bandwidth
KAYLA: There's a lot going on, so.
SARAH: Alright, well, do we have any new housekeeping this week?
KAYLA: I mean I'm hesitant to say no because...
SARAH: We'll just leave the door open, you know?
KAYLA: Who knows what we're going to forget this time
SARAH: As Bruno says –
KAYLA: I'm going to leave the door open
SARAH: (laughing) I'm going to leave the door open
KAYLA: So true, king. The true definition of short king.
SARAH: So true. Okay, let's do a podcast. Kayla, what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: This week, we are talking about the phenomenon
SARAH: Phenomenon
KAYLA: Yes. Of ghosting.
SARAH: Indeed.
KAYLA: It just kind of popped into my head. It felt like a classic episode of like "what are the allos up to?" even though this obviously is not allo specific but just kind of like sounds fake, you know what I'm saying?
SARAH: It also brings an incredible opportunity to do a callback to the fish flag emoji.
KAYLA: Oh, fuck. I forgot about. Wow.
SARAH: And introduce/re-introduce the concept of the fish flag emoji to our audience because I think it's been a while
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And I think those two things go hand in hand
KAYLA: I agree. I just looked up ghosting on Google because I was like "I'm sure there's some think pieces on this"
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: And there were but I also found some very recent political news. So we can discuss that today as well. I don't know if you have a specific order you'd like to go in. I guess we should define ghosting to get us all on the same page.
SARAH: Yeah that'll be a good place to start. What does ghosting mean?
KAYLA: Would you like to?
SARAH: Aw, you're going to make me do it?
KAYLA: What? I was just giving you the option to be polite.
SARAH: We could do rock, paper, scissors.
KAYLA: Okay. Like verbally?
SARAH: Yeah, so you say it.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: You ready?
KAYLA: I've never done this before.
SARAH: It'll be "rock, paper, scissors shoot" and then we say it
KAYLA: And then say it, okay.
SARAH: Yeah, okay. Rock, paper, scissors, shoot!
SARAH AND KAYLA: Rock. Oh no.
(laughter)
KAYLA: Okay, do it again.
SARAH: Rock, paper, scissors, shoot. Rock.
KAYLA: Paper.
SARAH: Aw.
KAYLA: I won, but does that mean I have to do it?
SARAH: (laughing) I don't know.
KAYLA: What does it mean? I'll just do it, whatever.
SARAH: Guys, I need you to know my brain is not in the room
KAYLA: No
SARAH: It's not in the building. I've had a long two days at work
KAYLA: Same.
SARAH: I'm not here. I'm sorry in advance. Let's go.
KAYLA: Honestly though, when you told me that you were going to be having a bad brain day, I've seen you so much worse than this. This is way better than I was anticipating.
05:00
SARAH: Yeah. We'll see where it goes though. We'll see where it goes.
KAYLA: That's so true. So ghosting, I think it's more well-known for being in like dating situations, but I've definitely heard about it – woah! But I've definitely heard about it in friendship situations. We can talk about the differences later because I have some thoughts
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: But it's basically – we'll just take dating for the example. You're talking to someone new, you go on a couple dates, then you're like "hey we should go out again" and they just never answer you. Ever again.
SARAH: Yep.
KAYLA: They don't say "hey, no, I'm not feeling it" or whatever. It's basically when someone just cold turkey removes themselves from your life
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And they're just gone
SARAH: And usually it's when they haven't been in your life very long to begin with
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: It's not your best friend in the world drops off the face of the earth have they been kidnapped situation. It's like a we had a casual thing/situationship whether that was romantic/sexual or whether that was just like besties, platonic, preliminary – I'm going to stop
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: But I lost track. I disliked everything I said so much that I blacked out
KAYLA: Yeah, I don't know. I feel like it's a newer, I don't know when people started using it. Got to be within the last ten years.
SARAH: Mm. I don't know about ten.
KAYLA: Well to give it a wide range.
SARAH: Ghosting. No, I think more than ten.
KAYLA: Oh. Interesting. Well.
SARAH: The term originated in the early 2000s
KAYLA: Ah, damn. It really is in the 20s isn't it?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Horrifying.
SARAH: Because if you think about it, 10 years ago, 2012, we were in high school
KAYLA: Oh Jesus. That's very true.
SARAH: Time is a flat circle.
KAYLA: I feel like a lot of it has been attributed to dating apps and online dating and online communication too, so that makes sense.
SARAH: Mhm, yeah.
KAYLA: Okay. So where do you want to go first?
SARAH: Um. I don't know.
KAYLA: How about I give you a statistic real quick?
SARAH: Yeah, please.
KAYLA: So there's a New York Times article called "How to Recover From Being Ghosted". I will say I skimmed this article, there's not like a lot of advice in here. It's a pretty short article. I would say it really doesn't do a good job of, it's literally like 4 paragraphs.
SARAH: Boo. Hiss.
KAYLA: Boo hiss. The most interesting thing I thought was this lady Gilly Freedman who's an assistant professor of psychology at Saint Mary's college
SARAH: It's always Saint Mary's
KAYLA: Is it?
SARAH: (laughing) I don't know, continue.
KAYLA: Okay. She's been studying ghosting. This article says "a method of ending a relationship by ceasing all forms of communication and simply vanishing," so there's your nice technical definition.
SARAH: The non-technical definition is yeeting yourself out of someone's life.
KAYLA: Yeah. Truly, the lack of tips or really any substance to this 4 paragraph article
SARAH: What venue?
KAYLA: New York Times!
SARAH: New York Times?! Get it together. Where are the New York Times fact checkers, come on!
KAYLA: That's what I'm saying. I mean it's in the tips section so it's not one of their fancy
SARAH: Real tips.
KAYLA: Yeah. So she says "one of the things that characterizes ghosting is uncertainty". Duh. "There are emotional consequences on both sides." Ma'am, you're a professor, we can put a little bit more work in. But I find this interesting. "Friends can ghost you too." In her research, Freedman says about 23% of people say they've been ghosted by a romantic partner and 39% say they've been ghosted by a friend, which is very shocking to me. And here's her advice, for anyone looking.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: "Find an opportunity to experience inclusion and you'll feel better". So that's her quote. New York Times expands "call your sister, take your dog to the park, go salsa dancing, do something that gives you that feeling of acceptance"
SARAH: Okay, well let me start off.
KAYLA: Cool.
SARAH: What if the person in question doesn't have a sister? What if they don't have a dog or a park?
10:00
SARAH: What if they don't have salsa dancing? What if salsa dancing ceases to exist?
KAYLA: Well.
SARAH: That's the end.
KAYLA: You're screwed. This article then concludes by saying ghosting doesn't seem to have that huge of an impact on people? In a study, people that have been ghosted in the previous year report the same level of loneliness, helplessness, life satisfaction as those who have not been ghosted. Freedman said "being ghosted isn't going to cause those to plummet and never recover". This is a bizarre article.
SARAH: (laughing) Really strange article.
KAYLA: This is so odd.
SARAH: You know, I saw a Tweet the other day. I certainly could not find it. Well, maybe I could. I remember it well enough I could probably search up some key words, but the gist of the tweet was the worst feeling in the world is being ghosted, the best feeling in the world is mutually ghosting each other.
KAYLA: That, as a previous participant of this, yeah. It worked out good.
SARAH: Yeah, because it's like neither of you reaches out to the other person every again.
KAYLA: That's great.
SARAH: Neither of you is in the situation where you're like "hey what's up" and then you never get an answer.
KAYLA: Oh, it's great.
SARAH: First of all, "hey what's up" is a horrible way to start a conversation, I prefer to send memes.
KAYLA: Well.
SARAH: Well. But if you both are just like "I don't want to do this". That seems great. One of the many, many reasons I'm glad I don't date is because I would not know how to reject people. I am very non-confrontational.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I would ghost the shit out of everyone.
KAYLA: I do think we've talked about before my thoughts on how bad Sarah would be at dating
SARAH: So bad.
KAYLA: And I do think this is a major part of that.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: Something that's funny is when you just Google ghosting, it comes up with a section of things to know, and it kind of reminds me of when you look up a disease and there's like a little panel of symptoms and stuff
SARAH: (laughing) Symptoms of being ghosted.
KAYLA: No, literally. The sections are how to respond, signs, how to stop, how to handle, how to fix, early signs, causes, how to eliminate, length of time, how to check. They're literally treating this like a disease.
SARAH: This is way more thorough than I expected.
KAYLA: Do you want to know about any of these?
SARAH: Yeah, please.
KAYLA: Do you want me to...?
SARAH: How to stop.
KAYLA: Okay, one of these Google is doing their best with their analytics. How to eliminate, when you click on it, brings up an article from hp.com as in the computer about monitor ghosting, so that one's... we can take that one out. So you want to know how to stop ghosting?
SARAH: Yeah I want to know how to stop.
KAYLA: This is from resetyoureveryday.com. I guess I'll actually click on the article, blah blah. Mkay. I mean, already so much more content than the New York Times, come on now. Okay. Prepare for the conversation.
SARAH: But there is no conversation, you're being ghosted.
KAYLA: Well no but this is how you stop ghosting people.
SARAH: Oh. I thought it was. Okay well here's the thing, it's so easy to stop ghosting people. Stopping ghosting people in a nice way, hard. Stopping ghosting people in general, not hard. You can just send them the skull emoji.
KAYLA: Well, no. This article is really less about how to stop ghosting and more about how to have an adult conversation like breaking up with someone.
SARAH: I want to an article about how to stop getting ghosted.
KAYLA: Okay. How to respond, signs... I mean, I can give you early signs, so maybe if you catch the signs early?
SARAH: Yeah, give me the early signs please.
KAYLA: These are some 10 early warning signs of ghosting from thetrulycharming.com. Bailing on plans has become their second nature, avoids sharing personal details, they have commitment-phobia, their words don't reflect their actions, no interest in future plans, they keep your relationship secret, they avoid revealing the two of you in public. I mean, that's all just some toxic things, I think.
SARAH: Yeah that all checks out.
15:00
SARAH: I feel like that's all pretty straightforward.
KAYLA: Okay, apparently, in case you're wondering, three days according to bodyandsoul.com, three days is enough to consider yourself ghosted. I don't know that I agree with that. What if they were busy? What if they had weekend plans?
SARAH: What if their grandfather died?
KAYLA: Three days seems... you know?
SARAH: What if they were on a silence retreat where they had to turn in their phone?
KAYLA: Thank you, thank you.
SARAH: Why am I being thanked?
KAYLA: So true. I mean, so there's some information that you could get by yourself by googling, but you instead got it from a podcast, so that's been this segment.
SARAH: (laughing) That's been this segment. The next segment is something you can't get anywhere else, and that is the fish flag emoji!
KAYLA: Yeah, this is a Sarah original, TM TM TM.
SARAH: Now the fish flag emoji, you can get anywhere on an apple product. Perhaps also on others. I think they probably have their own fish flag emojis. But the use of the fish flag emoji is a skill I have honed.
KAYLA: Mhm.
SARAH: Have I used the fish flag emoji for fish flag emoji purposes in years? No.
KAYLA: It really was a one time kind of situation
SARAH: Yeah it wasn't used just once but it was really kind of just with one person.
(laughter)
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: If you're ever in a situation with somebody, especially if they like have a weird crush on you and you're not into it but you're sort of friends with them and you know you're going to continue to interact with them
KAYLA: Friends is a strong word for what happened, but alright.
SARAH: Friends is a strong word.
KAYLA: More like someone you're in the same circles with.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: Who you cannot truly ghost because you will keep seeing them.
SARAH: Yes. Because you will keep seeing them.
KAYLA: Physically can't ghost them.
SARAH: Physically cannot. And they send you a text that you don't know how to answer. It's either weird or...
KAYLA: and here's the thing: you and your roommate have spent hours crafting texts previously
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: To this person for weird messages, and it's just getting a little tiring.
SARAH: yeah we were trying to dissuade – they're not invasive questions just more personal than you would like given the nature of this relationship
KAYLA: Just a very flirty vibe that you're not consenting to.
SARAH: Yeah, and if they just have to –
KAYLA: And this is before you know you're aspec, by the way so complicates matters a little bit.
SARAH: Little bit.
KAYLA: This is also all a hypothetical situation, so.
SARAH: Yeah this is 100% hypothetical. This has never happened.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: I've got to go. So say someone asks you a question that's just weird and you don't know how to answer it. All you have to do is send the fish flag emoji. Now, if you're not an avid user of the fish flag emoji, it will be hard to find.
KAYLA: It's deep in there, I'll tell you folks.
SARAH: You know in the past, let me see if I can...
KAYLA: I don't even know if you can really search for it, I don't know the search term.
SARAH: Yeah I'm trying to see if you can search it. Okay, if you look up fish it will come up.
KAYLA: But the important thing to know is when the fish flag emoji was first used for this purpose, it was before you could search for emojis.
SARAH: It was, yeah.
KAYLA: So that did make it really difficult.
SARAH: Yeah. Well eventually I used it enough that it was just in my commonly used.
KAYLA: We did, you know.
SARAH: Hypothetically.
KAYLA: It became a trend, hypothetically.
SARAH: Yeah. It's just like two little fish flapping in the wind on a pole. I don't know what it is supposed to be because if you look up fish flag, it does not come up. I'm not sure what it's supposed to be. It looks, you know, like a wind sock.
KAYLA: Yes, it does look like a wind sock.
SARAH: But fish.
KAYLA: Maybe that's what it's supposed to be. I wonder if you looked up wind if it would come up.
SARAH: I already put my phone away so it's too late.
KAYLA: Nope.
SARAH: Sad. Will we ever know? No way of knowing. There's no way to find out the answer to this. No. But I would just like to suggest the next time you're in a situation where you're asked a question that makes you feel weird but you can't just totally yeet yourself from the situation or the conversation, just send the fish flag emoji. Now, Sarah, you're asking. What if it's a real life interaction?
20:00
SARAH: This is why, what I need you to do, is I need you to print out the fish flag emoji on a piece of paper.
KAYLA: Or better yet build a physical version of this wind sock.
SARAH: Well, I think this way is more portable. This is more portable.
KAYLA: Okay I was just trying to have some fun, but okay.
SARAH: I think you print it. If possible, you laminate it. Stick it in your bag, stick it in your pocket, and then if you are ever in a situation in real life, you pull it out. Maybe you're on a date and you're a little unsure about the date. Have the fish flag emoji on hand.
KAYLA: You know what'd be really great? You know how there's a thing at a lot of bars, I think it's called the angel shot that if you're uncomfortable at a bar you can ask a bartender for the angel shot and they'll help you out.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: You should google that to make sure it's the right word before you try to use it. But I think you should be able to ask for a fish flag at a bar
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: And they will deliver a fish flag to your table to let your date know like "I'm so sorry but they have gone. You're a weird creep"
SARAH: (laughing) Sorry that made it seem like they died
KAYLA: Well. I mean.
SARAH: I'm so sorry but they have passed on.
KAYLA: I'm going to bring a fish flag to your funeral.
SARAH: As you should. Which one of us do you think is going to die first?
KAYLA: That's such a good question. My gut response is you but I don't know why. I think it's because you have more body issues than me.
SARAH: Yeah. That's fair.
KAYLA: But also I'm built different?
SARAH: But hey, sometimes, the body can be real strong and then your brain stops working and then when you get put on hospice it takes you four days to die because your body is so healthy but your brain doesn't work anymore.
KAYLA: (laughing) All hypotheticals, folks.
SARAH: (laughing) All hypotheticals.
KAYLA: Anyway, honestly though, as stupid as it is, I don't think the fish flag tactic is like the worst option.
SARAH: It's bizarre.
KAYLA: Well also because it's nicer than fully ghosting someone, but it also makes it very clear like "hey man something's weird, the vibes are off"
SARAH: It's a good story, like I got fish flagged.
KAYLA: This conversation's out. It's just how to shut a conversation down immediately.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: You know?
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: This also made me realize though, because I said earlier that ghosting is a mostly online phenomenon
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: And I wasn't quite connecting the dots on why but it's like this person in this hypothetical story.
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: Couldn't be ghosted. You could literally only do this to people –
SARAH: We were on an athletics team together, hypothetically.
KAYLA: Maybe.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: You can only ghost someone that you're not going to run into.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I mean I guess you could try ghosting someone, but it's not going to work.
SARAH: Ghosting is like the online version of standing someone up but like permanently
KAYLA: True.
SARAH: I mean I guess if you get stood up you're not going to like continue that relationship.
KAYLA: I should hope you will not.
SARAH: Unless it's like "I was in a car accident and I was in a coma and that's why I didn't show up"
KAYLA: You know what I just realized?
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: One of my coworkers and her husband, he like ghosted her for a while after they went out for the first time
SARAH: And she married him?
KAYLA: Yeah, I don't remember the full story.
SARAH: It better be good.
KAYLA: I mean, he's a nice man so it's okay, but he was also like friends with her sister, so how can you fully ghost someone when you know their sister, you know?
SARAH: That's sketch, I hope the story's good. That's sketch but I also respect a ghoster, you know?
KAYLA: Sarah, no.
SARAH: Because I would
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: I respect a polite ghosting.
KAYLA: Well here's the thing, Sarah. You might be able to respect them, but they might be a criminal.
SARAH: That is so true. It took me a second to figure out where you were going with this
KAYLA: This has been the smoothest segue in sounds fake history.
SARAH: I disagree, but top ten.
KAYLA: Sarah I would like to bring you some – thank you. I'd like to, this is from Washington Post, apparently their tag line
25:00
KAYLA: Is democracy dies in darkness?
SARAH: Yeah, you didn't know that?
KAYLA: No
SARAH: It's fucking owned by Bezos. Fuck that shit.
KAYLA: I wasn't signing up for like that vibe tonight, it's like 11:30 but okay.
SARAH: Also "democracy dies in darkness" you're owned by Jeff Bezos you piece of shit.
KAYLA: Yeah that's tough. Anyway this is some breaking news for you all that will be like 2 weeks old by the time you hear this.
SARAH: Week and a half.
KAYLA: Okay. Filipino lawmaker wants to punish people for ghosting. So Arnolfo Teves
SARAH: Yeah it's like the Spanish
KAYLA: Arnolfo Teves Jr, who's a member of the nationalist people's coalition in the Philippines, I'm guessing, which is allied with the ruling administration says "ghosting is a form of spite that develops feelings of rejection and neglect and should be considered an abusive act" so he proposed a bill, he put it forward last month it became public this week, that – it doesn't suggest any penalties but does say that ghosting should be punishes, so he's leaving that open for suggestions.
SARAH: So it could be a death penalty or it could be like a slap on the wrist?
KAYLA: Who's to say?
SARAH: Who's to say.
KAYLA: The document –
SARAH: You're getting fined $5 million
KAYLA: Imagine. The document is titled "An Act Declaring Ghosting as an emotional offense" and he claims ghosting is a form of cruelty prevalent in today's world, and he says that thanks to technology, the realm of dating has changed exponentially compared to previous years, which makes ghosting more possible. The ambiguity with ghosting, the bill's explanatory note declares, is that there's no real closure between the parties concerned. It says it can be likened to a form of emotional cruelty. He says that ghosting is an act that is mentally, physically, and emotionally exhausting for victims and said that ghosting can lead to ridicule and humiliation, and victims are likely to suffer emotional turmoil, which is not what that other article said, but who's to say.
SARAH: Yeah, I wonder if this man has read that article.
KAYLA: Probably not, it's a bad article. The bill in its current form at least is unlikely to pass. Can't imagine why. For the bill to pass it needs to pass three readings and garner support in the House of Representatives and the Senate. Reaction on social media has been mixed. Shocking.
SARAH: Well so I looked up this guy's party. His party is a conservative party.
KAYLA: Yes, so people are saying they think they did this just to distract people from actual, important matters going on.
SARAH: Well yeah because there was an election there in May and some rough shit happened, Duterte is no longer in charge, but he sucks.
KAYLA: Oh apparently earlier this month this man proposed to rename the international airport after a dictator which is cool.
SARAH: That is very sexy.
KAYLA: So yeah clearly they're just having a silly, goofy time over there.
SARAH: Yeah, I know things have been rough in the Philippines. If we have any Filipino listeners, I'm sorry y'all. That shit sucks.
KAYLA: Yeah. I mean you can find his whole little bill situation on Twitter if you want to read it.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I'm just like, what an interesting choice you have made.
SARAH: Certainly. Let me take a look at this. Oh, this is actually very interesting. This was filed on Duterte's last day in office.
KAYLA: Hm.
SARAH: The former president's last day in office. That's really interesting. Anyway. Well. Introduced by Representative Arnolfo Arnie Teves Jr
KAYLA: Not Arnie
SARAH: (laughing) Thank you for letting me know that he goes by Arnie. Emotional abuse.
KAYLA: Interesting. It says studies have shown emotional rejection of any kind activate the same pain pathways as physical pain and it does reference a different New York Times article on ghosting.
SARAH: Here's this: section 2b "ghosting, a form of emotional abuse and happens once a person is engaged in a dating relationship with the opposite sex"
30:00
KAYLA: Uh oh!
SARAH: "which affects the mental state of the victim". If you're gay, you're allowed to ghost.
KAYLA: Now why was that necessary?
SARAH: Ghosting is allowed for gay people.
KAYLA: Finally, gay rights.
SARAH: Oh my god, oh my god.
KAYLA: Wait, interesting. You on section C?
SARAH: (laughing) Yeah.
KAYLA: Bizarre, what is this man doing?
SARAH: It says "dating relationship" refers to a situation where the parties live as husband and wife without the benefit of marriage or are romantically involved over time and on a continuing basis over the course of the relationship. A casual acquaintance or ordinary social relationship between two individuals in a business or social context is not a dating relationship.
KAYLA: This makes me wonder, and I don't understand politics at all, but are they just trying to pass this bill so they can redefine what a relationship is?
SARAH: I don't think so. I think they knew it would be a little too absurd to ban ghosting entirely so they're like "we'll ban ghosting if you know each other pretty well"
KAYLA: And also what would you do, call the police and be like "officer, I've been ghosted"
SARAH: (laughing) And then the police would be like "yo that sucks that's embarrassing for you dawg"
KAYLA: Is there like a hotline?
SARAH: Yeah, that's a great question.
KAYLA: Like a 111? Like how are you going to build a court case on this?
SARAH: Yeah, I don't know.
KAYLA: Because this bill doesn't really give a technical definition of ghosting. Like how many days, you know?
SARAH: Yeah. Sorry I got distracted, apparently Demi Lovato is using she/her pronouns again.
KAYLA: I did see that.
SARAH: Yeah. This is also a really brief bill. Very short. Usually bills are long. So. US imposes sanctions on Putin's reported girlfriend.
KAYLA: Alright we don't have to do this.
SARAH: But democracy dies in darkness, Kayla.
KAYLA: So true.
SARAH: How old is she? 39! He's 69.
KAYLA: Alright how about you get off the news real quick? How about that?
SARAH: (laughing) Got to go.
KAYLA: I mean, I feel like it's pretty clear that the reason they did this was to distract people from actual bad things going on in the government in the Philippines.
SARAH: The fact that it was literally Duterte's last day in office.
KAYLA: Yes. I would like to believe though that this man has been horribly ghosted and this was his way of coping.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: That's a more enjoyable thing to believe for me.
SARAH: Yeah, here's the thing. Politicians are known for being weak and sad.
KAYLA: (laughing) Woah.
SARAH: This is the sort of thing that Ted Cruz would do
KAYLA: Oh, absolutely.
SARAH: This is Ted Cruz core. So I think this checks out, and it's stupid and I hate it.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: That's all. Oh. Oh my god! In this article I found the tweet that I was talking about. One sided ghosting is bad, but two sided ghosting is one of the most beautiful things we have. Just two people silently deciding that they will definitely never contact each other again. It doesn't get better than that.
KAYLA: So true.
SARAH: Wow. Okay. So in conclusion, ghosting. I don't know.
KAYLA: Don't do it.
SARAH: But if you do...
KAYLA: Don't!
SARAH: Wear a cute outfit.
KAYLA: The point of ghosting is they wouldn't see... what if your last thing is you just send an outfit pic? You send a little outfit of the day and that's the last thing they hear from you.
SARAH: There's a One Direction song where it's like "don't wear that as you walk away from me" essentially
KAYLA: Never heard of it.
SARAH: Well, I'm paraphrasing.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: So you know, if it's like a "haha look I'm hot and I'm never going to talk to you again"
KAYLA: Jesus.
SARAH: Sort of deal. I think what we know from this podcast is I am a ghosting apologist.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Getting ghosted sucks but ghosting? Freeing.
KAYLA: Freeing? Interesting. Please don't listen to Sarah. She literally has never dated in her life.
SARAH: You're right.
KAYLA: And doesn't get to give advice at this time, I've decided.
SARAH: I don't think I've ever ghosted someone. Well, not really. Sometimes I've not answered someone on purpose.
35:00
KAYLA: The concept of ghosting between friends baffles me. I didn't realize that was something we were doing. I find that worse than ghosting romantically for some reason
SARAH: Well it feels like if you have a friendship it feels more established than someone you've been on one date with, you know?
KAYLA: Well it also feels more personal because relationships there's a lot of different compatibility things that could make you want to ghost someone
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: But for friendship you don't have to be their best friend but the bar is lower
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Which means if someone doesn't want to be your friend you really fucked up.
SARAH: Yeah. Especially if you didn't do anything in particular it's just like "wow so you really hate me that much huh"
KAYLA: Yeah that's tough.
SARAH: It's tough. It's a tough one. I don't think I've ever really ghosted someone, not in a meaningful way.
KAYLA: That's good, let's keep it that way. What if Sarah ghosted me?
SARAH: (laughing) I was literally just thinking that. I couldn't. I have too many unhinged texts that I send you.
KAYLA: That's true.
SARAH: And if I didn't send them to you, who would I send them to, you know?
KAYLA: Where would they go?
SARAH: Because as we've discussed before, I have a number of unhinged texts on different topics, and different texts go to different people and so if I couldn't send my unhinged texts to you I would have to spread them out amongst other people and that would be putting a large burden on those people, you know?
KAYLA: Yeah, that would be really bad.
SARAH: Yeah. So what we learned today is I can't ghost Kayla because I am so compelled. I have a friend –
KAYLA: You're also still contractually tied to me, so.
SARAH: That's true. I have a friend who is gay.
KAYLA: Congrats!
SARAH: Thank you. This friend knows jackshit about BTS
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: I at one point explained BTS gay because BTS gay, BTS gay. And now I cannot stop myself when BTS does especially gay things, I cannot stop myself from sending them to him. And the other day I was like "I am so sorry. I cannot control this urge, I have to" and he was like "no, I love it" and I was like "good because you will continue to get all the BTS gay content" and that's what I would be about trying to ghost you
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I would like to say you're welcome because first of all, I have now been on stan Twitter for over a year, congrats to me. And second of all, because of that, you get very few unhinged BTS messages.
KAYLA: I used to get a lot more, I feel.
SARAH: Yeah, and now they go into the void.
KAYLA: Yeah, it is nice. We do need to wrap this up because I am sweating so much.
SARAH: So true bestie.
KAYLA: And I would like to stop doing that.
SARAH: Yeah, I'd like to eat dinner. Okay. Poll? Have you ever ghosted or been ghosted?
KAYLA: Yes that was what I thought as well too also.
SARAH: Yes but then when it came out of my mouth it didn't sound right but it was actually grammatically correct.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Okay. So I guess that's two polls. Ghosted someone else? Yes or no. Been ghosted? Yes or no.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Delightful. Kayla, what is your beef and your juice this week?
KAYLA: My beef is that I'm so sleepy.
SARAH: Hm.
KAYLA: And that my life won't slow down.
SARAH: You're not slebby?
KAYLA: Ah, no I'd say I'm just sleepy. I think slebby has some more whimsy to it, you know?
SARAH: Okay. What about sleppy? Where does sleppy fall?
KAYLA: Also whimsical, and I'm not feeling –
SARAH: You're not feeling whimsical
KAYLA: – in my whimsy era at the moment.
SARAH: Okay. Mkay.
KAYLA: Yeah, so that's my beef. My juice is that, I don't know how long this has been a thing, but there's been a couple times I've been on Twitter and I have my headphones in
SARAH: Oh my god
KAYLA: So I can hear sound effects.
SARAH: Oh my god it pisses me off
KAYLA: And when you pull down the thing to load new tweets and the little loading guy going in a circle it goes (imitating sound) ba-deep. I find this noise very good.
40:00
SARAH: I hate it.
KAYLA: It itches my brain at just the right spot. Would recommend.
SARAH: I have no problem with the actual noise. What I don't fucking like is that it just happens against my will. I also have had this problem for some number of months now where if I am listening to music in my headphones or even if I'm watching a video on my computer or something, if I open Twitter on my phone, it will stop the music in my headphones
KAYLA: I have not had this issue.
SARAH: Because it's like "it's time to listen to Twitter"
KAYLA: Oh I have another juice
SARAH: Let me say one more thing.
KAYLA: Ugh.
SARAH: Sometimes recently I will be on Twitter and it will be making the loud noises, or I will have it turn the audio on so that I can hear a video or something and then I'll close that video, and then it'll just keep playing, it'll play an ad as I'm scrolling past it, out loud, and I can't get it to stop
KAYLA: We do not have the same problems.
SARAH: Yeah see this is why you find it whimsical and fun and I hate it.
KAYLA: Yeah. My other juice is that, I also don't know how recent this situation is, but now on YouTube, I'm assuming with the latest update, you can leave the app and the video will keep playing just really small in the corner of your screen so then you can go to a different app and continue watching the video
SARAH: That is delightful
KAYLA: Which is something that you can do on Twitch already and I'm guessing YouTube felt left out and did it
SARAH: Wait, so does that mean you can basically listen to music on YouTube again?
KAYLA: Yeah it's like the old days when you could play music on YouTube completely leave the app and it would still play.
SARAH: Here's the thing.
KAYLA: Big stuff.
SARAH: I know that with the YouTube extra subscriber whatever their thing is called, that is one of the features that they use to entice people which is "you can play videos when you're not in the app" basically you can listen to music not on the app, but this is an incredible work around for the people.
KAYLA: Yes. I'm guessing they're really trying to compete with Twitch right now and I'm thinking that's what happened, and I love that for me. Capitalism really popped off today.
SARAH: Yeah, well that brings me to my beef which is capitalism.
KAYLA: Boo hiss.
SARAH: Boo hiss. Why do I have to have a job, you know?
KAYLA: So true. I don't dream of labor.
SARAH: Why can't I work at a little flower shop but not like a real one. Like one in a fanfiction.
KAYLA: Mhm.
SARAH: Like I am a side character in someone else's florist/tattoo shop meet-cute AU.
KAYLA: Mm.
SARAH: That's my dream job. I'm like the best friend who's watching my friend fall in love but also not abandoning me because that would be fucking rude
KAYLA: So what I'm hearing is you just don't want to be a person
SARAH: Yeah and like maybe I could supply cupcakes sometimes and I really like their new partner and they give me discounts on tattoos because they work at the tattoo shop and I live in that fictional realm.
KAYLA: So when they both leave the flower shop, do you exist still?
SARAH: I hope not.
KAYLA: Okay, cool. So we're just talking about a full derealization sort of situation.
SARAH: Yeah I think I just enter low battery mode
KAYLA: Sure
SARAH: And then when they come back in I re-enter and then I just get a quick download of what theoretically happened in my life while they were gone, so I still have things going on I just don't really have to experience them.
KAYLA: Interesting. Alright this seems... Okay. I don't think I'm qualified to be discussing this.
SARAH: What, you mean your dream job isn't being a side character in someone else's fanfiction?
KAYLA: (laughing) I just struggle with calling that a job and not a mental illness.
SARAH: (laughing) That's a job, I'd get paid for it.
KAYLA: You wouldn't, you're not real.
SARAH: Yeah and I'd get paid in crypto, which is also not real.
KAYLA: (laughing) No oh oh oh! You know what this reminds me of? What's the new Ryan Reynolds movie?
SARAH: Free Guy?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Yeah, that's a good movie.
KAYLA: You just want to be a little dude in a video game
45:00
SARAH: Yeah. Don't have to make any decisions.
KAYLA: You want to be a side character in a dating sim is what you want
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Alright
SARAH: A side character specifically.
KAYLA: Yes I know. Well we don't have time to unpack all of that.
SARAH: Well here's the thing about me though, even if it weren't a I'm aroace thing I don't think I would want to be the main character in anything. Seems like a lot of work.
KAYLA: I know that's literally what you're saying
SARAH: Like I would have to make decisions. Anyway, my juice.
KAYLA: (laughing) Oh my god.
SARAH: I have a song recommendation that's relevant to today's topic and it is Ghosting by Tomorrow by Together.
KAYLA: Oh you know what's a good song also about ghosting?
SARAH: Hm?
KAYLA: I have to find what it's called. I think it's just called Ghost?
SARAH: (singing the Monster Mash) Do the monster mash
KAYLA: Ghost by Scott Hoying and One Night
SARAH: Oh.
KAYLA: Bopping banger.
SARAH: (laughing) Now we're just listing songs
KAYLA: Alright. What if we – alright
SARAH: Wait I have another juice because ghosting by Txt brings me to Txt at Lollapalooza which was excellent which brings me to Hopipalooza. J Hope at Lollapalooza. My life has been such a void of serotonin for the past 48 hours that had I not stocked up watching Hopipalooza Sunday night, I think I'd be dead by now, but I just gathered all the serotonin by watching Hopipalooza on my computer, and I wasn't even that sad that I wasn't there even though I had a lot of friends who were there because I was reminded of how absolutely horrible music festivals would be for me personally.
KAYLA: Yeah, you would not be a fan.
SARAH: Yeah so I was reminded of that and it made me feel less jealous, and I just received so much serotonin that I grew like 30 feet taller
KAYLA: Wow.
SARAH: And then the last 2 days of work have been a serotonin void but I have had so much that I'm still like 3 inches tall.
KAYLA: That's it?
SARAH: Well yeah but if not for all that Serotonin I would be like -10 feet.
KAYLA: Alright, interesting. Okay. Wwe've covered a lot today, I feel.
SARAH: Is this going more in the direction of what you expected from me for this episode?
KAYLA: Yeah we finally got to that point.
SARAH: We got there.
KAYLA: We did. Okay, I'm so sweaty, this has to be over.
SARAH: I'm so sorry for my brain, I don't like it either. You can tell us about your beef, your juice, your ghosting stories on our social media @soundsfakepod. We have a new $2 patron who was new last week and I missed it because I am a dumb dumb. So, thank you to Noelwiz.
KAYLA: Amazing mod of the Discord.
SARAH: Beloved mod. I am sorry that I forgot about you. It will never happen again. You are camped at the front of my mind. That's weird, you're not. Our $5 patrons who we are promoting this week are Ashley W, Asritha Vinnakota, Bookmarvel, Brandon Smith, and Brooke Siegel. Thank you. Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this week are Arcnes who would like to promote the Trevor Project, Ari K. who would like to promote Thought Slime, Benjamin Ybarra who would like to promote tabletop games, Changeling and Alex the ace cat who would like to promote Starshipchangeling.net, and David Jay who would like to promote Emergent Strategy by Adrienne Maree Brown. Our other $10 patrons are David Nurse, Derek and Carissa, CinnamonToastPunch, my Aunt Jeannie, Maggie Capalbo, Martin Chiesl, Mattie, Potater, Purple Hayes, Rosie Costello, the Barefoot Backpacker, The Steve, and Zieklteo. (singing) Zie.
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: Our $15 patrons are Andrew Hillum who would like to promote The Invisible Spectrum podcast, Click4Caroline who would like to promote Ace of Hearts, Dia Chappell who is @Twitch.tv/MelodyDia, Hector Murillo who would like to promote friends that are supportive, constructive, and help you grow as a better person, Keziah Root who would like to promote starting a coffee trailer, Nathaniel White who would like to promote NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com, Kayla's Aunt Nina who would like to promote @katemaggart.art, Sara Jones who is @eternalloli everywhere. Our $20 patrons are Sabrina Hauck who would like to promote Christmas from their parents and Dragonfly who would like to promote ending this shit show. Thanks for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows.
SARAH: (whispering) And your friendly neighborhood Sarahs please.
49:51