Hey what's up hello! Today we're revisiting a topic we very briefly and poorly addressed all the way back in episode 9 (NINE!) of this silly little podcast: the Split Attraction Model (SAM).
Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/the-split-attraction-model
Donate: patreon.com/soundsfakepod
Follow: @soundsfakepod
Join: https://discord.gg/W7VBHMt
Buy our book: www.soundsfakepod.com/book
Hey what's up hello! Today we're revisiting a topic we very briefly and poorly addressed all the way back in episode 9 (NINE!) of this silly little podcast: the Split Attraction Model (SAM).
Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/the-split-attraction-model
Donate: patreon.com/soundsfakepod
Follow: @soundsfakepod
Join: https://discord.gg/W7VBHMt
Buy our book: www.soundsfakepod.com/book
SARAH: Hey, what's up, hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake but Okay a podcast where an aroace girl, I'm Sarah that's me
KAYLA: And a bi demisexual girl, that's me Kayla
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand
KAYLA: On today's episode: the Split Attraction Model
SARAH AND KAYLA: Sounds fake, but okay
(theme music)
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod!
KAYLA: (singing to the tune of "It's the Most Wonderful Time") It's the most pod time of the week
SARAH: The most pard time of the week?
KAYLA: Pod
SARAH: It sounded like you said pard
KAYLA: Well
SARAH: It is pard sometimes
KAYLA: So true
SARAH: It's pard out here for a bitch
KAYLA: We were going to record yesterday, our usual day of recording, and then we both just said what if we didn't?
SARAH: Remember how a couple weeks ago I was like we should make Wednesday our recording day?
KAYLA: (laughing) And then
SARAH: And then since then we have not recorded on Wednesday like 3 times
KAYLA: It's like how Jenna Marbles used to be like videos come out every Wednesday/Thursday.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Like the intention is always Wednesday
SARAH: yeah
KAYLA: But sometimes you get to the day and you're like "eh, don't feel like it"
SARAH: Sometimes you don't
KAYLA: Sometimes you are a two person business and both of those two people have severe executive dysfunction.
SARAH: Yeah. Uh huh
KAYLA: And some illnesses that absolutely should be diagnosed
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Yet here we are
SARAH: Some that are
KAYLA: And some that are
SARAH: Some that aren't
KAYLA: Some that are
SARAH: And sometimes half of that business is someone who traditionally takes Adderall but hasn't had it for two weeks.
KAYLA: This week, this is so unrelated to anything, but I've been talking to my therapist a lot about whether I potentially have ADHD and we were talking about whether I would want to get medicated if I get a diagnosis and we were talking about different medications, and she was like "well have you ever taken a friend's adderall just like whatever and what were the effects?" and I was like "no I haven't" and she seemed surprised and I was like "ma'am, I'm not cool"
SARAH: Bitch, you can't have my Adderall, I need that. Bogey don't eat my corn.
KAYLA: That's what I was saying. First of all, I never had the urge to do that kind of drug. Second of all, the one person I know that I could get Adderall from wouldn't give it to me. She can't even get it for herself.
SARAH: I know, like come on
KAYLA: Anyway
SARAH: Anyway, this is our podcast.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: We do have at least one housekeep, two housekeeps that I can think of
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: One of them, next week live stream October 29th, Eris Young and Cody Ace Dad
KAYLA: (laughing) That's not their last name
SARAH: That is their last name
KAYLA: You know what, you're right.
SARAH: Their name is Cody Ace Dad
KAYLA: You know what, yeah, I take it back
SARAH: And we will be talking about some books. It'll be spooky. It almost was 7 in the morning for me, and I would've done that for you. I wouldn't have liked it, but I would have. But then it's not 7 in the morning for me, so. Shoutout to that.
KAYLA: It's not. Now it's 10 AM Pacific, 1 PM Eastern, other times other places.
SARAH: Yeah. Kayla doesn't fucking care about those other places.
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: The UK time is literally on the poster
KAYLA: I'll have you know that on the lock screen of my phone I have the clock app, clock widget, and I have LA, I have Central Time, and I have London Time, so I do care
SARAH: I'm going to be honest, I really thought when you said that you were going to say "I have it in military time"
KAYLA: No. No. I hate military time.
SARAH: I can't read that shit
KAYLA: I can't either. My sister is a nurse, and she has military time always, and I always look at her phone, and I never know what's going on.
SARAH: When I was in Germany, all the digital clocks where I lived where in military time, so I would look at the oven, and I would have to think. And you would think me living there for 6 months would make it better. I got a little bit better, not better enough.
KAYLA: Here's my thing about. Because you said it was on all the digital clocks. Analog clocks are not military time.
SARAH: True
KAYLA: So what's the point?
SARAH: True.
KAYLA: Is there a military time analog clock?
SARAH: You know I really wonder if you gave me an analog clock, and you gave me a military time clock, which I would be faster at reading
(05:02)
KAYLA: I'm really bad at reading clocks, so I don't know
SARAH: I'm out of practice on analog clocks
KAYLA: I was never good at it
SARAH: But when I did gymnastics for most of my life all of the clocks at the gym were analog
KAYLA: Okay they do make them
SARAH: Okay, I don't care. We should probably start this podcast.
KAYLA: I guess
SARAH: That was only one of our housekeeping things.
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: Yeah so we're going to do that, and hopefully it'll be slightly more focused than the past 2 minutes were. The other housekeeping is because we are doing livestream, we are not going to do a podcast next week. So it's a replacement. Got him.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Because you know what? Sometimes a bitch needs a break
KAYLA: Sometimes you need a little nap
SARAH: Sometimes a bitch needs a break 3 weeks ago, you know?
KAYLA: Yeah. When you give a bitch a break
SARAH: When you give a bitch a break, the bitch will sleep. So yes. Pod leave stream.
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: It's a stream where we just leave the room.
KAYLA: Oh and just leave it?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Just leave it, alright
SARAH: Yep goodbye. Livestream 29th no pod the 30th just go back and watch the livestream again or go back and listen to all of our podcasts or listen to our very first episode about the split attraction model and say "yeah the new one's better." On that note, we do have to make this better.
KAYLA: Yeah not off to a good start, I'll be honest.
SARAH: No. Not at all.
KAYLA: Technically though, that first episode was – let me find it. It was like the third episode, which is why we're revisiting this topic. Because I'm sure it was trash.
SARAH: So yeah Kayla what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: So... let me find what episode it was. Wow. Okay. It was episode 9. So today we're talking about the Split Attraction Model. Last time, technically the episode was about different types of attraction, where I'm sure we did talk about the Split Attraction Model
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But that wasn't the title. So.
SARAH: So technically it's a first.
KAYLA: Technically it's different, but no. We thought we would revisit this topic because we know a lot more things than we did back in 2017, and I just felt –
SARAH: Our audio's better. You know.
KAYLA: Our audio's better, things are just better, and I thought we could revisit the topic. And I can already think of a couple ways, like I remember a few of the things that I said in the episode and looking back knowing what I know now it's very funny and so
SARAH: We could look at the transcripts, couldn't we?
KAYLA: We could. Let me find it.
SARAH: Shoutout to our transcripts. And our wonderful transcribers.
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: If nothing else, you're making our lives easier.
KAYLA: It's so true. Alright I did find it.
SARAH: You know what's interesting? I used to always call it the split model of attraction
KAYLA: Same
SARAH: But
KAYLA: I think that's what it used to be called mostly
SARAH: But that's the SMA.
KAYLA: This is the episode (laughs)
SARAH: Oh my god, what?
KAYLA: Okay so episode 8 we talked about online dating, right.
SARAH: (laughing) Oh no
KAYLA: (laughing) And I was like "I met my boyfriend on Tinder" and then episode 10 is where I get on and I'm like "me and my boyfriend broke up yesterday"
SARAH: Wait episode 10 was that episode, or episode 9 was?
KAYLA: Oh no no, wait. Hold on. Let me look. Okay, no. Episode 8 we talked about online dating and I was like "I met my boyfriend on Tinder". Episode 9 we talk about the different types of attraction, but I'm reading the transcript right now and we open with me being like "lol"
(laughter)
KAYLA: It's funny now. It was a very sad time in my life.
SARAH: Yeah. Oh man. A journey
KAYLA: Anyway, that's very funny
SARAH: You know, you're in a very different place now. Not as good.
KAYLA: Last time we talked about the 4 different types of attraction. So we talked about – which, there are more than that, but those are... anyway
SARAH: The big four
KAYLA: The big four. Last time we talked about the differences between sexual, romantic, sensual (pronounced with an s instead of sh), and aesthetic
SARAH: Why did you say it like that?
KAYLA: It's the only way. I'll be honest with you. it's the only way I can say it without being, I feel like I can't...
SARAH: Sensual?
KAYLA: Sensual. I feel like, I don't know.
SARAH: You think sensual (pronounced with an s instead of sh) is better?
KAYLA: No, I don't. You know what? I'm looking at this transcript and we got off topic just as much.
(10:02)
SARAH: Yeah that's our brand
KAYLA: That's our brand. Anyway
SARAH: (laughing) What's the fourth one, you didn't name the fourth one?
KAYLA: I said aesthetic
SARAH: I didn't hear it. And hey last time you claimed I didn't say something that I did say.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I did say it
KAYLA: That happens in like every episode
(laughter)
SARAH: We got the receipts. So we'll find out when I edit this.
KAYLA: Okay. I swear I said it. I'm probably wrong
SARAH: We're going to talk about those things. They're called the SAM. I don't think anyone calls them the SAM, but the split attraction model, the S-A-M, formerly known as the SMA, the split model of attraction
KAYLA: I swear when we first started the podcast everyone was calling it the split model of attraction. And at some point it changed so it could be SAM, which makes more sense.
SARAH: Yeah when we were writing our book you kept calling it, you used the...
KAYLA: SAM
SARAH: The shortening.
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: What's it called?
KAYLA: Abbrevia– no, acronym
SARAH: The acronym? All I could think was anachronism which is a very different thing
KAYLA: We are 11 minutes into the episode
SARAH: (laughing) We're 12 minutes into this episode.
KAYLA: We have to start. We have to.
SARAH: Okay, okay, okay, okay. The split attraction model
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: Speaking of our book
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: You pulled up our book
KAYLA: I did. I don't know that we give a really good solid definition because we're talking about it in the context of a lot of other things
SARAH: That's true
KAYLA: So I'm not going to read it from our book
SARAH: Wow so you really had this all up there and then you let us down
KAYLA: Yeah but we do talk about it, so spoilers. Sneak peak.
SARAH: Spoilers, sneak peak
KAYLA: No. The split attraction model basically is kind of what it sounds like. It is the idea or the framework that basically puts forth the idea that romantic attraction and sexual attraction are different, they are not always going together. Of course it gets into –
SARAH: You're taking that from our book
KAYLA: We do – I
SARAH: That is exactly – Oh I just peaked my mic so badly I'm so sorry
KAYLA: Okay do you want me to read it?
SARAH: No it's just you were like "I'm not going to take it from the book" and then you said it almost exactly how we say it
KAYLA: Alright well now I'm going to read it. In the book, it says "what the split model describes is an ethos wherein romantic attraction and sexual attraction are not the same"
SARAH: And then we have a footnote
KAYLA: And then we have a footnote, footnote A.
SARAH: Aw, it's the first one
KAYLA: Yeah it might be actually. In the footnote we basically say we don't dive deeply into other types of attraction outside of romantic and sexual in the book, but it should be noted that the split attraction model also accounts for other types of attraction such as sensual and aesthetic. See yeah I could have just read the book. It's fine.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But that is the basic idea. If you've never heard of it before. Often times people just assume that when you have romantic attraction for someone you're also going to have sexual attraction for them or that if you have a certain type of sexual attraction, say if you are homosexual, then that also goes for your romantic attraction, and that's not always the case. You can be asexual and like –
SARAH: Homoromantic
KAYLA: Homoromantic, yeah. For example
SARAH: Yeah and it's something allos broadly they conflate specifically romantic and sexual attraction but really all of them, which is why you really only hear people within the aspec talking about "I am fill in the blank sexual, fill in the blank romantic". Everyone regardless of whether they are aspec or not, experiences those two things, and they can be separated. It's much easier for some people than for others to separate them. For some people they really can't find the line, and that's fine, but for some people that line is very distinct and very clear, but they do both, and the other types of attraction, all exist for every person. Whether your experience is that you do feel that attraction or you don't. But because they're conflated so much, when people say like "oh it's me, a homosexual" the homosexual implies homosexual, homoromantic, homosensual, homo-aesthetic. It implies all of them
(15:00)
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: It's really only within the aspec community that we split that up but splitting it up is something that can be applied to everyone. Like you can be pansexual homoromantic, like that's totally plausible.
KAYLA: I think the split model was kind of coined by the aspec community
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But yeah like Sarah said, it is not – like I have plenty of friends that are just like straight that I've explained this to and they have come back to me saying that even though they are heterosexual/heteroromantic, the idea of splitting those up has helped them because they've realized like "oh I was sexually attracted to this person but not romantically attracted to them and that's why this relationship didn't work out" and like "I had never thought about that before because I didn't know that you could split them up
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So there's also a lot of practical applications to it beyond just what you're deciding to label yourself as.
SARAH: Yeah and even if you don't ever dive into "I am this and that and that and that and this" just understanding that there's a difference even if you don't always feel that difference, even if you don't always experience that difference, is very helpful. And understanding that other people might feel and experience that difference is important too because that helps you to better understand other people's situations and where they're coming from and you know, we can all hold hands and sing a song.
KAYLA: Uh huh. So true.
SARAH: I was going to say hold hands and play ring around the rosie but ring around the rosie is a game about death
KAYLA: Yeah we don't have to do that. We don't.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But yeah, I mean I think in general it's just a really good way of getting to know yourself better especially when you dive deeper into the different types of attraction like sensual or aesthetic, you can kind of really understand yourself better and understand why you might like certain people a certain why, or why you have a preference a certain way, like if you're bi or pan but you find yourself leaning toward certain genders and certain situations, you know what I mean?
SARAH: Mhm. Or certain expressions of gender
KAYLA: Yeah gender expressions
SARAH: Yeah. So I googled split attraction model and I would just like to discuss what comes up because honestly? I think it's not bad at all.
KAYLA: Wack and surprising.
SARAH: Surprising, but to be fair I also looked up the specific terminology
KAYLA: Mm, fair
SARAH: If I looked it up like "the difference" I'm not sure that I would get this –
KAYLA: That's fair
SARAH: – helpful of a response, but the first one is from Princeton. It's from the Gender and Sexuality resource center at Princeton. It's not very in depth, but it does exist. Then we have one from verywellmind.com
KAYLA: Excellent url
SARAH: Yeah. And then we have one from betterhelp.com, which I thought was interesting
KAYLA: That one surprises me
SARAH: For those of you that don't listen to other podcasts Better Help is
KAYLA: Let's just give them a free ad right now
SARAH: (laughing) Let's just give them a free ad right now. It's like an online therapy tool.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like you can get a therapist through Better Help
KAYLA: We should just apply the same methods that the McElroy family has in their podcast where they give free ads to certain movies with the hope that those movies will just pay them later
SARAH: Mm yeah. Manifest.
KAYLA: Yeah I think we should just do an ad for Better Help then contact them and be like "money please"
SARAH: Yeah we should be like betterhelp.com/soundsfake
KAYLA: yes
SARAH: And then when people go to that
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And don't get anything
KAYLA: They'll be like what the hell
SARAH: Then you can email better help and say where is it?
KAYLA: Where is it? I heard an ad for it and it didn't work.
SARAH: Better Help, H-E-L-P dot com. They always –
KAYLA: (laughing) H-E-L-P. That's Better Help H-E-L-P dot com. They do
SARAH: You got to spell it. Because it's not health, it's help
KAYLA: It's help, yeah.
SARAH: Anyway
KAYLA: nothing is at that url
SARAH: There's something at Better Help, which honestly seems kind of in depth and good. I haven't read all of it, but yeah. Then we have lgbtqia.fandom.com. I know that this is just the format for wiki pages
KAYLA: It is funny though. That it's like ah yes
SARAH: But it's so funny to call it a fandom
KAYLA: The gay fandom
SARAH: The queer fandom
KAYLA: Yeah. This wiki though, the lgbtqia+ wiki, it is very helpful.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: I used it as a resource when we were writing definitions for microlabels in the book to make sure I was getting stuff right, so
(20:00)
SARAH: Yeah. Then we have something from wellandgood.com
KAYLA: And it's by our girl Gabrielle
SARAH: Is it?
KAYLA: who I have talked to before for several a article. Yeah. She's very lovely.
SARAH: Would you say that that's pretty well and good?
KAYLA: It was well and good, yeah
SARAH: I'm here all week, thank you. Then we have some videos. We have slice of Ace
KAYLA: Classic, love
SARAH: We have some other people that I don't know but I'm sure are lovely
KAYLA: I'm sure they're great
SARAH: We have something at twinkle.com and then, then we have asexuality.org
KAYLA: No we have aromanticism.org before that and then asexuality.org
SARAH: Oh mine has asexuality first
KAYLA: Interesting
SARAH: That might be because I was talking to one of my friends today about David Jay and you know how the computers
KAYLA: Yeah but I was also talking to someone about David Jay today. But I was in a different room from where my computer was
SARAH: I was using my texting
KAYLA: Okay yeah that's different. Okay but I emailed David Jay today
SARAH: (laughing) Anyway
(laughter)
SARAH: Anyway we've got asexuality.org, aromanticism.org, and then asexualagenda.wordpress.com. I decided to just go to the bottom of the page because I was just reading them all.
KAYLA: You know what's wild?
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: Is the first episode we talked about this topic was episode 9 where we were like "wow David Jay what a god he'll never know who we are" and then I'm like
SARAH: (laughing) And today he emailed us
KAYLA: Yeah I emailed David Jay today, hahaha
SARAH: Well he emailed us. We didn't even email him in the first place
KAYLA: That's what I'm saying. He slid into my email first. David I'm so sorry
SARAH: Sorry David.
KAYLA: I love you
(laughter)
SARAH: So I think there are actually some good resources out there if you look up the correct terms
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But the question is whether you pull that off
KAYLA: Interesting. So I just looked up the types of attraction because I think it would be interesting for us to take another whack at trying to describe what the difference is again
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And this one has a lot. Oh okay they're not all types of attraction. Okay this actually is a really interesting article. So it's by healthline and it's called "What are the different types of attraction?" and then it's like "37 terms you should know"
SARAH: 37?!
KAYLA: That's what I said
SARAH: So many
KAYLA: So it goes through different types. So emotional attraction, alterous, which is an aspec – I'm guessing it was coined in the aspec community. I just know it's talked
SARAH: I'm going to be honest.
KAYLA: Go. Yeah
SARAH: This is a safe space, right?
KAYLA: Well
SARAH: We're going to pretend this is a safe space. I have had this podcast since 2017
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: Bogey, can you stop? Bogey is not
KAYLA: Bogey, we're having a moment
SARAH: Bogey did not exist in 2017.
KAYLA: True
SARAH: I have had this podcast since 2017. I have seen many terms
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: I have seen them and understood them.
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: I do not know what alterous attraction is
KAYLA: Well
SARAH: I've seen it so many times
KAYLA: Let me teach you
SARAH: But I have never truly grasped it
KAYLA: Well let's try together
SARAH: Mkay
KAYLA: Because it is a type of attraction. And it's not one that we talked about in the first time that we talked about this because I don't think either of us knew it was a term because we were so baby.
SARAH: Baby
KAYLA: According to healthline.com, this describes the desire for a type of emotional relationship and emotional closeness that the term platonic or romantic don't feel like they accurately characterize. It can also convey discomfort or deidentification with the word romantic as the primary descriptor of the focal point for different types of attraction.
SARAH: So it's a little QPR-ish?
KAYLA: So yeah that's kind of the vibe I get is that it's like the QPR equivalent of attraction
SARAH: Hm
KAYLA: Not to say that to be in a QPR you must feel alterous attraction, they go together
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But I feel like it is in the same way that a QPR can kind of blur the lines between platonic and romantic
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: That that is also what alterous means
SARAH: It's a good way to compare the terms in my head
KAYLA: Yeah. It also kind of reminds me of quoiromantic or like what the fuck, like WTF-romantic
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: Where it's like
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: You aren't quite sure where that line is
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: You know I just looked at our website
KAYLA: Uh huh
SARAH: And we do call it the Split Model of Attraction
KAYLA: We should change that. Where do we say that?
SARAH: On the What is Asexuality page.
KAYLA: We did write that a very long time ago
SARAH: Yeah maybe we should review this. No one look at it until we fix it. No one.
KAYLA: Okay. Some of these are weird. Social attraction?
(25:00)
SARAH: What does that mean?
KAYLA: Oh a person who is socially attractive is typically someone many people want to be around. Okay so that's just someone who's popular
SARAH: Ah so that's not attraction in the same way as being attracted to a person
KAYLA: Protective attraction. An attraction toward those who require caretaking like a child or a pet
SARAH: Speaking of pets, Bogey is going ham on the back of my chair right now
KAYLA: They have the term Zucchini in here.
SARAH: Nice
KAYLA: Which I know a lot of people don't like, but some people call queer platonic partners zucchinis
SARAH: Why do they do that again?
KAYLA: I don't know
SARAH: Okay. Well.
KAYLA: Anyway. Objective attraction
SARAH: I don't think any attraction is objective.
KAYLA: No
SARAH: Oh unless you're saying that you're attracted to objects?
KAYLA: No it's not that.
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: I don't quite agree with this list. I feel like there's a lot of words there that have to do with attraction but
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: May not be attraction themselves?
SARAH: A person can be socially attractive in that they attract other people but you cannot be socially attracted to someone, as far as I am aware.
KAYLA: We could be very wrong
SARAH: Yeah. Tell us if we're wrong
KAYLA: Please tell us if we're wrong, because I just haven't come across that, but we could be wrong
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: There's another Better Help article about the types of attraction and they list... well, hold on. They talk about asexuality right at the top. They list them as sexual attraction, romantic attraction, physical attraction, emotional attraction, aesthetic attraction, intellectual attraction.
SARAH: Hm, interesting
KAYLA: Yeah. Interesting. So they talk about emotional attraction as wanting to be emotionally present with another person. You may have this with friends, family, romantic partners. That's interesting. I hadn't heard that before.
SARAH: We're all learning something new today
KAYLA: We are
SARAH: Maybe in 5 years we'll look back at this episode and be like god we got to redo that.
KAYLA: Hah and honestly, probably.
SARAH: Should we back up? I say, 30 minutes into this episode.
KAYLA: I guess
(laughter)
SARAH: Should we back up and just kind of define more strictly – well not necessarily strictly – but more specifically what each of the main terms that we hear most often mean?
KAYLA: We can certainly try
SARAH: (laughing) We can try. So we have sexual attraction. I feel like this one is the most straightforward
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: It's when you want to sex someone
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Going to elaborate more?
KAYLA: Yes. For the Vogue article I recently was quoted in
SARAH: Mm
KAYLA: We were talking about how to know if you're demisexual and the writer was asking me a lot of questions about how to tell if you are actually sexually attracted to someone and you don't just want to have sex in general
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: Which I feel like can be confusing, and is why a lot of people get confused about the difference between libido and sex drive and like having sexual attraction
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: And like having sex in general. But how I think it makes sense to describe is sexual attraction is... Okay, back up. Libido or having a sex drive or being horny is the urge to have sex in general, and then sexual attraction is telling you who you want to have sex with. Who are you being pulled toward having sex with
SARAH: Who you're directing that sex drive to.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: You know where some people describe the difference between libido and attraction very well?
KAYLA AND SARAH: In our book.
(laughter)
KAYLA: That's actually true. Because we have quotes from a lot of different people and there are some really, really good ones
SARAH: Some really helpful metaphors.
KAYLA: That we read and we were like how did we never think of this?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Yeah check it out in chapter 5 of our book
SARAH: Oh ho ho you're going to have to buy our book
KAYLA: You're going to have to buy it to find out hahaha
SARAH: soundsfakepod.com/book February 21st
KAYLA: Anyway
SARAH: Okay so that's sexual attraction. Romantic attraction.
KAYLA: This one is difficult, I think
SARAH: A little spooky
KAYLA: It is a little spooky because this one to me is a lot harder to define. It feels a lot more nebulous, and I think that so much of it is so similar to having platonic attraction, I guess?
30:06
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: That it is very difficult. Because the way that I would describe romantic attraction is this is a person you think about often, or you might get flustered around, or you might daydream about them or like want to kiss them or whatever.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But a lot of those things could map onto a friend like if you have a squish on someone, a squish being a friend crush.
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: You might think about them a lot, you might have the urge to talk to them all the time, so it is a lot fuzzier, which is difficult.
SARAH: and if you're like "Oh I want to hold their hand, I want to cuddle them" that overlaps with sensual attraction as well.
KAYLA: Right, exactly.
SARAH: Which we'll get to
KAYLA: Yeah. Romantic attraction, as someone who experiences it, to me it's something I inherently know within myself how it's different
SARAH: (laughing) I thought you were going to say something that I inherited
KAYLA: It is something I inherited from myself
SARAH: (laughing) Is it nature, or is it nurture?
KAYLA: Who's to say?
SARAH: It's inheritance
KAYLA: Maybe it's Maybelline
SARAH: True
KAYLA: So that one's hard because I feel like it's just that gut feeling, but that I understand is not helpful to describing it or people that are like "I don't know if I've ever felt romantic attraction before, how do I know?" I don't know.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: I don't
SARAH: For me as an aroace, I've said this before, but my figuring I was ace was much, much easier than figuring out I was aro.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I never really questioned if I was grey-ace or anywhere else on the ace-spec, I did spend some time coming to the conclusion that I was aro. I was like am I grayromantic, am I wtf-romantic because nothing makes sense? And you know I eventually just kind of decided to use the term and I stuck with it, and I haven't changed it since, but it took more time for me to get there because it was less clear what it meant and what it was, which brings us to something that is not often talked about but we do mention in our book
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: Which is platonic attraction.
KAYLA: Very true. Which is basically the urge to be friends with someone. Like when you have a squish on someone
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: Like you meet someone new and you're like "oh my god I want to hang out with them, I want to be their best friend" which like, again similar to romantic attraction.
SARAH: Mhm. And it's something that's not often talked about because I think it feels less sustained than romantic attraction
KAYLA: mm
SARAH: Or sexual attraction, like it seems like it would be less common for you to be like when you're friends with someone for 5 years at 5 years be like "my god I have such a friend crush on you", you know?
KAYLA: Yeah. I also think that it's almost lower stakes
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: Because becoming friends with someone is easier than dating someone
SARAH: Has a lower barrier to entry
KAYLA: Yes because you can –
SARAH: And a less dramatic barrier to exit.
KAYLA: Yes because you can just be friends with someone
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: Whether you're casual friends or best friends, obviously is different and takes time, but like it's easy to be someone's casual friend
SARAH: Speak for yourself.
KAYLA: Okay. Okay, yes.
SARAH: (laughing) I have no friends
KAYLA: Okay I understand it's not easy to make friends. I also recently moved to a new city.
SARAH: I understand what you're saying
KAYLA: I don't mean that. But because of the way society has set up relationships
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Where you have to go through all these stages, you have to make it official, it's like the pressure to be monogamous has to be the one person blah blah blah, it is a lot more official and rules and boundaries, you know?
SARAH: Yeah. And just like how you don't need to have sexual attraction to have sex with someone, you don't have to be platonically attracted at first blush to every person you're friends with
KAYLA: Or ever. People are aplatonic
SARAH: Or ever. How about the enemies to friends trope?
KAYLA: So true
SARAH: Enemies to BFFLs. Imagine if we were enemies to BFFLs. That would be so dramatic.
KAYLA: I'm currently enemies to BFFLs with my roommate
(35:00)
KAYLA: I hated him in college. Now we're besties.
SARAH: Did you really hate him in college?
KAYLA: I don't know if I would say hate, but I didn't care for him that much
SARAH: Huh
KAYLA: He knows this we've talked about it. He also didn't like me.
SARAH: Did he like me?
KAYLA: I think so?
SARAH: I have to be liked.
KAYLA: Actually, I don't remember if he said he had a crush on you at one point
SARAH: Oh my god, everyone's had a crush on me. I'm so charming and lovable. I can't believe I'm such a hot commodity and no one can have me.
KAYLA: Gay women love you.
SARAH: The gay women love me.
KAYLA: They can't even have you.
SARAH: On occasion, some straight men have also
KAYLA: Well that's not as exciting that's not as much of a compliment
SARAH: It's not as exciting, yeah. I think a greater accomplishment is the WLWs. The W-L-Ws.
KAYLA: The wlwlw?
SARAH: The WLWs
KAYLA: Anyway
SARAH: The Sapphics, if you will
KAYLA: Yeah that's better
SARAH: It is. It's more inclusive.
KAYLA: She was a sapphic!
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: Is that from a movie?
SARAH: I've never even seen cocaine I don't know what it looks like
KAYLA: I don't know what it looks like! Have you watched that movie?
SARAH: No but Miranda sent me that clip
KAYLA: It's so good. You have to watch it. It's so good, it's so good. I don't even know what it looks like
SARAH: Tell the kids what we're talking about.
KAYLA: There's a movie called Do Revenge
SARAH: It's on Netflix, right?
KAYLA: And it's on Netflix, and it's really good. We watched it recently. It's like a teen movie classic in the making. It's so good, but Sophie Turner? is that her last name?
SARAH: The one that's married to a Jonas?
KAYLA: She's married to a Jonas, she was in Game of Thrones
SARAH: Yeah that's Sophie Turner.
KAYLA: She gets framed in the movie for doing cocaine even though she didn't
SARAH: By Camila Mendez not Cabello
KAYLA: Not Cabello, Mendez. Yes it's the girl from Riverdale
SARAH: The Riverdale one
KAYLA: And then she goes crazy and she's like (imitating Sophie Turner) "I don't do cocaine! I don't even know what it looks like". Anyway
SARAH: Also that one of Camilla Mendez going "I am shocked. I am so shocked. Oh my god"
KAYLA: It's so funny. It's such a good movie.
SARAH: Anyway.
KAYLA: It's so good
SARAH: I haven't seen it
KAYLA: There is a lot of sex. Not a lot. There is some sex. Anyway.
SARAH: I mean, the world is like that. It's pretty rough out there.
KAYLA: That's what I'm saying
SARAH: Alright so we've got sexual, we've got romantic, we've got platonic, let's do Kayla's favorite word: sensual (pronounced with s sound)
KAYLA: Sensual (pronounced with s sound)
SARAH: Sensual (pronounced with sh)
KAYLA: Sensual (pronounced with sh). Let's see. I feel like the best way to describe sensual is the attraction to someone to want to cuddle or hold hands or do a kiss, which you might be like "that sounds like sexual attraction," which yeah they often times have overlap, but think about how a lot of times you might want to cuddle your friend or hold hands with a friend. You know?
SARAH: Yeah. It's the feeling/the urge/the attraction to be physical with someone in a way that is not necessarily or inherently sexual.
KAYLA: Yeah like when Sarah used to just be deprived of physical contact so she would do it all at once and sit on top of me
SARAH: Yeah I would just like lay on top of Kayla.
KAYLA: Because Sarah doesn't really like physical contact but sometimes she needed it so she would get it all at once.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: You know it reminds me of – I'm going to bring up BTS. My beloved bias, Min Yoongi, also I recently
KAYLA: My soldiers, my American soldiers.
SARAH: Support the troops
KAYLA: My troops
SARAH: He is much like me in that sense and I saw a video recently of him whenever he just wants affection or attention from another member he will walk up to them and just stand there and look at them.
KAYLA: That's very you
SARAH: He'll especially do this on stage. They'll be performing and he'll just walk up and stand there.
KAYLA: That's very good
SARAH: And that's how they know. Which is a very me thing
KAYLA: That is very you
SARAH: But yeah sensual attraction is, I think it's often thought of hand in hand with romantic and – my brain was like let's make another pun, dick and dick with sexual
KAYLA: Oh-kay. Alright.
SARAH: Oh no. Now it just reminded me of the time that I learned what docking was.
(40:00)
(laughter)
SARAH: I got to go. Anyway. It's often, I don't want to say used in concert, but they often manifest themselves, they often are materialized – you can't materialize, but do you understand what I'm saying?
KAYLA: I do understand
SARAH: They come to fruition in concert with one another
KAYLA: They often go together yes
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: They don't have to but a lot of times they will.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: The last big one, I think
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: Is aesthetic attraction
SARAH: So it's actually the big 5, we forgot about platonic before
KAYLA: We did and I mean
SARAH: (laughing) Everyone else does.
KAYLA: Everyone always does. But there are obviously others, like these article were saying
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Like emotional attraction or intellectual attraction, like those are definitely things
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: But these I think especially in the aspec community are the ones I see talked about the most
SARAH: Yeah. So we have aesthetic attraction. This is definitely the one that I as an aroace who doesn't touch people
(laughter)
SARAH: Experience the most
KAYLA: Uh huh
SARAH: Aesthetic attraction is when you think someone is nice looking. You want to just stare at their face, you know?
KAYLA: Mhm.
SARAH: You want to make them your phone background but you don't because then you know people will ask you about it and you're not like ashamed about it but it'll just bring up a whole conversation you're not necessarily willing to have at 9 AM on a Monday morning, you know?
KAYLA: So true. The one thing I remember from the original types of attraction episode – I'm not going to check the transcript because it doesn't matter
SARAH: Fact checking is for losers
KAYLA: Well because the point stands whether I said it in that episode or a different one, but I remember at some point saying like "yeah I feel like I'm aesthetically attracted to women more"
SARAH: Mm
KAYLA: Like, women just look better than men. Which is funny because I thought I was straight
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: But you don't have to be aesthetically attracted to the same types of people you are romantically and sexually attracted to
SARAH: Yeah. My aesthetic attraction doesn't. I couldn't put it in boxes.
KAYLA: No
SARAH: I would say there are themes
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: But those themes aren't necessarily specifically gendered, you know?
KAYLA: Sure, yeah. It's just when a person is like look nice and you're like, I want to stare at you forever.
SARAH: Mhm
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: And you can be aesthetically – I think this is also an important thing to note for people who are allo. You can be aesthetically attracted to someone, you can find someone aesthetically attractive without wanting to date them or fuck them
KAYLA: The amount of times I've heard people be like oh well how would Sarah, for example, know that this person is hot? She's aroace
SARAH: I have eyes
KAYLA: And it's like... she can have opinions about what people look like without
SARAH: Like everyone has opinions and preferences like whether that's right or wrong, it's the world we live in
KAYLA: Yeah that's like saying like a straight woman can't tell if another woman is attractive
SARAH: Yeah, and before people say "well straight men" the only reason they pretend they can't tell is because they're repressing themselves.
KAYLA: Well yeah
SARAH: And that's something we need to work on
KAYLA: Well yeah that's just because men aren't allowed to like other men in any way
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Without it being like "oh, gay"
SARAH: Gay.
KAYLA: It's not their fault though
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Well sometimes it is, but you know.
SARAH: Yeah, but I mean anyone can experience aesthetic attraction. I've never heard of anyone who identifies as like aaesthetic like they don't have aesthetic attraction but it certainly could be an experience some people have, I just haven't seen it discussed. But yeah. I get it. Sometimes you just got to look at your lil guys. Lil guys being a gender neutral term.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Guys is also a gender neutral term, but in this context specifically, it's lil guys
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So those are the big 5
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: I'm glad that we defined them at the end of the podcast
KAYLA: Yeah that was really good
SARAH: Just listen to it backwards
KAYLA: (laughs) Yeah. But they are also – like we have given some definitions here, but that does not mean that that is –
SARAH: They're loosey goosey
KAYLA: The definitions that you have to use for yourself personally. That doesn't mean that they are easy to separate. Obviously having definitions and words is helpful, but they are going to be different for every person
(45:00)
SARAH: Yeah if you don't get it, that's okay. You don't always get things right away
KAYLA: Or ever
SARAH: For example, I learned today what alterous means
KAYLA: So true, but also or ever. Because there are so many people aspec or not that just can't tell the difference between platonic and romantic attraction, and that's okay. It's alright.
SARAH: Yeah. Also this is something that came up when I googled it that I was like "you know what? That's a great question". Another term that I often see that I don't really know what it means, which is cupioromantic
KAYLA: Oh. What's that?
SARAH: It's a person who desires a romantic relationship but doesn't experience romantic attraction to others
KAYLA: I have seen this.
SARAH: Yeah I've seen the term a lot I just never totally knew what it meant, but now I do, and I'm enlightened
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: Yeah. Just like you don't need to have sexual attraction to do a little doozy, you don't need to have romantic attraction to do a little... roozy.
KAYLA: And for more on that, our book. Because we also talk about that
SARAH: So true bestie. I think that about covers it. Is there anything else we want to say except see you in another 5 years when we have to redo this? Hear you? You'll hear us, we won't hear you. This is a one way thing
KAYLA: No, it is. It is. No I don't think so
SARAH: Go team. Kayla, what is our poll for this week?
KAYLA: Hm. Maybe like do you personally find the Split Attraction Model helpful? Because I know even within the aspec community, some people are like "I don't really use that for me"
SARAH: I don't care. I don't care for it.
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: Good. Kayla, what is your beef and your juice this week?
KAYLA: Oh. My beef. Okay, it's a beef but also a juice. My roommates and I started watching the television program the Mole, which is a Netflix show. It's a reboot actually of a show from like the early 2000s, but it's like a reality competition show where all of these people are competing to win money, but one person is a mole and it's their job to sabotage and try to sabotage the challenges so money doesn't get put in the pot
SARAH: So it's like run BTS when they have a spy?
KAYLA: Uh huh. And at the end of every episode they have to do a quiz basically guessing who the mole is and the person that does the worst on the quiz gets kicked off. So you have to be very observant, and try to know who the mole is, but the mole is trying to stay hidden, but you also have to get the money. It's a whole thing.
SARAH: Mm
KAYLA: It's so intense. I have never seen such a well-produced reality show
SARAH: Wow
KAYLA: It is honestly insane. It's addictive, so we have been watching it and we didn't realize it's been coming out weekly and we just started watching it late, so there was a lot of episodes, so we thought we were going to be finishing it tonight, not realizing the last 2 episodes don't come out until tomorrow, and we are so sad because we need to know who the mole is, and so now we're walking up at 5 AM tomorrow to watch it before everyone goes to work. Because Netflix shows drop at midnight Pacific, which is 3 AM for us, and we can't do that.
SARAH: I didn't know that it was midnight Pacific. I guess that makes sense because that's where –
KAYLA: It's stupid and I hate it
SARAH: That's where the hub is
KAYLA: Yeah. So my juice was going to be how good the show is but now I'm mad, so it's also my beef. My other juice is that I got one of those weighted dinosaurs from Target and I love it and its name is Jam
SARAH: Jam?
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: You got no jams. I got no jams actually
KAYLA: Oh, oh.
SARAH: I'm just making up for all the BTS references we haven't had over the past couple months
KAYLA: Mhm
SARAH: Bogey, that is not an appropriate behavior. I'm almost done. My juice is you know Army Twitter has been going off recently
KAYLA: They're supporting the troops
SARAH: Whenever something relatively scarring happens in the fandom, the tweets are fucking hilarious. My beef is... yeah I still don't have Adderall
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I would appreciate it if I got it soon. He said to call back tomorrow. He might be getting a delivery. Spent a lot of time on hold at CVS. That's all I'll say on that matter. Okay cool. You can tell us about your beef, your juice, your attraction on our social media @soundsfakepod. We also have a patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod where you can give us your money if you so desire.
(50:00)
SARAH: Our $5 patrons –
KAYLA: I would desire it
SARAH: (laughing) Yeah. I would desire you give us your money. Our $5 patrons who we are promoting this week are Byron Rusnak, Chris Lauretano, Colleen Walsh, Corinne, and Daniel Walker. Bogey, that is... you don't have money, so can you stop disrupting? I can't see the screen. Okay. Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this week are Rosie Costello who – oh Kayla you haven't heard this one yet. It was new last time, but you weren't there.
KAYLA: Oh, I'm ready
SARAH: Rosie Costello who would like to promote – Bogey's ass is in my face and I can't see it. Sir. Sir. Rosie Costello would like to promote voting in the upcoming midterm elections but in particular, voting for individuals that support year round lake swimming
KAYLA: So true.
SARAH: It is Rosie-phobic to not be allowed to swim in the winter months.
KAYLA: That's very true.
SARAH: So keep that in mind when you're casting your ballot. Barefoot Backpacker who would like to promote their podcast, Travel Tales from Beyond the Brochure, SongOfStorm who bumped up from $5. Thank you for your extra money. What do you want to promote? This week, you're going to promote sea shanties. The Steve who would like to promote Ecosia, the search engine for the trees, and Zirklteo who would like to promote that England isn't real and that Liz Truss was only prime minister for 44 days
KAYLA: God bless that lettuce.
SARAH: God bless the Lizzy. Oh, oh!
KAYLA: I texted you
SARAH: I was really confused by that text.
KAYLA: Yeah I just copy and pasted it for speed because I just remembered
SARAH: Okay, hold on
KAYLA: I meant to put it in there right away the, you know
SARAH: Then you didn't. Cowardice. Our other $10 patrons are Arcnes, Alyson, Ari K, Benjamin Ybarra, Cass, Changeling and Alex the ace cat, David Jay – thanks for emailing us sometimes David
KAYLA: I love you
SARAH: David Nurse, Derek and Carissa, CinnamonToastPunch, my Aunt Jeannie, Maggie Capalbo, Martin Chiesl, Mattie, Potater, and Purple Hayes. Our $15 patrons are Andrew Hillum who would like to promote the Invisible Spectrum Podcast, Click4Caroline who would like to promote Ace of Hearts, Dia Chappell who would like to promote Twitch.tv/MelodyDia, Hector Murillo who would like to promote friends that are supportive, constructive, and help you grow as a better person, also having friends, I think that's nice. Keziah Root who would like to promote the people who come into your life – No, yeah just for a small time – no, yeah but when you need them
KAYLA: Yikes
SARAH: I was doing so well.
KAYLA: You were
SARAH: I had a stroke for a moment I'm so sorry. Sorry Keziah. Oh no I just deleted somebody. I just deleted 5 people.
KAYLA: Ma'am! They give us money you can't just delete them off the page
SARAH: Nathaniel White who NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com, Kayla's Aunt Nina who would like to promote katemaggartart.com, which Kayla texted me a minute ago but she just forwarded the text from her Aunt which starts with "hi there, I hope you and Dean and the kitties are well," and I was like. Why is Kayla sending me this?
KAYLA: You were like "I don't live with them". Anyway. You should check them out though. Katie is my cousin, and she does really good art, and you should look at it because it's really good.
SARAH: Do you call her both Kate and Katie?
KAYLA: I call her Katie
SARAH: That's confusing because I ahve a cousin who's named Katie and a cousin who's named Kate.
KAYLA: Yeah she, we've always called her Katie. I think she does Kate professionally, maybe? but.
SARAH: Interesting
KAYLA: I used to think her name was spelled KD because I was a child
SARAH: Mm. You know, sometimes that's the way it be
KAYLA: Sometimes you think only legs go to Heaven
SARAH: (laughing) Yeah and you know what? I was right about that. You don't see the legs in an open casket
KAYLA: Yeah Okay, okay.
SARAH: and Sara Jones who would like to promote @eternalloli everywhere. Our $20 patrons are Sabrina Hauck Merry Christmas from your parents, and Dragonfly who would like to promote the fact that it is totally logical for a small child to think only the legs go to Heaven when you don't see the legs in an open casket funeral, but you do see the upper body of the dead person. Thanks for listening. Tune in not next Sunday, but next Saturday for a livestream, and the following week for more of us in your ears in podcast form.
KAYLA: And until then, send your cows' legs to heaven
SARAH: It doesn't work the same with cows because they've got 4 of them
KAYLA: Well, pick 2
SARAH: (laughing) If a cow's legs went to heaven would it be like this, or like this?
(laughter)
(55:03)