Hey what's up hello! As we all know, talking about sex and romance is a huge way that we socialize and create bonds with people. So what does that mean for aspec people who may not want to talk about these things? Or may experience them differently?
Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/social-bonding-with-sex-and-romance
Donate: patreon.com/soundsfakepod
Follow: @soundsfakepod
Join: https://discord.gg/W7VBHMt
Buy our book: www.soundsfakepod.com/book
Hey what's up hello! As we all know, talking about sex and romance is a huge way that we socialize and create bonds with people. So what does that mean for aspec people who may not want to talk about these things? Or may experience them differently?
Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/social-bonding-with-sex-and-romance
Donate: patreon.com/soundsfakepod
Follow: @soundsfakepod
Join: https://discord.gg/W7VBHMt
Buy our book: www.soundsfakepod.com/book
(00:00)
SARAH: Hey what’s up hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I’m Sarah. That’s me.)
KAYLA: … and a demisexual girl (that’s me, Kayla)
SARAH: talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else that we just don’t understand.
KAYLA: On today’s episode: Social bonding.
BOTH: Sounds fake, but okay.
(Intro song)
SARAH: Welcome back to the Pod!
KAYLA: Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm (cont.)
SARAH: (overlapping) Ohmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm (laughs)
KAYLA: M’acbeth?
SARAH: Okay. M’oderate.
KAYLA: Okay!
SARAH: Uh, Kayla?
KAYLA: Yeah?
SARAH: Do we have any new housekeeping? don’t think so.
KAYLA: No I think by the time you’re listening to this we already did Comic Con so...
SARAH: Yup.
KAYLA: Hopefully, at least one person showed up.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: We were… We were on another podcast that wasn’t this one called Pride Connection and we went on with our lovely friend, Changeling who you may know from the internet, and we just talked about aspec stuff and accessibility stuff and it was a cool time so if you go to changeling.mx/sfbo you can listen to it.
SARAH: Ohhh~ we have our own little link.
KAYLA: Yah!
SARAH: We’re so special~ Yes, yes thank you for having us Changeling.
KAYLA: I think by the time you hear this my episode of Bacon and Eggs will be out? I went back to Bacon and Eggs the movie lovers podcast — this time without Sarah-
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: - because she was NOT invited -
SARAH: I wasn’t invited no...
KAYLA: um — to talk about Twilight, my new obsession. And I know what you’re thinking: How fun to hear an aspec perspective on a trashy romance movie, I can’t wait to hear Kayla hate on it. That is not what you will receive.
SARAH: (laughs)
KAYLA: From any of the parties on the podcast. So. Spoiler alert. All three of us gave it a 100/100 so.
SARAH: Wow. Wowowowow.
KAYLA: Anyway. Check it out! Our good friends Ethan and Tyler are a great time-
SARAH: They are.
KAYLA: And everyone should listen to them.
SARAH: Kayla what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: This week we are talking about, kind of the concept of the social bonding that happens… I feel like I wanna say, especially when people who are socialized as women talk about sex and romance because that’s just how I know of it-
SARAH: Well...
KAYLA: But I know it’s a big thing for people who were socialized as men too, so.
SARAH: Certainly. I mean I think we’ll probably focus more on people socialized as women in this context because that’s what we are.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But I do think, I feel like oftentimes women are socialized a certain way regarding romance-
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Whereas with men it’s a lot more regarding sex.
KAYLA: Yeah. I kind of thought of this concept recently just because I have never I guess had a lot of friends in my life that were super romance oriented either in high school or college?
SARAH: Yeah, same.
KAYLA: I feel like typically I was probably the most romance-oriented of my close friends?
SARAH: I was not.
KAYLA: So it didn’t give me the chance to talk about that kind of stuff a lot or have that kind of girl talk? Um, but like with friends I’ve made recently that’s come up more, and I realized how important it was for me I guess and kind of also made me realize that strong essence of bonding and and social bonding that’s kind of embedded in society and expected of women especially, like a lot of aspec people might just not have it so it makes it hard to kind of form those bonds and do that kind of socializing.
SARAH: Yeah like that kind of boy talk and who do you have a crush on? That’s a really important social thing to be involved in especially when you’re young and trying to find your place among your peers and you’re the one kid who’s like “I don’t have a crush on anyone” or like “I don’t get why we’re talking about this so much” like that can be really isolating. And I mean we found this when we were reading some of the responses in our survey for our book, but you know there were a couple times where people mentioned that they would just make stuff up. And we’ve heard this from others as well when you’re asked-
(5:00)
SARAH: “who do you have a crush on” or “do you think this person is hot” people would just lie to fit in because it is such a crucial part of our social structure.
KAYLA: Yeah and I feel like I hear that a lot, both in aro and ace contextses— contexts-
SARAH: yeah.
KAYLA: but also lesbian contexts or gay contexts, I guess, just the universal experience of in high school just like picking a crush-
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Or like aspec people realizing later in life that not everyone just picks someone arbitrarily. Which is funny. I do wanna kind of say before that we’re gonna spend a lot of this episode deconstructing the importance of it, but I also like don’t wanna say that it’s not important because like as someone who dates and is in relationships the importance of it for me comes from like getting advice and having people to talk to about my relationships to get help or to work out feelings or be like— especially because we have no sex education in this country or any —
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: -like as an adult going through things of like “hey does this happen with your body?” or
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: “when this happens during sex how do you feel about that?” I do - Those conversations are very important-
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: -and like and that’s one of the reasons I thought about this so much because I realized how much that lacked in my younger life — I’m still very young — my even younger life and how much I appreciate having other friends in long term relationships or other friends who have sex - not to say that - I feel like this sounds bad -
SARAH: (deep sad voice) she hates me… because I don’t have sex… (laughs)
KAYLA: I hate Sarah. Yes. No. It’s like the concept of you have different friends for different things and for a long time I didn’t have a friend for that particular need in my life-
SARAH: Yeah, and I think to a certain extent this podcast also serves as a version of that where it’s like allo meets aspec where it’s like- and I think like, you know, part of the reason a lot of people do enjoy listening to our podcast is because we’re creating here a space where we can have these conversations about “I don’t get this” “what is this”-
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But in a way that doesn’t feel judgemental to people who don’t experience certain parts of the love and romance spectrum and the sex— all of it. The sex.
KAYLA: Yeah. Cause even like this came from a recent experience: I was actually at a movie night watching Twilight but like in between movies we were waiting for dinner to be done and one of my friends had one of those card games of ultra-personal questions that’s like a drinking game bonding thing so we were just going through them for fun and as we came to questions about sex and relationships we were all really interested in each others answers, but there was still this shame and embarrassment, but in the end we found that like all of us had very similar experiences and there was no reason to be afraid to talk about it?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But there is that judgement thing. It’s hard to talk about those subjects when it is that taboo.
SARAH: Yeah, or even for me as an aroace person. I’m still interested in hearing about you know the dating lives of the allos I’m close to. It’s not that I don’t ever want to hear about that stuff-
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: It’s that for me I don’t want it to be so… profoundly mandatory from such a young age, like I want people like me to feel like they can have those conversations with the friends that they want to have those conversations with and when they want those conversations, but not that you have to participate in them to fit in.
KAYLA: Well right, because I feel like especially like maybe starting in middle school it’s not- it does feel mandatory to participate. If me and Sarah are having a conversation about my dating and sex life it’s not like then I turn around to Sarah and say “so what are you doing?”
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: It is, I suppose, a more one-sided situation but I feel like in middle school it's like “ok everyone go around the circle and you tell me who you have a crush on and you tell me what you’re doing” and it does start from like really young. I remember being in middle school and some girl in my French class was like “I gave someone a blowjob!”
SARAH: What!
KAYLA: and I was like Excuse Me?
SARAH: In middle school?!
(10:00)
KAYLA: Excuse me? That’s not something we do. I don’t even know how I knew what that is at that age. I mean probably I’m sure TV, but like...
SARAH: Yeah. Or even just me personally I remember in 5th grade someone being like “oh my god that kid has a crush on you!” and I was like “Oh I’ll have a crush on him too”.
(laughing)
SARAH: And obviously in hindsight, like I was just doing that because that’s what I thought I was supposed to do, but there was a reason why I thought I was supposed to do that. Right?
KAYLA: Can I tell you? This makes me think, sometimes you look back and you’re like “wowie wow aspec”.
SARAH: Yeah, yeah.
KAYLA: There was in third grade this kid who then became incredibly popular in high school — so just saying I was the hipster of this man-
SARAH: Mm kay.
KAYLA: His friend told me that he liked me and I went up to him and made fun of him for it!
(laughing)
SARAH: That’s so funny.
KAYLA: Like I went up to him at recess I go up to like the kickball court and was like “ewww so and so told me you like me”
SARAH: You bullied this motherfucker!
KAYLA: I literally did! Like in front of his friends I was like “Ehhhh someone told me you like me” Oh my god.
SARAH: And he immediately stopped liking you.
KAYLA: Oh I’m sure. I’m suuuure.
SARAH: I mean it was effective if that was your goal.
KAYLA: I - yeah, I mean I don’t know what my goal was.
SARAH: Unless he’s just really - unless he as a third-grader was like “I anticipate that when I’m older I’m gonna have a degradation kink, so I’m gonna…”
KAYLA: We don’t need to put this in but you know where he went to school and played football?
SARAH: Ohio State?
KAYLA: Slippery...
SARAH: (gasp) I know. I think we do need to put this in.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Slippery Rock just the greatest school there ever was.
KAYLA: No one that doesn’t go to Michigan will understand.
SARAH: All of our Michigan- all of listeners who are familiar with Michigan will be like “Oh fuck yes, Slippery Rock”
KAYLA: Anyway that’s really fucked up because Slippery Rock is the best school in the country.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Anyway I did become profoundly unpopular the next year and I’ve always attributed that to my hair getting really frizzy and like me becoming ugly in fourth- you know when you start your ugly phase?
SARAH: (laughs) yeah.
KAYLA: But now that I think about it was maybe this very moment because he was very popular and I used- and I was in third grade too and then I wasn’t.
SARAH: That is such tiny little Kayla thing to do-
KAYLA: Isn’t it just?!
SARAH: That is absolutely something that I would never in my life do, but it is absolutely something you would do...
KAYLA: Well, because I was even worse as a kid, if you think I say too much now, I was like a bitch when I was a kid, when I tell you that I was like the popular mean girl in first through third grade, I was a BITCH.
SARAH: (laughs)
KAYLA: I talked to my therapist about it and I still have a lot of feelings left over about it (laughs) it’s fine. This isn’t the point of this show.
(laughing)
SARAH: Goodness.
KAYLA: Anyway. But it does feel like I feel like it really starting from a young age it does leave aspecs particularly those who don’t have an interest in dating - in dating or sex or who maybe just come to it at a later age or don’t find it to be as important I suppose?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: It starts so young but then it keeps going because even like at the workplace it's like-
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: “Oh we’re sitting at lunch oh tell me about your husband” or “ Oh what are you doing this weekend do you have any dates” or whatever.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like it doesn’t stop at that preteen who-do-you-have-a-crush-on-stage.
SARAH: Yeah cause it's so central so you have to actively act against that and actively push against it if you want people to stop prioritizing that and expecting you to follow along with that (cutesy high-pitched voice) cute little status quo.
KAYLA: Yeah, I mean I guess it does like, it makes you think like for work things, like if you have a work party or a work event you get a plus one-
SARAH: You get a plus one.
KAYLA: or even for weddings. Your plus one is expected to be a romantic person.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Obviously people bring their friends to weddings all the time, but that’s not what it’s thought of.
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: Like oh this person is dating someone so I need to give this person a plus one, or oh this person is younger and not dating so I’m not gonna give them a plus one.
SARAH: Yeah that’s kind of a weird phenomenon that I’ve experienced, that when I’m invited to weddings and it’s not specifically stated whether I have a plus one or not, I don’t really-
(15:00)
SARAH: ‘cause like the people inviting me to the wedding know I’m aroace, but are they not giving me a plus one because they just aren’t and that’s fine, or OR are they not giving me a plus one because I’m aroace and I don’t need to? You know what I mean?
KAYLA: Yeah. We really do need to do the wedding episode because I have a lot of thoughts but we don't need to get into them right now.
SARAH: Or like when, when I brought Miranda to my cousin’s wedding I specifically asked if I could-
KAYLA: yeah.
SARAH: -because I didn’t want to assume I had a plus one, and also...my aunt was like “um maybe not” and then my cousin found out and was like “what the fuck are you talking about bring her”
(laughing)
KAYLA: “excuse me!”
SARAH: “It’s my wedding, bring her!”
KAYLA: It’s my wedding. I'll cry if I want to.
SARAH: I think too this whole social pressure — not I think, I know — this why so many aspecs force themselves to try and date or force themselves to participate in sex and romance in ways they don’t necessarily want to because they have to. For me I got very lucky because I don’t give a fuck.
KAYLA: (laughs)
SARAH: And I’ve never given a fuck and it’s fine, but not everyone has that same experience, and so you know a lot of people do things that they regret or maybe just things that maybe in hindsight they were like “why did I bother?”
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Because they’re trying to- to fit in.
KAYLA: Have you ever- like, I mean like you said you generally give a fuck, but-
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Even like work settings or anything like that, has this ever come up as like “oh we’re all going to be talking about this now” and you’ve ever felt left out?
SARAH: In terms of talking about… relationships?
KAYLA: Like dating or sex or anything yeah.
SARAH: Not really. I think the one time it did kind of come up it wasn’t in a big group setting, and the person I was talking to I was pretty comfortable with so I was like “bro… I’m aroace” and they were like “oh man, I’m bi and I like sex way too much, we’re opposites”
(laughing)
KAYLA: That’s funny.
SARAH: I was like okay.
KAYLA: That’s the thing too like, when someone asks you “are you dating?”
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Your options are: Well you have a couple, you lie and say yes, you tell the mostly truth like “no I’m not interested right now” and they think like oh you’re just busy with work or you think you’re just forever alone or you have to fully out yourself.
SARAH: Yeah and...
KAYLA: Because — I feel like I’ve seen people say that, like “Oh when people ask me- if my parents ask me if I’m dating, or my friend’s or coworkers they always assume it’s for some sad reason like “Oh honey you’ll someone” or “oh I promise there’s a good guy out there”
SARAH: Like no shut the fuck up.
KAYLA: “oh is it because you’re so career driven”. No one ever takes into consideration that some people genuinely don’t want to without a secondary motive.
SARAH: That’s just not considered to be an option.
KAYLA: Right which makes these conversations harder when there is that social pressure, because even for people like you who are like happy to hear about it, it would be so much easier to participate in those conversations if you were out because then you could fully be like “here’s my perspective as a person with this identity” but then you have to out yourself so it’s either that or nod along and go like-
SARAH: Right, right.
KAYLA: “For sure I also feel those attractions, definitely”
SARAH: And even allo queer people can participate in those conversations-
KAYLA: Oh for sure
SARAH: without outing yourself. Whether they just, whether they just lie about pronouns or whatever they do, they can still participate in those conversations without it necessarily becoming dangerous for them, but for aspecs you either make shit up, you don’t participate, or you out yourself, those are your options.
KAYLA: Yeah and I feel like in the queer community—
(20:00)
KAYLA: with other sexualities, we’ve talked about this, when you realize you’re gay you have outward gay - I mean maybe I don’t know - you have outward gay experiences with another person whether that be dating or sex or something else, but when you’re aspecs it’s that you don’t necessarily have those experiences, so even in the queer community there’s a lot of talk about like… it kind of goes back to us going back to the love is love thing...
SARAH: Right the queer community also revolves around sex and romance in the exact same way that straight commmunities do.
KAYLA: Right, but for a lot of like queer people it’s so intertwined with their coming out or their coming to terms with their identity process-
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: like “oh I had this romantic or sexual interaction with this person and that’s when I realized” or something like that and so I feel like its- its, not even more common, but it has a different weight in the queer community that also makes it hard for aspecs to feel included, even in that community that we should belong to-
SARAH: Mm.
KAYLA: Does that make sense?
SARAH: I think so. I think it’s also a part of, like, you know, I found out that my cousin is queer when I found out she was engaged to a woman, and like...
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: That’s not something an aspec person can do. They can’t just come out by saying this is my partner. I mean you could say this is my partner, but you would have to do a lot more explaining.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And you know, again, thats just the whole social expectations, but yeah even to accepting communities of other queer folks, the social - they still abide by a lot of the social expectations that aspecs don’t.
KAYLA: Right. And again, not to say that like no one should be talking about sex or romance or anything-
SARAH: Yeah!
KAYLA: because it is very important to a lot of people, it's just the idea that like...
SARAH: The mandatory nature of it.
KAYLA: - that it should be important to everyone, not just we should talk about this when there’s something important to talk about, not the default “oh I’m small talking a person I just met,” or like “oh I’ve run out of things to talk to my friends about so this is what we’re gonna always default to”
SARAH: Yeah, you talk about the weather and then you talk about your love life (laughs) like that’s you know-
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: -especially with younger people. Thanks, I hate it!
KAYLA: It’s just like you know in our survey for our book — just plugin’ the book — there were a decent amount of people, I feel like it was split maybe half and half of people being like kind of your mentality of like I don’t give a fuck and other people who were like seemed like genuinely really sad and kind of just really-
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: -very hurt and unsure of what to do because of this problem-
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: of feeling very left out, feeling like they had to date or had to have sex because that’s what everyone is doing and talking about. It-I don’t know - it’s just sad because it almost feels like if asexuality and aromanticism and the spectrums were more known then it would be like, I don’t know — if the community was bigger and more available, because I feel like for us, maybe, the reason you’re so okay with it is that you know you have a community of people that aren’t doing that that you could go talk to?
SARAH: Mm, right.
KAYLA: But for people who don’t have any other aspecs in their life it's like “well this is what I’m stuck with” and like there’s no one else I can go to.
SARAH: And even before I knew other aspecs, I, you know, was surrounded by other people who in high school didn’t necessarily date, or didn’t date as much. Or they maybe dated but it wasn’t super important to them. And that kind of continued into college too, where I feel like, the people I was friends with in college, well some of them date, but some of them were just in very long term relationships some of them just like had only one relationship, only one person that they had ever dated in all of college or throughout the entire time, or they weren’t dating around, like they weren’t going on a lot of dates.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And like, that might just be the kinds of people I attract, but it definitely, it’s definitely made it easier for me because I haven’t felt as pressured into having those conversations and I wish that was everyone’s experience like I wish all aspec people got to have the experience where, you know, they can have these conversations with people and feel involved and feel welcome without feeling like they have to pretend or make something up. And I mean, to a certain extent, I did that too when I was younger, but I didn’t necessarily understand why at the time, you know?
KAYLA: Yeah.
(25:00)
SARAH: And once I understood my identity I kind of stopped doing that, so I would like that, for all aspecs, once they understand I want them to feel like they don’t have to lie and stuff but a lot of people still do because of, you know, the way the whole thing’s built.
KAYLA: Well yeah, ‘cause like we said, you can’t always come out, and you don’t always have people there. Which is especially like, if you live somewhere with less people like a smaller town, or just less diverse, like I have to imagine for a good amount of people this does affect the building of friendships and relationships-
SARAH: Yeah!
KAYLA: Especially if the people you’re around care a lot about this, because I can imagine a world where like “Okay we’re sitting around and having girl talk, but okay Stacy is not very involved in our conversation, she’s so off putting, she thinks she’s better than us” like I can just imagine so many petty middle school situations where someone gets ousted out of a friend group because they’re not interested in this conversation-
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Obviously that’s a very dramatic preteen situation-
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But I feel like it does carry into adulthood. Even in not being married when all your friends are married or like, you know, not doing those big life steps.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: It moves all the way through that like- it does affect how you socialize and how you build relationships because if this is something that's super important and that all certain people talk about then you’re not gonna be able to build relationships with them if that’s their most important thing.
SARAH: If you’re not actively participating in these relationships that seem to be so important to everyone else and that seem to take up so much of the time of everyone else, you’re not going to make strong bonds with those people-
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: You’re gonna be separated from them.
KAYLA: It’s like having a similar interest as someone, it’s not like you all have to have the same interests, but if someone has one thing that super interests them, and you don’t want much to do with it, then it’s gonna make it a lot harder to have a friendship.
SARAH: Yeah, yeah. And as we said at the top, we can’t speak as much to the way that men are socialized, but I think you know, we know that with men it’s a lot more to do with sex, and talking about sex, and less the romance of it all and more of just like Gettin’ Down with some Bitches.
KAYLA: I even remember - I think I’ve said this on an episode before, but I once had a male friend tell me that kids in middle school made fun of him for not watching porn.
SARAH: Yikes. It’s kind of...
KAYLA: But like- … And that’s the kind of thing I think maybe starts really young like oh locker room talk or like, just a bunch of dudes.
SARAH: Mm.
KAYLA: I mean I think when you’re younger it’s like talking about crushes and stuff before people start having sex. Do I know when people start having sex these days, absolutely not.
SARAH: No (laughs).
KAYLA: But I’m sure it does kind of start out as a crush type of thing but as you get older I do think it transfers more and more to who’s getting laid and who's doing whatever and especially when you get into college and adulthood and for men, men are supposed to be highly sexual beings...
SARAH: “supposed to” quote unquote
KAYLA: Right. It’s- I think that’s one of the hardest things about being an asexual person who was raised, socialized as a man is you’re going directly against that.
SARAH: And I think too specifically with like teenage boys, I think because the whole sexuality puberty thing takes place in a more physical way than with girls...
KAYLA: Mm.
SARAH: Of just like, of like a poor little kid getting a boner and there’s nothing he can do about it.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: That’s just a biological thing, but it’s visible and that forces you into certain conversations about sex in a way that teenage girls aren’t forced into those conversations because it’s not something you can visually latch onto.
(30:00)
KAYLA: Yeah, cause thinking of the physicality of it, for women the only thing you can really compare I guess is how big your boobs are, but for guys-
SARAH: Yeah but that doesn’t necessarily mean anything at all, not that anything means anything but you know what I mean.
KAYLA: Yeah, but having big boobs doesn’t make you better at sex necessarily, you know?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But I keep going back to the locker room scene because that’s such a big thing, at least in American schools-
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Of like a lot of preteen angst and anxiety going around, around having to change around other people, but for guys it’s like your pepis is right there and that’s like your main sex thing.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So it does make it like, it’s right there!
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: It makes it easier to talk about.
SARAH: The weird physicality of it all.
KAYLA: Masturbation and stuff. Girls aren’t supposed to do that, so they might not talk about it as much, but for guys they’re supposed to do it all the time and so we’re talk about it all the time, and if you don’t happen to do it then you’re gonna be like the weird one.
SARAH: Yeah… Yeah and it definitely- there is a whole other weird layer of it with people socialized as men-
KAYLA: Because as a man to be single when you’re older is fine.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like you still might have your mom getting on you, or people being like “Oh you’re such a sweet boy, why don’t you settle down” but it’s much more okay to be a bachelor-
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: and be like I’m super focused on work because I’m a man who works at JP Morgan, than be a woman who- and again excuses and motives rather than just not being interested-
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: but you know it’s a lot more acceptable for men to just be like no!
SARAH: Yeah well, and it’s also just assumed that they’re, you know, taking care of their urges in other ways. Whereas for women, it’s like okay if you’re not dating someone then you’re probably not having sex, you’re not supposed to be having sex.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: (BIG sigh) Shit’s fucked.
KAYLA: Shit is fucked. It just makes- I don’t know, it’s just sad, because I know there’s a lot of people like you who’re like I’m fine-
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: - but I also know there’s genuinely like a lot of aspec people who’re like that’s like one of the hardest things about...
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: Being aspec. What it comes down to is you see the world differently that that manifests-
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: That really never goes away. Like no matter how old you get or what situation you’re in. Moving from school to work to like-
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I feel like even after you retire, you know, if you happen to be single, you know..
SARAH: Yeah. It’s all about fitting in, humans want to fit in humans want feel like part of the group, humans want to be liked and when you can’t participate in the- the rituals that those communities do together, it’s...I mean you start to get separated from that and you don’t feel like you’re part of the community and you don’t feel like you’re liked and you don’t feel like you are a part of the group and thats I mean on some people that’s really fucking hard, because as I said, we’re humans we’re pack animals we want- we want that validation so if you’re in a community, in a society, in a whatever that really only, where there’s only one way of existing and you have to conform to that it can be really disheartening and really difficult if you can’t or won’t conform to that.
KAYLA: Yeah. And I think it presents like different issues no matter where you are on the spectrum. Because I feel like maybe a lot of this we’re talking from the perspective of someone who doesn’t want to have sex at all or date at all, but even for me as a demisexual if I’m having a conversation with someone about sex or something I feel like I especially experienced this in college, the way I go about dating and sex is fundementally different from someone who’s allo, and they’re not going understand that, it’s going to make the conversation harder, they’re maybe going to have questions like, “Well why do you date like that?” “Oh you think you’re better than me, blah blah blah” that whole thing about demisexuals. But no matter where you are on the spectrum like maybe you’re the most sex-favorable asexual person out there, the way you think about sex and experience and don’t experience that attraction is still so different-
KAYLA: -that you’re not gonna, even if you have sex and date the same as everyone else, the mindset and the attraction is so different, there is still gonna be adisconnect, and it’s still not going to be quite right.
(35:00)
SARAH: You don’t fit the standard.
KAYLA: Right you’re not dating or thinking about dating in the same way. And you’re not experience attraction or thinking about attraction in the same way and people when they’re talking about that thing might not use words like attraction and be like “I was so sexually attracted to this man at this moment!”
SARAH: (laughs)
KAYLA: But we all know...
SARAH: Context clues.
KAYLA: Even if we go through the same motions as you, the motives behind it are maybe not the same.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So it’s still really disconnecting no matter where you are on that spectrum.
SARAH: Yeah or you may be able to relate to the conversation on the romance front and everything there you know, lines up with your experience but then when it comes to sex, if you’re demi, you know, you may feel like “ok cool, I’m part of the group for part of this conversation” but then it takes a turn and you’re like “Oh fuck I’m not a part of this in the same way” and they, people expect you to be and you have to be like “No I experience this differently” and then you’re like “now I’m doing a TedTalk on demisexuality (laughs).
KAYLA: Well yeah like, I’m thinking of like, people who are in, like maybe you are alloromantic and asexual and you’re in a long term relationship people are gonna — if they don’t know that you’re asexual — they’re going to assume certain things about your relationship-
SARAH: Mhm Yeah.
KAYLA: They’re gonna assume you’re having sex, because that’s whats assumed.
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: So say you’re talking to your friends who are also in long-term relationships, you’re talking about relationship troubles or whatever. This person is like lamenting that they don’t have sex any more and it’s this huge big thing, and they ask you about are you gonna out yourself and then… Something I saw in the survey was like “I’m in a long term relationship my partner is not aspec and so when I tell people that I’m aspec they now know things about me, but they now know things about my partner and our joint sex life”
SARAH: Yeah. Yeah.
KAYLA: And so you’re putting things out into the world about you AND someone else.
SARAH: Whether those assumptions are true or not, like whether those assumptions are true or not!
KAYLA: Right and it shouldn’t be a big thing ideally whether you’re having sex or not, and we would wish that the partner wouldn’t be embarrassed by that being out there but that’s just how that is, so that just makes it even harder when those assumptions are there and the only way to refute them is by fully coming out.
SARAH: Yeah and also you kind of have the other situation, of no sex until marriage, abstinence blah blah blah, and you can always use that excuse like “oh yeah we’re very Christian”-
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: but there are expectations once you’re married. And in super evangelical, Mormon communities like they’re like not allowed to talk about sex, not allowed to whatever, but once they’re married it’s like here are the expectations, you have to be doing this, you have-
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: You must please your husband, and that’s a whole ‘nother beast.
KAYLA: That kind of expectation, I think we could do a whole podcast about that. Like when you’re younger and you don’t date, you’re good. Your parents are like “oh we never had to worry about her dating, it was so good!” and then you hit like 20 it’s “well you need to date so we can get grandchildren”
SARAH: Yeah whatcha doin?
KAYLA: It’s like when does that switch flip. I feel like it’s very confusing for an aspec person going from “oh I’m the good girl who my parents are proud of for never dating and suddenly it’s a problem, what happened here?”
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: That’s a whole other thing, though.
SARAH: Ugh I hate it! Do you have anything else to add to this?
KAYLA: I wish I could be like and here’s how to fix it! But like...
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Because there’s only like, you know, obviously the best advice is to find friends who you feel comfortable sharing your perspective with-
SARAH: Mhm.
KAYLA: Who you could maybe come out and would understand. Or even without coming out would understand that’s not something you’re super interested in.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But that’s really hard to do sometimes.
SARAH: yeah. And a lot of times you can’t be like “I’m looking for friends who will respect this aspect of me” like you can’t do that without coming out. (laughs)
KAYLA: RIght because that’s a weird thing to say without context.
SARAH: Exactly.
KAYLA: It seems very random. I don’t know, it’s tough out here for a ho.
SARAH: It’s tough out here for a bitch. Ummm well Kayla what is our poll for this week?
KAYLA: Mmm hm hmmm. I don’t know.
(40:00)
SARAH: Is it hard out here for a bitch? Yes or Yes? Um, I mean maybe, maybe we could kinda do a poll of like, of the aspecs in the world who’s a me, who’s a Sarah in that they don’t give a fuck, and who’s someone that’s like, like, are you more of a Sarah, or you someone that still struggles with that, or are you somewhere pingponging in between, I’m just kind of curious to see what- where our listeners are at in terms of that and there’s not a right or wrong answer necessarily but...
KAYLA: I don’t know how to write that.
SARAH: Well on a scale of Sad to Sarah.
KAYLA: Right now I’ve written down, “are you a Sarah or do you be sad?” I’m hoping future me will understand that and come up with something.
SARAH: Okay. Kayla… What is your beef and your juice this week?
KAYLA: Um, my beef is anxiety.
SARAH: Mm a classic!
KAYLA: Just not fun.
SARAH: Recurring villain on this season.
KAYLA: Yeah, really it is kind of lurking-
SARAH: Series regular.
KAYLA: in the plot line of our show. I woke up at like 4 am to go to the like (British accent) bathroom. And then I was awake because I had to go to the bathroom and for some reason I was like, it’s time to be anxious about the fact that I don’t know what my Christmans travel plans will be because I have two cats and partner whose parents live on the other side of the country from mine, and this is not a problem I can fix without my partner being there, he’s not home. It’s 4 am there’s nothing I can do about it, and I couldn’t go back to sleep because I was so concerned about and I had to put the Great British Baking Show on the television to fall back asleep to and it was still, it was like an intrusive thought, a couple thoughts I still went back and I had to be like “no no!”
SARAH: No no no.
KAYLA: We are watching the cooking!
SARAH: We are talking about the bake! Are there soggy bottoms? (laughs)
KAYLA: We need to, we need to concentrate. So that’s fun. My juice? I got a standing desk that’s fun.
SARAH: Finally arrived, package.
KAYLA: Long awaited. I did throw out my back probably moving all my furniture in my house. It didn’t need to happen but it did. Um Yeah!
SARAH: Okay! My beef is.... So I-I-I went out over the weekend, there was BTS night so we went ham (laughs). Which was very fun, the problem is that the next day my body said, I’m just gonna like ache and hurt, and it’s not like I’m - I’m not in shape, but I’m not so out of shape that that would cause me- my body was just like “now my shoulders are mad at me now!” What? And it's still annoying and bad and I’m taking a redeye in a couple days which is only going to make it worse.
KAYLA: Yayyyyy!
SARAH: Super excited to leave straight from work to go to the hellscape that is LAX to fly to New York to spend an hour on the subway to make myself look human to I roll up to Comic Con.
KAYLA: Yeah Sarah is not sleeping before we do our panel, so very interested to see how that goes.
SARAH: Yeah I mean I hope I sleep some on the plane, but I...
KAYLA: I also hope that!
SARAH: I- no guarantees. Um, my juice is… it’s still the fuckin’ Key album, it’s so good.
KAYLA: Hm!
SARAH: Also in the song Saturday Night, who is Zachary, who is Stacy? These are the questions that haunt me. Kayla, for our listeners, I don’t know why I addressed this to you, this isn’t addressed to you.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Hey, hey, hey listeners. If you wanna tell us about your beef, your juice, your theories about who Zachary and Stacy are, you can hit us up on our social media @soundsfakepod. We also have a Patreon patreon.com/soundsfake pod. Our $5 patrons that we are promoting this week are: Colleen Walsh, Mattie, Super Sarah, BAGEL, and Edward Hayes-HolgATE! And we have a new $5 patron it is Brandon Smith. (singing) Thank you Brandon~
KAYLA: (singing) Welcome Brandon~
SARAH: Our $10 patrons who we’re promoting this week are: Simona Sajmon who would like to promote QYS magazine, which is it’s Slovak magazine for queer people, Rosie Costello who’d like to promote sticks preferably long sticks — (whispers) Rosie you’re the best — Hector Murillo who’d like to promote friends that are supportive, constructive, and help you grow as a better person, and you know what we’ll throw in one more, we’ve got Jay who’d like to promote their podcast out_cast. We also have a new $10 patron which me and Kayla are both confused and baffled by, but very intrigued.
(45:00)
KAYLA: The most baffling patron request we’ve ever received.
SARAH: David Nurse, are you okay? Was your hangover bad? Did you find your sweater on the London Underground?
KAYLA: David would like to promote the fact that they lost their sweater on the London Underground. So do we know-
SARAH: David called it a jumper, but we’re translating it into American (laughs).
KAYLA: Do we know what the sweater looks like?
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: Where you might find it in the London Underground?
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: No. There’s just a sweater on the London Underground and David really wants you to know about it.
SARAH: David we are confused by your messages, but we support you, and we hope that you find your sweater.
KAYLA: I don’t know that you will-
SARAH: I don’t- I hope you get a new equally as good or even better sweater-
KAYLA: Yeah. Yes.
SARAH: Is what I hope for you, David. Our other $10 patrons are: Arcnes, Benjamin Ybarra, Anonymous, my Aunt Jeannie, Cass, Doug Rice, H. Valdís, Barefoot Backover, The Steve — backover that’s what I said, Barefoot Backover — The Steve, Ari K., Mattie, Derek and Carissa, Khadir, Potater, Changeling MX, DAVID JAY, The Stubby Tech, and that’s it. Our $15 patrons are: Nathaniel White, NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com, my mom Julie who’d like to promote Free Mom Hugs and the fact that she went upstairs!
KAYLA: Mm.
SARAH: She had her knee replaced a couple weeks ago so that’s a big deal. She went all the way up the stairs, all of them. Huge news.
KAYLA: That’s very exciting!
SARAH: (laughs) uh, Sara Jones who is @eternalloli everywhere, Martin Chiesel who’d like to promote his podcast, Everyone’s Special and No One Is, Leila who’d like to promote “Love is love” also applying to aro people, Shrubbery who’d like to promote The Planet Earth, Sherronda J Brown, Maggie Capalbo who’d like to promote their dogs Leia, Minnie, and Loki, Andrew Hillum who’d like to promote The Invisible Spectrum Podcast, Click4Caroline who I finally fuckin checked to see what she promoted-
KAYLA: Mm!
SARAH: -and you know what she never answered us (laughs). And we have messaged her on other platforms since then, just you know, we never got an answer so Caroline is promoting, uh, uh, Dear Luke, Love, Me and Dragonfly who’d like to promote… my fall candle that I like very much. Our $20 patrons are: Sarah T who’d like to promote long walks outside, and HomHomofSpades who’d like to promote getting enough vitamin D while holding your beloved fall candle. Thanks for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears!
KAYLA: And until then take good care of your cows.
(47:47)