Sounds Fake But Okay
Sounds Fake But Okay
Ep 37: Questioning Your Sexuality
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Hey what's up hello! Today Kayla and Sarah talk about how they each discovered and questioned their sexuality and how they continue to question it even now.
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SARAH: Hey what’s up hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I’m Sarah. That’s me.)
KAYLA: And a demi straight girl (that’s me, Kayla.)
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else that we just don’t understand.
KAYLA: On today’s episode: Questioning your sexuality
BOTH: — Sounds fake, but okay.
*Intro music*
SARAH: Sounds fake but okay. Welcome back to the pod.
KAYLA: Listen here –
SARAH: Kayla’s so sleepy.
KAYLA: I'm so tired. This is going to come out like a month from now, at this point.
SARAH: But we're currently recording.
KAYLA: We're recording and today's my birthday.
SARAH: She was born just today.
KAYLA: I was born just today and I'm a day old, but really I'm 21 years old, which means we went out last night at like midnight and I feel like trash.
SARAH: Because the drinking age in the United States is 21.
KAYLA: It is.
SARAH: But I couldn't go with her because I'm not 21.
KAYLA: Would you have gone if you were?
SARAH: I mean, I would have gone.
KAYLA: You just wouldn't have had a good time. We listened to people sing really shitty karaoke at the first we went to which was exciting. One girl was really good actually and everyone else was like, why?
SARAH: And then after that they went to this place that's famous here for being the worst, but also a place that everyone goes.
KAYLA: It’s kind of like you have to go at least once, but it's usually packed and sticky and sweaty and gross.
SARAH: But it was a Tuesday night.
KAYLA: It was a Tuesday night and the year is over, so most people are home, so we were the only people in there, it was us and two other people. It was so funny. They gave us control of the AUX cord, it was a great time.
SARAH: I feel like that's a great first experience at Rick's.
KAYLA: I think that's probably the only good experience you can have at Rick's.
SARAH: Yeah, probably. All right. Well, this week we're talking about a topic that was requested a long time ago.
KAYLA: Literally probably a year ago.
SARAH: And we haven't been doing this for a year.
KAYLA: We're almost a year old, though.
SARAH: We started doing it in August.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: It's May.
KAYLA: Yeah, but –
SARAH: All right.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But it was requested by someone who's been following us on Twitter for a long time. Kayla, stop that. She's just looking at me through her donut pillow. But the person who requested it is, I think it’s @arcnes_darkheart.
KAYLA: You probably have seen them on our Twitter, if you follow us, honestly.
SARAH: Yeah. Their name is Arcnes/Pip.
KAYLA: Hi, Pip.
SARAH: Hi.
KAYLA: We're very interactive on Twitter, it’s a good time.
SARAH: I actually don't know this person's gender.
KAYLA: Yeah, because their profile's a cartoon.
SARAH: Yeah, so I'm not sure if that's them or not.
KAYLA: If it is, it's a very pretty picture, with some blue hair.
SARAH: It is. It's got lots of blue hair. But, yeah, so this was requested a long time ago, and it's something we've been meaning to do for a long time.
KAYLA: I feel like we've mentioned it in a lot of episodes, but we haven't done anything dedicated to it.
SARAH: And now we're just going to deep-dive.
KAYLA: Here we go, get your scuba gear on.
SARAH: Okay. So the first thing we could talk about here is our own experiences. So, sit down kids, you're about to hear my life story.
KAYLA: Eat a cracker, listen to her story.
SARAH: Yeah. All right, so we're going to start this story in elementary school.
KAYLA: Oh my God, we're going back.
SARAH: We have just watched the 2003 Peter Pan movie.
KAYLA: He’s so pretty.
SARAH: We’ve talked about this before –
KAYLA: With the pretty boy.
SARAH: With the pretty boy.
KAYLA: He's very pretty.
SARAH: He was like 14, so it's a little weird for us to say that now.
KAYLA: But it was okay when it came out.
SARAH: But it was okay because we were children. So I watched that movie, and I was like, wow, Peter Pan is great. But I didn't know if I had a crush on him, or if I wanted to be him.
KAYLA: (laughs) That's funny.
SARAH: Because let's be real, that's the kind of shit I love.
KAYLA: He's kind of a dick though.
SARAH: He's a little bit of a dick, but he's a dick –
KAYLA: In the way that a 12 year old boy is though, I guess.
SARAH: Right, but he's a dick with –
KAYLA: Good morals?
SARAH: He's a good person, but he's a dick.
KAYLA: Yeah, but he's just a dick.
SARAH: He's like Lance Hunter on Agents of Shield. Anyway, so that was that. I didn't think about it much as a child, and then I remember in fifth grade, there was this kid in my class and one of my friends told me that he had a crush on me.
KAYLA: I love that.
SARAH: And so I was like, okay, I guess how this works is I have a crush on him. So I decided that I was going to have a crush on him back, because that's what you do. And so I just decided that, and then – Wait, okay, I don't know if I’ve said this on the pod before or not?
KAYLA: I don't even know what you're about to say, have you said it ever?
SARAH: So I decided I was going to have a crush on him and that was all chill, and then in eighth grade we had to create these biome things, so we had a cardboard box and we were given a type of environment. Ours was tundra or something, and you had to recreate it in this box. Most people were in groups of three, but there was one group of two and guess what? It was me and this kid.
KAYLA: I've never heard this story.
SARAH: Well, now you're hearing it. So it's me and this kid and I'm like, oh my God, the drama. Because I've decided to have a crush on him, right?
KAYLA: That was like three years ago though. I think it was in fifth grade that you decided to have a crush on him.
SARAH: This all happened in fifth grade.
KAYLA: Oh, I thought you said eighth grade, okay. Don’t mind me.
SARAH: But then I was sick for two days and they started doing the biomes when I was sick, and I came back and he had started doing things, and he had drawn –
KAYLA: Oh, I do know this story. I do.
SARAH: He had drawn mountains in the background and I did not like the way he drew them the mountains. I thought they were very ugly, so I decided to stop having a crush on him.
KAYLA: Honestly, if you were not ace, that is something that you would do anyway, I think. It's like stop having a crush actually on someone, for something that fucking dumb.
SARAH: I know.
KAYLA: That is just very on brand.
SARAH: Also it's weird, because when I was in first, second grade, when I was in young elementary school, all of my friends were guys and one of them had a crush on me and it was awkward, but we were still friends.
KAYLA: Great.
SARAH: But then two of them moved, it was like there was a group of four of us, and then two of them moved and then the other one, I ended up continuing to go to school with him all through high school, but we weren't really that good of friends and it was like just the two of us. So I started becoming friends with girls, and then I did not have a male friend until high school.
KAYLA: I did not really have male friends until high school, and even in high school, I did not have many.
SARAH: Yeah. It was just weird because I went [from] only male friends to only female friends.
KAYLA: You know what I think it is? Is a lot of my friends with brothers have a lot more guy friends, and it think it's because we grow up with guys, and so they understand that you just socialize with them normally.
SARAH: That is interesting. Also because most of my cousins are girls too.
KAYLA: Yeah, same.
SARAH: Yeah, it's wild. Okay, anyway, so then we're going to fast forward. Nothing happened in middle school at all, so we went to high school and then we're in ninth grade and there's this kid who I now know is
KAYLA: Kind of a dick.
SARAH: He turned into a dick, he wasn't a dick at the time. He was marginally attractive for a freshman in high school. And he was kind of smart, and I knew him, and we had some mutual friends, our lockers were pretty close to each other.
KAYLA: Oh, that's how you know.
SARAH: And I was just like, he seems like the kind of person that a person would want to date. So I was like – I once again just decided that I was going to have a crush on him. And then two days later I was like, whatever, and then I stopped.
KAYLA: Got bored with that right quick.
SARAH: Yeah. So then we're going to jump – So that was literally the end of that. Then there was another experience where this kid had a crush on me, and my friend called me to ask me out for him –
KAYLA: Oh I hate that.
SARAH: But he didn't really want her to do it and then it was really awkward because I didn't really know him that well.
KAYLA: I hate this.
SARAH: And so it wasn't even like, I am not into you romantically. It was like, I don't really know you.
KAYLA: Like, I don't even know who you are. Yikes.
SARAH: So that was fun. And then he avoided me for the rest of high school.
KAYLA: Love that.
SARAH: But then we get to 10th grade, 10th grade is the first time I really actually, genuinely had a male friend, and we had math together. This person I know has at least once listened to the podcast, so hi if you're listening.
KAYLA: Can I say that I actually want this person to be on this podcast, so if he is listening – I want to delve into this story with both of you, because I just think it'd be interesting and good content and uncomfortable for everyone.
SARAH: Oh, it would be so uncomfortable.
KAYLA: So anyway, smash that yes button if you want that to happen.
SARAH: Because I've interacted with him since coming to college.
KAYLA: I had a class with him, because he goes to school with us.
SARAH: I had a class with him too.
KAYLA: And I never talked to him but I was texting you and he was texting you at the same time. And we were like, I'm sitting next to your high school friend. And he's like, I think I'm sitting next to your roommate. And we just didn't interact ever so, hi.
(10:00)
SARAH: We have actually the same major but I've never had a class in my major with him.
KAYLA: Incredible.
SARAH: Anyway, so we sat with each other, we sat at the same table in math and so apparently everyone else knew he had a crush on me, but I didn't because I was oblivious, and at the time I wasn't thinking about that at all. And so I – One day he texted me. He was like, hey, can I talk to you about something after fifth hour? Granted we're in fifth our right now.
KAYLA: That’s a scary text to receive. I don't like those texts.
SARAH: In that moment, suddenly I understood everything and I panicked.
KAYLA: And she ran.
SARAH: I was talking to my friend in that class with me and I was freaking out, and then went to talk to him and he asked me out and I panicked and said, I don't know. And then I was like, I'll get back to you, because I was in a panic. Here's the thing, I knew then that I was going to say no, at the time I didn't understand why. I didn't – I was just my gut instinct was no which was like, he's a perfectly nice kid. I was friends with him.
KAYLA: Right. So you thought logically you were like, I should be saying yes.
SARAH: I don't even think at that point I was thinking of it like that. I think it was just a blind panic, so I couldn't even think of that part.
KAYLA: Because in my mind I feel like I would think about that. It's like, why wouldn't I like him? He's a nice kid. We're friends. We get along.
SARAH: I was mostly in a blind panic because I didn't know how to reject him. And so I didn't give him an answer for a couple of days, because I didn't know how to do it and so then I was texting my friend who – Really, only one person knew at this point and it was the girl who I had the class with, when I got the text. And she was like, dude, you have to tell him. And so I was going to tell him face-to-face, but I'm really bad at face-to-face shit.
KAYLA: You texted him.
SARAH: No. I had a good excuse.
KAYLA: (groans) Oh no, no, no.
SARAH: Okay, we had a snow day that day and so I was like either I text him now, or I make him wait the whole weekend.
KAYLA: Okay. Would you have texted him anyway?
SARAH: I don't know. It was a very good excuse.
KAYLA: (groans)
SARAH: I really didn't want to have to do it face-to-face. So then that happened, but then we still stayed friends, but I wasn't super honest about the reason. I was hedging it because I didn't want to make him feel bad, but I also –
KAYLA: You didn’t really know at the time.
SARAH: Didn’t really understand why I was saying no, and so I couldn't convey that to him.
And so then later in the year, he was like, hey. Because one of the reasons [I gave], I was like, I just have a lot going on. And he was like, now that, you know, whatever’s done –
KAYLA: Oh no.
SARAH: He basically asked me again – This part was via text, and I was horrible.
KAYLA: Sarah what did you – I really don't know this part of the story, because you've been too upset about it.
SARAH: I hate it.
KAYLA: You've never – I know the beginning part of the story and I asked about the end part, because I knew there was more but Sarah has never told it to me, because you feel so bad.
SARAH: I feel really bad.
KAYLA: You ghosted him.
SARAH: No, I didn't ghost him. I did what every horrible high schooler does and I subtweeted him.
KAYLA: (exclaims) No. Oh Sarah.
SARAH: I know, I know what I’ve done. And then later on, he texted me, I don't remember if I texted him back or what I did, but he was like, it's okay, whatever.
KAYLA: You're so lucky he doesn't hate your guts.
SARAH: Yeah, he's so nice. But then we stayed friends but there was always this – A little bit of a weirdness and then the next fall, it was around homecoming and one of our mutual friends asked me and she was like, if he asks you to homecoming, would you say yes? And I was like, I already have plans to go with my friends. So she was like, okay.
And then he started dating someone not that long after that. I think it was at some point that year. I don't know, it was within the year, because by senior year he was dating her, and they're still together. And then after that our relationship went back to normal because I was not afraid that something was going to happen anymore.
KAYLA: You did it.
SARAH: Yeah, so that's fun. But yeah, I still feel really –
KAYLA: What was the subtweet?
SARAH: I don't remember exactly what it was.
KAYLA: Do you know an idea of what it was?
SARAH: I have a vague idea, but I don't know how well I would be able to describe it. I just feel very – and it's a stupid thing, it's not like I ruined his life.
KAYLA: But it was not a nice thing to do.
SARAH: But it wasn't the appropriate way to go about it. Obviously in high school no one's going to do the right thing, but I still feel really guilty about it.
KAYLA: Oh, Sarah.
SARAH: Sorry. Anyway, we're moving forward. Junior year nothing happened, and then senior year – So senior year was prom, and prom is a thing. At my school the way it went, okay also, for those of you who aren't Americans, homecoming is a dance that happens in the fall every year in high school. It's like a dance, what you all Brits would call a disco.
KAYLA: What the hell? Absolutely not.
SARAH: And at some schools you really have to have a date for homecoming. My school, that wasn't the case.
KAYLA: No, when I went to prom, people went as groups of friends.
SARAH: Yeah, so homecoming, I never had a date, I was just going with my friends. Most of my friends also didn't have dates for homecoming.
KAYLA: Yeah, same.
SARAH: But then for prom, so some schools do a junior prom and a senior prom, some schools do a junior-senior prom, also for those of you who aren't American, junior is third year and senior is fourth year. But my school only did senior prom, so it was just prom, and most people went with a date, and you could only go if you weren't a senior if you were the date of someone who was a senior. So most people have dates for senior prom, even if you are not dating them, you tend to try to find a date.
So the vast – Not a vast majority but a majority of my friends, even if they had never had a date for homecoming before, got themselves a prom date. Whether or not they ever spoke to each other after prom was you know. whatever. My closest friend in high school, she ended up going with the kid who I had a crush on for two days in freshman year, and then he ended up dating one of my friends for a long time and that didn't end well. But yeah, they got a date, I think there were three, I had three friends who didn't have dates to prom, and I also didn't have a date to prom because I didn't really try to find a date to prom.
I don't know there was maybe – I feel like the kid who the thing happened with in 10th grade, I feel like if he had – Obviously if he hadn't had a girlfriend, and he’d asked me to prom, I probably would have said yes, just being like, we're going as friends. But I wouldn't have really said yes to anyone else. And so I didn't actively seek out a prom date, and I was fine with that, my friends were always like, okay. And I had a couple of friends who also didn't have dates so the only time it was weird was when there's this slow dance, and so I found my friends that also didn't have dates, and we dramatically lip synced to, what's that song? Don't Want to Miss a Thing, that song?
KAYLA: They always do that stuff at prom.
SARAH: We dramatically lip synced together, and our teachers, the chaperone teachers were just staring at us and it was great. But it didn't bother me that I didn't want to date or have a date. Some other people were like, that's a little weird. But I was like, I don't fucking care. So then we get to college and once we got college –
KAYLA: You met Kayla and we found love.
SARAH: But once I got to college, I started being like, okay, I'm still not – Because going through high school, even in middle school, people started being like, oh, I have a crush on so-and-so. And I never really experienced that, and I was like, oh lol, I'm a late bloomer. It'll be later, lol. Like the musical I wrote, basically it's the same thing. But then by the time I got to college I was like, hmm.
KAYLA: So when we got to college pretty early on I started having a thing with a kid in our hall.
SARAH: Honestly I didn't know for a while that that was happening.
KAYLA: Right, but once you did, did that also make you think anything?
SARAH: I don't think so.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: No. But I was just like, huh, okay. And I don't know how it happened, because I knew that ace people – Oh, I forgot something.
(20:00)
KAYLA: (gasps)
SARAH: Okay, wait, so this was probably like 11th grade, so my third year of high school, junior year. So I was a pretty active Tumblr user at the time, and there was a girl who I followed on Tumblr, she was older than me and I really respected her, and she is, I don't know if she's gay but she definitely, the last two people she's dated have been girls. She falls on that spectrum, but I also knew her from the Five Seconds of Summer fandom so she might not be totally lesbian, whatever, it doesn't matter. The point is, not straight.
And I remember she posted something about how ace people shouldn't be allowed to use the word queer to describe themselves. And I got what at the time, seemed irrational, but i got irrationally upset by that and I messaged her on anonymous and I was like, hey, what do you mean by that? And she was like, they can claim to be a part of the LGBTQ spectrum, but they shouldn't be able to use the word queer.
KAYLA: That makes no sense, if you have one, you should have the other.
SARAH: Yeah, but that just upset me a lot as a small child, and I didn’t totally understand why.
KAYLA: Small child?
SARAH: There was also in high school, a hot second... I keep remembering things now. So there was also a hot second in high school where I was like, I might be demi. And then I was like, no, definitely not. And I just pushed that out. Anyway, jumping back to college, and I was like, okay, nothing has happened yet so I started looking up stuff about the ace community and I found AVEN and stuff but it was all very secret. And then –
KAYLA: Didn't you say that sometimes I'd come back in the dorm room and you'd change tabs and stuff.
SARAH: Yeah. And so then we were in a musical and I played a character who was gay, who had to kiss another character, and I had never kissed anyone because nothing had ever happened in my life, and I was very nervous about it. And it ended up being fine, but I was also – Because you knew and Asritha knew that I had never kissed anyone.
KAYLA: Yeah, but you didn't want anyone else to know.
SARAH: But I didn't want other people to know, because I didn't know how they would react, but I was able to play it off as like, oh, never kissed a girl before, hahaha, not specifying I've never kissed anyone before. And after having done that I was just like, what's the big deal about this? It's like any other action. Kissing is not exciting. And then I feel like it was around that time where I was like, I knew first that I was ace, I didn't know necessarily what my romantic orientation was because I've had probably twice, maybe two and a half times where there has been someone, they've all been guys, where I can't tell if I have a crush on them or if I really just want to be their friend.
KAYLA: Bitch, who?
SARAH: Bitch, you can't know.
KAYLA: Why?
SARAH: That's the one thing I won't tell you.
KAYLA: Why?
SARAH: At least not yet.
KAYLA: Okay, but why?
SARAH: Because. In like, 10 years I’ll tell you.
KAYLA: I don't want to know you in 10 years if you're not going to tell me this right now.
SARAH: That's rude. No, I'm not telling you.
KAYLA: Are you embarrassed?
SARAH: No. I'm not telling you.
KAYLA: You're just being a bitch.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Cool.
SARAH: But basically it's been like, I can't tell if I really want to be this person's friend or if I have a crush on them. And so that made me question for a long time what my romantic orientation was.
KAYLA: I remember you still questioning that.
SARAH: Yeah, because I knew I was ace, but I really couldn't tell if I had a crush on whatever or not. So, you found out I was ace.
KAYLA: Yeah, so I don't when you decided, but it was over the summer after our freshman year and we followed each other on Tumblr which –
SARAH: And that was back what you still sort of used Tumblr.
KAYLA: Yeah, I don't really use Tumblr. Side note, before we followed each other, I knew what your blog was because we had talked about it, and I knew that you often posted stuff on their about how you were doing. And so I would sometimes go to your Tumblr to check on you, because I knew that you would post how you were feeling.
SARAH: I don't do that anymore.
KAYLA: I know you don't, but you did it at the time and so I would go and I would check on you.
SARAH: Amazing.
KAYLA: So you posted something about –
SARAH: It was one of those things where you get tagged in it, and it's a bunch of things about you, and I remember it was sexual orientation and I was like, I think I wrote – I don't remember, because I didn't say aro at the time.
KAYLA: Yeah, you didn't.
SARAH: But I said ace and then in parentheses I was like, lol surprise @people I know in real life.
KAYLA: Yeah. And so I saw that, and instead of I don’t know, minding my own business, I texted you and I was like, hey –
SARAH: No, you messaged me on Tumblr.
KAYLA: Did I? I don't remember exactly what I said to you, do you? It was something like, oh, I saw your post, that's new, or something like that. And you were like, yeah. And I was like, cool.
SARAH: So Kayla was the first one to know. I've never actually really told anyone straight out.
KAYLA: (laughs) I tell everyone else. Well, because I start making a lot of jokes, good puns about it and those friends that we now live with, picked up on it, and they were just like, yeah, okay, whatever.
SARAH: (cutting in) Hold on, this is Sarah from the future, I'm editing. She did that because I told her she could. Don't just do that for people, to people. Only make jokes about that shit/tell other people if you've been given permission to do so. Okay, cool, thanks, bye.
SARAH: (continued) And then when I decided to come out generally to the world, it was Pride month and so I just put one of those Pride Facebook things -
KAYLA: That's how your family found out. You didn't even –
SARAH: Well, my parents saw it and they didn't – Well, my dad didn't have a Facebook account, but my mom saw it and she was like, oh that’s cool, and she didn't know what it meant and my sister texted me and she was like, hey, mom doesn't know what it means, do you want me to tell her what it means? Which was fun.
KAYLA: So I guess you've never really told anyone.
SARAH: No, not really.
KAYLA: That's exciting for you.
SARAH: Yeah, I know. Yeah, and then it gets into now, but for me it was definitely – It was never like, I don't know if I'm gay or if I'm straight. It was always just like an ‘I don't know what's happening’ sort of deal. There's my life story, that took a while.
KAYLA: It did.
SARAH: Kayla?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: How did you come to the realization?
KAYLA: Well, it's been very recent. So I think we talked about – I don't know if it was maybe even before you were out, or decided yet or what, but you were teaching me about the ace spectrum because I've never really heard of it before, I don't think. And so demi was one of them and I didn't really think much of it at the time, and I think it was when I was dating my last boyfriend who I started dating the summer after our freshman year. We didn't have sex for a long time, and I hadn't ever had sex at the time so I couldn't really tell if it was because I wasn't ready, and I was uncomfortable, just wasn't there yet or what, but it took a while.
And then over the course of that relationship I started thinking, I was like, huh, that happened. And also I remember really thinking about all the past crushes I've had and everything. And I was like, I've never really [been] sexually attracted to anyone. I never wanted to hook up with anyone. I remember having a conversation with someone freshman year and they were like, oh, I think want to wait until marriage. And I was like, yeah, me too. And at the time, it wasn't even for a religious reason, it just made sense to me. And now I think that comes from a place of being demi, but at the time I didn't really know why. I was just like, that feels right.
And so during the course of that relationship, I was thinking, oh, I might be demi. But it didn't matter because I was already having sex, and I was already in a relationship. So that relationship ended, throwback to episode seven or something. And so I started thinking about it more because I was like, when I go into the dating world now, when I'm ready, what am I going to do? Because I know I don't want to hook up with anyone and I got lucky with my other boyfriend, he wasn't pressuring me. He was like, whenever you're ready, I'm chill. Because he had been cheated on before and so he was like, I'm over sex really. I don't need it because it kind of screwed me over. And I was like, that's fair.
So I started having a thing with a kid I had a class with, so we'd hang out in class a lot and we'd talk and text a lot and he would come over and we would kiss and make out sometimes, whatever. And I never wanted to go further because we weren't an official thing, but I kept thinking in my head, if we were an official thing, I thing I might be more okay with it. And this was at a time where I was even more sure I was demi, but I didn't want to use the label, because I wasn't really comfortable with it yet. And so we had the talk where I was like, what are this? And he was like, oh, I got out of a really bad relationship recently, that fucked me up, so I don't want to do anything serious. I’d rather just keep it the way it is.
(30:00)
And at the time I was like, that's fine. And then like two days later I was like –
SARAH: It was never – It was not fine.
KAYLA: It was not fine. And so two days later, I was like, this is not for me. But I never told him that, because I think it was over winter break and so I remember texting you about it and I was like pretty sure by then I was demi and I was like, I hate this. And you were like, don't say that. And I was like, this fucking sucks.
SARAH: Yeah, no. She was getting mad at her deminess.
KAYLA: Yeah, because I was like, if I was a normal person, I could just have this relationship this way, and it would be fine.
SARAH: And then I yelled at her for saying, if she was a normal person.
KAYLA: And I cried in the car. I feel like we've definitely talked about this story before.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And so then I remember I was at a party one time, I was texting him, and I mentioned something about being demi. He was like, what is that? So I sent him the picture of the Google definition. And he was like, oh. And he took it as he thought that – He brought that up where he's making me feel bad about it or something, because I think I said – He asked what I was doing at the party, I was like oh, hanging out and being demi. And I think he took that to mean, he later told me, that being demi at a party was hard and I was having a bad time or whatever and I was like, what the fuck?
So then we just stopped talking, mutually ghosted each other, and then months later we talked about it and he was like, oh, I thought I'd make you feel this way. And I was like, no. And he was like, I didn't want to bring it up because I felt bad and it got all awkward and I was like, yeah, whatever. So by that time I was pretty sure. I was like, this bitch a demi.
SARAH: Yeah, because for new listeners, you may not know this but in earlier episodes, so at the very beginning I’m like, an aro-ace girl, I'm Sarah, that's me, and then you used to just say, and a straight girl.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: But now you say, and a demi straight girl.
KAYLA: Because that was the premise of the podcast when we first made it, it was me, a straight girl answering your aro-ace questions. We fucked it up now.
SARAH: Turns out.
KAYLA: Haven’t I gone and fucked it up? And then at that point I got back on Tinder because I was like, fuck that kid, I'm sad. Because I really liked him. Anyway, so I got back on Tinder, and I had demi in my bio because I was like – Well first I had demigoddess in it, and so people would ask about it and I'd explain, and nothing ever bad happened. I was waiting for someone to say something rude and I was going to take a picture and post it the Twitter and it was going to be great. That never happened, god damn it.
SARAH: Wow, must suck to have people only validate you on Tinder.
KAYLA: Respect me, I know. Some people would be like oh, that's really cool. And I was like oh, okay I guess, it just how it be. When I met my current boyfriend, he never even brought up – I knew he knew because it was in my bio, but he never brought it up until it was later in our relationship and things started to happen. And I was like no, I'm uncomfortable. And I vomited because I had anxiety and he was like, it okay. He was also very chill with it and everything. But, yeah, for a long time I was really uncomfortable with the title, for some reason.
SARAH: Yeah, you were really hesitant to take the identifier.
KAYLA: Yeah, because I was also – I think for a lot of demi people, being demi plays a bigger part in their life. Because for me, it’s when you form a deep bond then you're sexually attracted and for me it doesn't take very long to form that deep bond. And so it doesn't really affect me very much and it hasn't, because I've never had someone be like, we're breaking up because you won't have sex with me right away.
So it's never really been that hard on me and so it's not a huge part of my identity, really. It's not something I often think about. When I was single I'd think about it more, because it affected my dating life, but now that I'm in a relationship and it's whatever, it's not something that affects me at all. It's not a big part of my identity like I think it is for a lot of other demi people.
So I felt, I don't want to insert myself into this community as someone that already knows they're straight and just say I'm this, when it's not that big of a deal to me.
SARAH: Yeah, that makes sense, and I remember when you were struggling with taking on the term demi, and for me having the terms helped me, but I knew that I couldn't force them on to you. And I think that's a part of the whole questioning journey too. It's that it's like, there's the point when you realize what you are, and then there's the point where you're ready to use the title.
KAYLA: Yeah, and some people never want to use the title, and that's totally fine.
SARAH: And some people it happens at the same time, but that's not true for everyone. I a lot more readily took on the title ace, but aro I was confused about for much longer, even though I knew I was somewhere on that spectrum.
I thought I was maybe grayromantic at some point. There's one called quai, quee –
SARAH: (cutting in) It's Sarah from the future again, it's quiromantic, Q-U-I romantic, yay.
SARAH: (continued) Also called wtfromantic –
KAYLA: (laughs)
SARAH: Which basically means you can't tell if you're feeling platonic or romantic attraction, and I felt that way for a long time because honestly, it was just this one person confusing me to the point where it's like I couldn't –
KAYLA: I feel so left out.
SARAH: Sorry.
KAYLA: You’re not.
SARAH: If it makes you feel better, no one knows. It's not like I’m just not telling you.
KAYLA: That does not make me feel better, I'm supposed to know everything.
SARAH: No, that was never a part of the deal.
KAYLA: I'm sorry, when we became married and best friends, that is what was in the contract.
SARAH: Listen, just because you tell me everything –
KAYLA: I do not tell you everything.
SARAH: Then you can't be mad.
KAYLA: What do you want to know? Let's trade secrets.
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: Let’s make friendship bracelets and trade secrets.
SARAH: But basically, it was that one person holding me back from taking on –
KAYLA: Do I know the person?
SARAH: I'm not telling you anything, Kayla.
KAYLA: I want to quit the podcast.
SARAH: It was this one person holding me back from taking on that identifier, because I wasn't sure and then at one point I was just like, you know what? We're going to try it on
KAYLA: We’re doing it live.
SARAH: And it was fine. And also another person, it's also just difficult because sexuality is fluid and so for some people, they know from a very young age what their sexuality is, and it stays that way for the rest of their life. That's not true for everyone, and so the knowledge that sexuality is fluid, and also being ace, there's always just that underlying feeling that's like, not queer enough. And one of my greatest fears, and I think one of the things that really held me back from using any of the – Like, when I for a hot second in high school thought I was demi, and then I was like, no, no way, I think part of it was because I was afraid of thinking I was ace, and openly calling myself ace, and then realizing I was straight. That was my worst fear because I didn't want to fake it. I didn't want to be someone –
KAYLA: I think a lot of people have that fear.
SARAH: And so the whole confusion about, do I have a crush on this person or do I just really want to be their friend?
KAYLA: Are you their friend now?
SARAH: (pause) Yeah.
KAYLA: That’s good.
SARAH: But that's also happened since I – It’s happened in the intervening times since I took on those identifiers, and so then it's like this question of, am I still aro-ace, or am I just confused, or am I not?
KAYLA: Well, I think it's hard too for people that maybe have had relationships before, or had sex before and then they're like, well, I can't identify as ace because I've had sex. And a lot of people say that too, so then you have other people telling you that, and then you're like, well, I'm not a real ace person. I think other people, like gay people and lesbians especially have that too, I've dated a guy before so I can't call myself a real lesbian, I'm not a pure lesbian.
SARAH: Or people who are bi or pan, there's this horrible mindset where it's like, if you are in a heterosexual relationship, you're not bi or you're not pan or you're not bi enough.
KAYLA: Yeah. I know several bi people that are like, yeah, I've only had relationships with guys. The most I've done with a girl is kiss a girl. And so it's weird being bi, because they're like, I've never had the opportunity to act on this other part of my sexuality.
SARAH: Exactly, and so it's difficult because on one hand, I think for a lot of people that first part of questioning is the hardest part, figuring it out and accepting it, and that sort of thing. And it does get better once you figure that out, but on the other hand, depending on who you are, it may not ever end. That whole feeling of questioning, I might question shit for the rest of my life, and I'm pretty confident in my identifiers but that doesn't mean that I won't get confused again.
KAYLA: It doesn't mean you'll also never date anyone or never whatever, because it is fluid and you never know if it’ll happen.
SARAH: Exactly. And so it's like, yes, I have this podcast but that doesn't mean that I'm not questioning shit even still, even currently in my life. So it's like, that sounds almost pessimistic to anyone who's listening who might still be in that original questioning phase, because –
KAYLA: It really depends on the person, I think.
SARAH: Yeah, because it can feel like you're never going to leave that phase, and how you get out of that phase is different for everyone. So I was able to get out of that phase by finally just being like, fuck it, I'm going to use this identifier, try it on, see how it feels. And then I was like oh, I like this. And that's how I got out.
(40:00)
KAYLA: Yeah, and for me I was like, a lot of times resistant to it, and then I got some hard proof that I was definitely demi. There were several times where I was like, there was no way I would react like this or feel like this if I wasn't demi, this is just some hard and fast proof, and stuff like thinking about other parts of my life, I never had a crush until 6th grade. I never had a crush on any celebrity or TV people. Thinking about that, I’m like that matches up, that makes sense to me.
SARAH: And also just for me a really interesting part of growing up, not knowing I was ace, because growing up I was a big fan of One Direction and I was a big fan of 5 Seconds of Summer and when you think of people who are fans of that group, a lot of times the assumption is made that people are fans of that group because they think the guys are hot, and that is why.
KAYLA: They're also not attractive. They're fine now, but at the start of One Direction –
SARAH: That's your opinion.
KAYLA: It's my opinion. I did not think they were cute.
SARAH: But I remember at one point, my sister said something about how I only liked One Direction because I thought they were cute, and I remember being really angry at that for a lot of reasons.
KAYLA: First of all, not true.
SARAH: First of all, that's not true and that's really – It's very reductionist thinking to think that the only fans of this band are teenage girls, and they're only fans because they think they're cute, and that's the end of the story, because that's very much not true. But at the time, I didn't understand that I was ace, but looking back on it, it's like I am hardcore proof that that's not true. Because, yes, did I find them aesthetically attractive? Yeah. Did that mean that I was liking their band because I wanted to date them, because I wanted to stare at them shirtless? No, that wasn't it at all. So that's a fun thing. But I know there was some things we wanted to talk about with questioning. It's hard for us to be the tellers of truth.
KAYLA: Because it's really different for everyone.
SARAH: Yeah, it really is. But if you could think of any advice for anyone who's in that questioning phase, what would it be? Because also we've both had that phase very late in life
KAYLA: Oh yeah.
SARAH: A lot of people who are on the spectrum have that much younger.
KAYLA: Something that I still struggle with is – I've told Sarah this and we've talked about this a bit. I don't consider myself as part of the ace community and you always tell me, no you are, it's fine. But I still feel like an outcast, being someone that's looking in on a group that's a minority, as someone that I feel like I am in – I've talked about this on the podcast before, I don't feel like I fit in with "normal" people that are hooking up, but I also don't feel like I'm included in the ace community.
So I think that's still something that I struggle with but I think that really held me back in the beginning, because I was like, I don't even think I even belong in the demi community, maybe because I've had sex, because it's not a huge deal in my life. And because it's not – I wasn't thinking about it often, it's not like it was plaguing me, especially in the times when I was in a relationship. It really didn't matter to me. It was just something that I was like, this might be a thing, whatever. So I think my advice would just to be to realize that that's not something that's important.
SARAH: I think it's also so important to know that even if you take on this identifier, you don't have to situate yourself in that community if you don't want to. If you're not comfortable putting yourself into that community, no one's going to force you in. The reason I was telling Kayla that she could be a part of that community – I hope it didn't come off as me trying to tell you to be in it, because that's not really what I meant.
KAYLA: No, no.
SARAH: I was just trying to convey to her that, you are welcome in this community and whether or not you want to put yourself in it is your call, but you are welcome in it. And so I think that's important for those of you out there to know whether you're ace or anything else –
KAYLA: You have the option.
SARAH: You have the option, but you also have the option to take a step back and not dive in head first, at first, or at all.
KAYLA: Yeah, it's not like you have to only have friends – Because I feel like a lot of people that are gay I feel, at least stereotypically, have all gay friends, or they're very much in gay culture. And it's like, you don't have to be part of the culture, you don't have to go with the stereotypes or like the community. It's just not something you have to do if you don't want to.
SARAH: Yeah. I know we have this podcast but I'm not really an active participant in the ace community, apart from this.
KAYLA: I don't even know if this podcast puts us in the ace community. It's not like a lot of people talk about it.
SARAH: Yeah. I feel –
KAYLA: It's not like a big deal or anything.
SARAH: But also with Pride, right? So I've never been to a Pride, a lot of that is for logistical reasons, because by the time I was actually openly out, it was when I was in Germany, and just because of timing, I missed the Pride when I was in Germany and I missed the Pride at home. So I was just in the wrong place at the wrong time, but it was actually really interesting because the Pride in Germany, it was the day after I left which I was really upset about, but there was actually – So I had a friend in Germany who knew I was ace, well I had a couple, but a German friend who knew I ace. And they are also on the LGBTQ+ spectrum and they were saying that there was actually supposed to be a specific thing at that Pride for the ace community, and I was like, dude, that's so dope. And if I had been able to, I would have gone with them, also because I knew I had someone to go with.
KAYLA: I would not go alone. I would have been terrified.
SARAH: So I'm a little scared of going to Pride because I don't know that I feel like I fit in enough with that community, because I know a lot of things at Pride are very like, be free to be who you are. But that often makes things very sexual, and that can be uncomfortable.
KAYLA: Also I've heard a lot complaints recently that Pride is very commercialized now which is very unrelated but just kind of sad.
SARAH: But even there are some people who I know who are gay or lesbian, who don't really feel comfortable at Pride because it's too sexual for them too. It's difficult but –
KAYLA: It's not super ace friendly.
SARAH: Yeah, not the most ace friendly.
KAYLA: We talked about this before that usually it's like, when you tell a woman, be free to do whatever with your sexuality, typically you're telling her to be more promiscuous, but when you say it like, I don't want to, then it's like oh, you're trying to stay with norms, and you're being repressed. And it’s like nah, I just don’t wanna.
SARAH: Yeah. Just a little portion got sidetracked. What I was getting to somehow, was my advice for people is that it –
KAYLA: It is raining.
SARAH: It is raining. It just started raining a lot. I sort of already said it but like, this whole questioning thing, it may feel like it – Wow, it really started raining.
KAYLA: Hold on, I got to close the window real first.
SARAH: No, it's hot in here, don't do it.
KAYLA: But it's wet. Sarah, my things.
SARAH: Rain doesn't get into my room. Kayla's not even listening, she’s reading a text from her boyfriend.
KAYLA: Oh, lightning.
SARAH: Sorry, this matters to none of you, this is already a long episode.
KAYLA: You're welcome.
SARAH: But I would just say, questioning, it doesn't necessarily have a beginning, middle and an end. That might be not a good thing to hear for some of you, because it can be nice to know that, but if you're struggling with the process, and if you have to use some identifiers as stepping stones to get to other like I did, that's fine.
KAYLA: But I also think it's not the worst thing to hear because it also means those people that you see that you think have it all figured out, a lot of them don't either.
SARAH: Yeah, no one has it all figured out, let's be real. I can pretty confidently say I'm aro-ace but that doesn't mean I never questioned anything, because I do, trust me.
KAYLA: Yeah. Wow, what aesthetically pleasing background noise.
SARAH: Yeah, I don't know how much you can hear but it's really screaming and it's –
KAYLA: I'd also say just related to that, don't rush for it to be over, because I feel like a lot of people might feel like oh, I've spent this long questioning and that's too long. So they try to speed it up and maybe take on the title they're not comfortable with, or regress into no title or regress into just thinking they're straight or something, and it's like, don't – Bitch, no.
SARAH: Take it at whatever pace you need to. For me that was a lot of sitting and thinking about it myself before I told – Not that I told anyone, but before anyone knew. For some people, they want to talk to someone right way. Do what is right for you, and don't feel like you have to go through the process in the same way that others around you or others on the internet have. I guess that brings us to – Sorry, this is a long episode, but it's important, I had to tell you my whole life story. But the other thing we wanted to touch on was, if you have a friend who is experiencing this, how can you help them?
(50:00)
Are you answering? Am I answering?
KAYLA: I don't know.
SARAH: Alright, I was just going to say along the lines of what we just said. You have to remember that not everyone has the same experience, especially if you are a person on the LGBTQA+ spectrum, you have to recognize that they're not going to experience it the same way you're doing it.
KAYLA: Even if they end up coming to the same conclusions you did, the same identity or within the same niche. Because Sarah really helped me through my questioning, but she was never pushing me to be like, well, here's what I did and this is what you should do, and this is when I took on my titles and this was my timeline. I never - That was never happening.
SARAH: I feel like based off of what you had told me, and the things you had been like, well, maybe I'm demi, I had decided you were demi before you ever did, but it wasn't my place to tell you.
KAYLA: You weren't going to tell me that, and if I decided I wasn't, you weren't going to be like, bitch, yes you are.
SARAH: You’re wrong.
KAYLA: That's not for you to decide.
SARAH: Right. So I think it's important, even if you think your friend might not be straight –
KAYLA: There is water getting in.
SARAH: Do you want to shut the window?
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Okay, go shut the window. Even if you have an inkling that a friend of yours isn't straight and that – There's a poster, yeah. Sorry, talking to Kayla.
KAYLA: Dripping.
SARAH: I’m sorry, mine doesn't do that. Even if you have that inkling, you need to let your friend figure it out themselves, and if that means reaching out to you and them bringing you into it, and if you think that you know them well enough, and you think that you do need to bring it up, do so carefully.
KAYLA: Yeah. And in a safe environment.
SARAH: Right, and if they react badly or if they're like, no, then take a step back. It's really important to just let that person go about it in the way that they feel they need to. Also, if their identifiers change, you’ve got to roll with it.
KAYLA: Yeah, don't tell them like, I don’t believe you, you keep changing. Believe what they say. They're not trying to trick you or just do anything else, they're just trying to figure it out and you need to support them in that.
SARAH: Exactly. You’ve just got to be there, man. That's just general good life advice.
KAYLA: Yeah, it's just like maybe how to be a good friend, I don't know.
SARAH: Yeah, and it's going to be different for everyone, but hopefully, eventually they will figure it out and you will figure it out. And even if that figuring it out means – Then that's what that means. So goes it. I think that was all I wanted to talk about.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Okay, what’s our poll?
KAYLA: Oh boy, poll. Why is my phone case broken? Are you done questioning? Or do you think there is ever an end to questioning? Yay or nay?
SARAH: Actually I have a better one that's somewhere in between those two.
KAYLA: Interesting.
SARAH: Do you feel like you are confident in what your sexuality is?
KAYLA: 100% sure.
SARAH: Yes, no, maybe.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Yeah?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Okay, we're cool. So that's our pod. Our pod? Our poll. So again, do you feel like you're comfortable with what your sexuality is?
KAYLA: Not comfortable.
SARAH: Not comfortable, but you know what it is.
KAYLA: You’re confident in what you are.
SARAH: One, yes, two, no, three, maybe/I don't know. Yeah, you can find that poll on our Twitter @soundsfakepod. You can also find us on Tumblr, soundsfakepod.tumblr.com. And hey, that's a great way for the first person in your life to figure out that you're ace.
KAYLA: How do you feel that I'm the first person that knew?
SARAH: Seems about right.
KAYLA: When I messaged you that, were you like, fuck.
SARAH: No, I was just like, thank God I don't have to actually tell her.
KAYLA: Would you have?
SARAH: I don't know.
KAYLA: Oh no.
SARAH: I'm not good at telling people stuff face-to-face, that's not –
KAYLA: You really aren’t.
SARAH: I'm really, really bad at it, and so if I'm not forced into it, I probably won't do it. So everyone who has found out has either found out from seeing something on the internet, or because you basically told them for me/the musical, [it] became kind of obvious.
KAYLA: Or we'd be talking about something and people would just hear a conversation, or be part of the conversation where it came up.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: What are you going to do when I’m not there to out you, Sarah?
SARAH: I'm trying to remember how people in Germany found out, because I think there were only two –
KAYLA: Well that was not me.
SARAH: I think there were only two people in Germany who really knew. One of whom I know – neither of them were straight themselves, one of whom I'm pretty sure they asked me, and then the other one, we were talking about non-straightness and I don't know if I came out and said it. I don't think she asked me, but she was able to figure it out and I think at a later date, she might have asked for more specific –
KAYLA: You've also done that, I can think of a time where you did that recently where you were talking to someone and you just made a joke about it, and that's how you outed yourself to that person.
SARAH: Yeah, wow, how did we get – Oh, Tumblr. Okay, you can also email us on soundsfakepod@gmail.com. We’d love to hear if you have stories about your own questioning experience.
KAYLA: Or other advice for people, knowing that people might not take your advice or it might not be the best advice for other people, but just what you maybe would have liked to hear at the time.
SARAH: Yeah, if there's anything you would have liked the hear when you were questioning, if there's anything you want to hear now, email us, message us on Twitter, message us on Tumblr.
KAYLA: The DMs are open.
SARAH: That's true, slide in man.
KAYLA: Slip and slide into our DMs.
SARAH: We'll be happy to share that, or not share that if you don't want us to, in the next episode.
KAYLA: Or just talk to y'all.
SARAH: If you have stories that you'd like to share with us or if you have advice or if you have questions, feel free to ask them.
KAYLA: Yeah. We by no means experts, but we're here.
SARAH: Yeah, we're here. We know stuff.
KAYLA: We're your friends.
SARAH: Yeah. Kayla, where can they listen to the pod?
KAYLA: Anywhere you can find your favorite podcast.
SARAH: Your font?
KAYLA: Your font.
SARAH: I love fonts.
KAYLA: All right, we know, except for Spotify because rude, iTunes, SoundCloud, Stitcher Radio, anywhere else you find the podcast.
SARAH: Woohoo, we actually have a Patreon, you can find us there, patreon.com/soundsfakepod. We have some patrons. We have so many these days, it's so wonderful, they're just so great. So our $2 patron, we have Sara Jones, hi Sara. For our $5 patrons we have Jennifer Smart, you can find her on YouTube by looking up Lehen Productions. Then we have Asritha Vinnakota, you can find her on Instagram @asritha_v. Then we Austin Le, he’d like to promote the Twitch channel twitch.tv/k4iley. And there's Drew Finney, you can find him on Twitter @midwest_drew.
Then for our $10 patrons, Emma Fink, you can find her on YouTube by looking up Emma T Fink. And then we have Tristan Call who would like to spotlight their friend Harley, who is an awesome agendered aro-ace person and you can find them @rationallyparanoid across most social media but mostly DeviantArt and Tumblr. Thanks for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows.
