Hey what's up hello! Today we're chatting with Michael Klein, the first ever (out) ace racecar driver!!
Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/aces-in-racing-feat-michael-klein
Follow Michael: @michaelklein10a / @michaelkleinracing
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Follow: @soundsfakepod
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Hey what's up hello! Today we're chatting with Michael Klein, the first ever (out) ace racecar driver!!
Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/aces-in-racing-feat-michael-klein
Follow Michael: @michaelklein10a / @michaelkleinracing
Support Michael Klein Racing: https://openfender.com/drivers/michael-klein
Donate: patreon.com/soundsfakepod
Follow: @soundsfakepod
Join: https://discord.gg/W7VBHMt
Buy our book: www.soundsfakepod.com/book
(00:00)
SARAH: Hey, what's up? Hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl. I'm Sarah, that's me.
KAYLA: And a bi-demi-sexual girl, that's me, Kayla.
MICHAEL: And I am Michael Klein. I am a demi-ace driver in the ARCA Menards series and in several other divisions of racing.
SARAH: Wooh. Where we talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.
KAYLA: On today's episode, racing.
SARAH, KAYLA, AND MICHAEL: Sounds Fake But Okay.
(theme music plays)
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod.
KAYLA: Hello, everyone, and hello to our very special guest, Michael, who we've been trying to have on for maybe years now.
SARAH: Centuries.
KAYLA: Centuries even, and it's finally time.
SARAH: It is happening.
MICHAEL: Yeah, I'm glad to be on here. I know it's been a while in the works, but I'm very glad David Jay introduced me to you guys, and it's awesome to finally be on here and telling my story.
KAYLA: Yeah, subtle flex that we all know David Jay, so everyone be really jealous of us. It's whatever. But yeah, we're very excited. This is like… We've had a lot of guests on from a lot of different walks of life, and I feel like racing is the area I know least about out of everyone we've had on, so I'm very excited to learn more.
SARAH: Yeah
MICHAEL: Yeah, no problem. I've got quite a bit of knowledge about it.
KAYLA: I would hope so. It would be a little concerning if you didn't.
MICHAEL: Yeah. There are people like that, unfortunately.
KAYLA: Damn.
SARAH: Oh boy. Alright.
KAYLA: Call them out.
SARAH: You heard it here first, kids. Do we want to just dive in? Do we have any housekeeping Literati event June 30th? That's all.
KAYLA: Yeah, come see us. Find it on the internet.
SARAH: Great
KAYLA: Yeah, I know you already did like a short little intro to everyone, but do you want to kind of give like your formal like your little pitch of who you are?
MICHAEL: Yeah, so basically I'm a race car driver across several divisions. Namely, we're looking at doing the ARCA Menards series this year, which is the first division of NASCAR, and you know, we've been hard at work trying to make that happen, but when I'm not doing that, I'm just kind of racing in several other divisions. So some of the series I race in are sprint cars, midgets, late models. So there's quite a few different divisions that we run here, and just the fact that I have the opportunity to come out here and be probably the first openly ace driver is truly special. And if I can do anything to help the community through that, I'm more than happy to do so.
SARAH: Hell yeah.
KAYLA: I love it. The aces are infiltrating everywhere.
MICHAEL: Yes
KAYLA: We're taking over every sport and every career.
SARAH: Everything.
KAYLA: And everything.
MICHAEL: We're coming.
KAYLA: We're coming. No, wait.
SARAH: Well, some.
KAYLA: Well, some.
(laughter)
KAYLA: Wait a second.
SARAH: Why don't we start with your aceness, and then we can dive into how it intersects with the racing and the things you do. How did you realize you were ace and you said demi as well, right?
MICHAEL: Yeah, I consider myself demi-romantic asexual. So basically I came to find that out just because in high school I really didn't develop any crushes on anybody. I was never in a relationship and still have never been in a relationship. And I never really knew there was a word for that. So, you know, I just kind of rolled with it and kind of played it down low. And then I think it was like my first year in college. I watched a video where this one YouTuber named Thomas Sanders brought together several different people of different orientations. And one of them was ace. And, you know, she kind of explained what that meant. And I kind of came to think, okay, I kind of identify with this. And, you know, from that day on, you know, I've kind of been identifying as such. You know, it has kind of fluid, I would say. You know, it does seem to fluctuate quite a bit. But that is generally the end of the spectrum that I think I'd lay on. And that's kind of why I started to kind of consider myself more on the demi spectrum too, just because it's like I'm open to being in a relationship, but I really don't feel any need to. So it's just kind of, you know, I just kind of roll with it. You know, I roll with whatever life throws at me and, you know, I don't really think I need to be in a relationship. I'm very happy just, you know, being on my own. You know, I think if you can find happiness with just being yourself
(05:00)
MICHAEL: you know, just do things yourself, then your life is going to be so much better because I really don't think you can really learn to love someone else until you learn to love yourself.
KAYLA: (laughing) As RuPaul always says.
SARAH: (laughing) So you're rolling with it. You're also rolling
KAYLA: Rolling
SARAH: in the cars.
KAYLA: In the cars.
SARAH: I'm so sorry. I'll see myself out.
KAYLA: That's like I feel like the perfect philosophy, though, because I feel like you see so many allo people, especially who seem like they like they have to have a relationship to find that happiness. And it's like a huge life goal of theirs, which isn't necessarily wrong. But like placing that much of like your self-worth and need on another person or relationship is just like very risky and like exhausting. So being able to be like, yeah, I'm open to it, but I'm also like chill without it. I'll just be here. Like, that's great.
MICHAEL: Yeah. You know, I found it to be kind of liberating because it's like I don't have to restrict myself to, you know, what I identify as. It's like I can just kind of roll with what life throws at me. And, you know, if something happens where I do find somebody who I want to be with, I'm more than happy to be with them, but it's not something that I put so much emphasis on, like, this is how I will be happy. Like, this is the only way you can find happiness. I found that through my career and my family and just myself. You know, it is hard sometimes because, you know, I do struggle with some mental health issues like anxiety and depression.
KAYLA: (laughing) Hell yeah. Me too.
MICHAEL: But it's just kind of, I don't find being in a relationship is really going to be the one, the one solve all to this problem. And so it's just learning to be happy with yourself is probably the first step towards finding any kind of happiness, if you ask me.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I think so many people like think that being in a relationship will fix their mental health problems. And it's like, no, you're just bringing your mental health problems into the relationship and it's just going to impact the relationship.
MICHAEL: Right
SARAH: That doesn't have to be an inherently bad thing. But if you're like, oh, this relationship is going to fix me, I have some things to say.
KAYLA: As Adam Sandler once said, “if you have relationship problems at home, you're going to have them on vacation in Italy.”
SARAH: You're really hitting us with the quotes here today.
KAYLA: If you haven't seen the SNL sketch of Adam Sandler being like a tour guide commercial guy, he's like, you all come to Italy and think that it'll fix you, but if you're depressed at home, you're going to be depressed on a hike through the mountains. It's very funny. And I think it's relevant here.
SARAH: Alright, sure
KAYLA: Anyway
MICHAEL: it sounds like it.
KAYLA: Yeah. If you're going to, you know, whatever. Would you say that your gender identity influences or like came into play with your sexuality and romantic identity at all? I feel like I've asked so many different aspec people this question and people have such varying answers of like, no, it has nothing to do with it at all or like my gender really interacts with it. So I'm curious what you think.
MICHAEL: I don't think it does. You know, I kind of see gender and sexuality as two different things. So it's just kind of, you know, so I do think that one, you know, can be queer without the other and vice versa. They can both be, but I don't really see it as, you know, mutually exclusive, you know, I've always identified as a male. I have questioned that on several times and still do sometimes, but that is kind of more where I lean. And I've not really found that it has an impact on that whatsoever.
KAYLA: Yeah, makes sense. Like I said, I feel like I've heard such varying answers. I always just find it so interesting how many different opinions and relationships people have in that way within the same community.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Just so fascinating.
SARAH: Very much so.
MICHAEL: It really is. It's incredible how much of a spectrum I found this thing to be. And, you know, when I was in college, you know, unfortunately, I kind of grew up in a more conservative school environment.
KAYLA: (laughing) Me too. Terrible
MICHAEL: So I was kind of shown to be like, nonsense. But it was like, but, you know, as I grew older, I kind of realized this is actually pretty cool. You know, it's just how much of a spectrum it can be and what people, you know, may identify as. You know, I just think that our differences are what make us who we are. And so seeing how different anyone can be, it's truly incredible to see.
KAYLA: Yeah. And like you said, it's just so much more freeing that way.
MICHAEL: Yeah.
SARAH: Alright. Let's do a pivot that's not really a pivot, but let's talk about racing. How did you get into racing? How were you like, this is what I want to do for my career?
MICHAEL: So it's kind of been something I've just always wanted to do.
(10:00)
MICHAEL: I can't really go back and pinpoint, you know, this was the moment where I want to do this. It's just kind of always been like, I've wanted to do this my whole life. I think I grew up watching the races at home. And I think that's kind of where I started to fall in love with the sport. And, you know, it's not like a lot of other guys who kind of have their parents or, you know, someone else who got them into it. You know, I kind of did it all on my own. And so, I mean, obviously, my parents had the races on. So they were kind of like…
SARAH: they weren't, they weren't anti racing to begin with.
MICHAEL: No. Yeah. So but yeah, it was just kind of something I just always wanted to do. There's no exact moment where I can think of where I decided this is what I want to do with my life.
SARAH: Sometimes it just is that way.
KAYLA: What is the racing community like? I feel like from the outside, as someone who grew up having family members that watched a lot of racing, I feel like I always had a very stereotypical view of what like a racing fan is, what a driver is like. So I'm curious what the actuality is of what the racing community looks like, how it works, like how people interact, that kind of thing.
MICHAEL: You know, I understand that stereotypical view of it, and it is still true to an extent, but it's definitely starting to shift. You know, I see a lot more race fans who, you know, are willing to be more out about who they are to support the community. And a lot of drivers and people in the garage are, too. So the attitude is definitely shifting. There's definitely still work to be done, but it's going in the right direction.
SARAH: In terms of you kind of being out as an aspec person, is that something that, you know, as soon as you realized you were like, yeah, I want to be open about this? Or was that something where you were like you had to, you know, you made an active decision to be out, in your career and in the world? Is that something that you thought about? Or was it just like, no, this is who I am, so I'm going to talk about it.
MICHAEL: So for a while I was kind of closeted about it. You know, it probably was about five years between me realizing who I was and then as an ace person and then when I actually came out. And I would say for a while that was because I didn't think there was a spot for me in the sport as a queer person. But as the sport started to move in this right direction and a few drivers came out, and I kind of began to think maybe there is a spot for me. And obviously last year is when we started to see all these bills being passed, laws being proposed that targeted the community. And I began to realize, you know, if I want to make a difference, then I need to tell people who I am. And also I don't want to hide who – have to hide who I am anymore. And so I kind of made that decision that I want to tell people who I am so I can be in the sport as authentically myself as I can.
SARAH: Mhm
MICHAEL: And so I came out in June last year. And for the most part, reaction’s been pretty good. There have been some instances where I've received threats, you know, I've had to cut a few ties because of this. But at the same time, it's like those are kind of people who I don't really think I want to work with if they weren't willing to accept me. And at the end of the day, I found it to be mostly a positive, just because it's like if I can be in the sport and make a difference for other people who may be struggling, then I'm more than happy to do it.
SARAH: Yeah, good for you.
KAYLA: Yeah. I'm very glad that it has been mostly positive. Obviously, I'm very sorry that people have been, some people have been so, so terrible. But, you know, I think you're right, especially as you see the sport moving and other people coming out like that is a great way to kind of make your stand and kind of like help the community of racing and the queer community move forward. I think that's very cool.
MICHAEL: Thank you.
SARAH: I think it's also a testament to the people who came out in the racing community before you to like really remind people that like come like people coming out and being open about their identities in these communities in any communities, it really is so important because visibility is so important to other people. And like, you know, you, you realize you are aspec because you saw an aspec person in the video and you know, perhaps, you know, people coming out in the community made you more confident to come out yourself, and I think
(15:00)
SARAH: it seems so obvious like, oh, of course visibility matters but like, it really does. It really does have like a, it makes a difference that kind of like snowballs and has a really positive effect in the long run.
MICHAEL: Absolutely, and I'm thankful that I can be a part of that within the sport. And, you know, I'm hoping that it kind of opens the door for other people who may feel like there's, they want to come out and be themselves but there may not be a spot for them. I just hope this kind of goes to show that there is there really is a spot for you in the sport, no matter who you are.
KAYLA: Yeah, I think it, the visibility is especially so important in sports in general because they're so often portrayed as like so masculine and so like heteronormative like people are always like oh sports fans of any sport are like just these like bros and it's just all these like hyper-masculine men.
SARAH: And then with, and then with racing you throw in cars, which is another like, oh, masculine like
KAYLA: yes, men in their car. Yeah. And I think, like that's not somewhere he would typically go to look for representation, it's probably somewhere you would go to be if someone was like, I don't want to see any gays today I'll go watch my sports, I feel like I can imagine some terrible people saying that. But that just gives more of an opportunity for people to see queer people everywhere and in places they wouldn't expect so it's like you watching that YouTube video you know you didn't go there searching for something that day and you just happen to see it and I think that's what visibility does
MICHAEL: Yeah
KAYLA: is it's like some little kids can be watching racing and be like, wait, what's that and then look it up and be like, wait a second. I think that's neat.
MICHAEL: Yeah, I would love it if that happened, you know, I'd love it if I could be part of somebody, maybe helping them discover who they are.
KAYLA: Yeah, absolutely.
MICHAEL: And it's funny you mentioned that because that kind of happened once, you know, somebody responded to a conversation that a couple of my friends were having, and they said, this is the direction NASCAR is going in.
KAYLA: Yes it is
MICHAEL: It kind of is derogatory, and it showed someone wearing a pride flag, you know, in a pride parade. And so I just had to respond, yeah, and don't you forget it.
SARAH: Yeah, exactly. That’s where everything is going so let's let's keep on keep on moving and hey maybe you being on this podcast, we'll get some of our a spec audience into racing, KAYLA: True
SARAH: and it's just a convergence convergence of all these things.
MICHAEL: Maybe. That would be great.
KAYLA: And we're just gonna have a strong ace army of Michael fans.
MICHAEL: Yes
KAYLA: That would just be so cool for there to be a race then just all these like ace flags in like the crown. So, that would be sick.
MICHAEL: Oh, that would be awesome. I would love to see that.
KAYLA: That'd be very good.
SARAH: Let’s make it happen.
KAYLA: Yes.
MICHAEL: Yes.
KAYLA: Kind of just question. I just have questions about racing in general, aside from like the identity and all of that.
MICHAEL: Totally
KAYLA: Can you explain how like the divisions of racing work so obviously you've mentioned like all these different types of racing you did and that it's like the division of NASCAR? Can you explain like how that works and like, especially as like a career and like moving upwards and stuff.
MICHAEL: So basically what you have is you have your hometown divisions, which is kind of like along the lines of late models sprint cars, midgets, you know those are the kind of divisions that just run at your local Saturday night short track which you could probably find if you look those up. And then, if you're trying to get into NASCAR, then that would basically be you start out in the ARCA Menards series, which is basically the first feeder division of NASCAR, and then I'm supposed to say if you're good there but really it's like if you have the money to move up. You go into the craftsman truck series, which is considered the first of the three national touring divisions. So once you get there you're usually pretty well set. And then after that you usually move on to the NASCAR Xfinity series, kind of like the AAA minor league division of NASCAR. And if you can show your worth there, or have the money to move up, you go to the cup series, which most people will know as the top division. So, you generally have to go through probably seven or eight divisions, you usually start out in go karts, that's kind of where I started. And so it's just, and a lot of it comes down to money when it comes to moving up, you know that's just the unfortunate reality of it. You know, if you have enough talent, then maybe it's easier to get that money, but a lot of it just comes from family wealth. So, it's harder to do if you don't have that but it is possible.
KAYLA: That makes sense. It reminds me, I don't know like how annoying it is to have like a NASCAR and F1 comparison but I recently started watching the F1 Netflix documentary and I was just shocked by how much of it was money.
MICHAEL: Yeah
KAYLA: They were like, yeah this kid's dad owns the company so I guess he'll be our racer and I was like, but he's not good.
(20:00)
MICHAEL: It's, it's even more like that in Formula One.
KAYLA: Yeah
MICHAEL: like in Formula One if you don't have the money you're not going anywhere.
KAYLA: Yeah
MICHAEL: it costs like hundreds of millions of dollars to run per year so it's always going to be a driver who has to bring funding to the table for that.
SARAH: Yeah. And that also
KAYLA: That’s really annoying.
SARAH: I mean that, that to bring it back to asexuality. Watch me. Watch me.
KAYLA: Please do. Watch her. Oh she's going. She's cooking.
SARAH: I mean, that precludes diversity, it means that you know it's always the same people it's always the same types of people. And, you know, that could make the sport, you know, majority white but it also can make the sport majority cishet, because those are the types of people that are, you know, gaining generational wealth gaining wealth to do this and then also feeling comfortable being whoever they are in this situation. And so, you know, the, the greater the barrier to entry, the less likely it is to be an actual diverse sport and so it's good to see people like you, who are like, hey, actually there is a place for those of us who, you know, aren't the son of whoever owns the company and are fucking queer, like, you know.
MICHAEL: Yeah, and you know I think that's kind of why I respect some of these guys like Lewis Hamilton so much is because, you know, he, he doesn't come from wealth, you know he his dad had to scrape by just to get him in carts and you know he managed to impress people with his talent, which got him picked up by McLaren. And obviously that kind of created the pathway to him to Formula One. And so, you know, that's kind of why I have so much respect for Lewis is just because, you know, not only was he, you know, a Black male who managed to make his way to the sport, you know, despite what disadvantages he had financially and make it there and not only make it there, become probably the greatest of all time. You know
KAYLA: Yeah
MICHAEL: he showed that there is a spot for anybody in the sport.
KAYLA: Yeah, it's a lot easier to root for someone like that.
MICHAEL: Yeah. Yeah, and if there's somebody there who has a talent, you know, it doesn't matter it may be harder but, you know, there is a spot for you in the sport, you know, it doesn't have to be this cis het white male.
SARAH: Yeah
MICHAEL: It doesn't have to be exclusively that, you know, anybody can do it.
SARAH: Yeah. I know you said that it feels like it's definitely moving in the right direction in terms of being more inclusive, but does it does racing still feel like a boys club?
MICHAEL: A little bit less so lately. There has been quite a bit more females getting in the sport. You have drivers like Hailie Deegan, Rita Goulet, who's also a queer driver, so…
SARAH: Yes!
KAYLA: Hell yes
MICHAEL: really good friend of mine. Yeah. Yeah, you have her. There's a lot more who are coming up through the ranks right now, like drivers like Isabella Robusto, Kaylee Bryson, Toni Breidinger, Taylor Reimer, there's a lot of great ones who are coming up to the sport and I think they're going to change the face of the sport for years to come.
SARAH: Nice.
KAYLA: That's very good to hear because I just remember like, like I said like growing up my grandpa used to have NASCAR on like every day, it would just be like him and his sitting his separate sitting room he had, I guess. Just like in his little chair watching NASCAR and I remember as like a little girl looking at it and being like this certainly isn't for me like this is my grandpa's like boy time watching all of these men drive cars. So that's like it's really great to see that within the sport, it's getting more diverse and more inclusive so that hopefully the fan base can also grow and like be more inclusive in that way too.
SARAH: Yeah
MICHAEL: yeah NASCAR has been working on trying to increase the diversity within sport like they have their drive for diversity program, which is basically a division that they created meant to help minority drivers get the opportunities that they may not be able to get otherwise, and that's created several star drivers like Kyle Larson came up through that bubble Wallace came up through that Hailie Deegan came up through that several more than I'm probably not naming off like Daniel Suarez. There's been quite a few who've been able to make a name for themselves and that's where they started. And over the past few years NASCAR has been working with pride organizations to try and increase LGBT visibility within the sport, and that's included like merch promoting their, the queer community within the sport.
KAYLA: I have seen some of that. Was it the, is the YAASCAR shirt real or did someone else make that?
(25:00)
MICHAEL: Yes
KAYLA: Did NASCAR make that?
MICHAEL: Yes. It's real.
KAYLA: God I need it. I would like to buy it.
SARAH: I love that.
MICHAEL: I think it's still available.
SARAH: Oh my god
KAYLA: I will be checking after this.
SARAH: Have you ever felt like disappointed in like the failures of the broader community or have you really just felt a lot of optimism for the way that things are going?
MICHAEL: It's really been optimism, just because I can definitely tell it's moving in the right direction, and it seems to be moving there pretty quick. Because NASCAR has made it clear that they're not going to back down from this, and that's obviously pushed some of those fans who hold, you know, the more traditionalist views regarding this away, and it's brought some of the more progressive ones in, and I think that's going to change the face of the sport for years to come. And, you know, that kind of gives me that optimism. There is definitely still a lot of work to be done. There have been some failures within the sport when it comes to promoting this. So like the All-Star race last year, where they brought a certain politician out who has a history of very homophobic, anti-LGBT, laws being passed, which NASCAR did own up to that. So there was at least that, but, you know, it's just kind of learning to call out where the failure is so that they can continue to improve from that is where I think you need to put the focus on. I think because of that, we're just helping push the sport in the right direction.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: that's really, I'm really glad that they are owning up to it, even as like some of the more conservative fans are getting annoyed with it. I know like I've seen in the news a lot this week about the LA Dodgers pride night
SARAH: (laughing) I was literally just about to bring that up.
KAYLA: Yeah, so for anyone listening who hadn't heard, the LA Dodgers are the baseball team from Los Angeles.
SARAH: Yeah. One of them, yes
KAYLA: And they were – oh sure, they have five I guess.
SARAH: It's the big one. It's the big boy.
KAYLA: It's the big one. I don't fucking know. I'm too, I can't. So they were having like their June, they're planning their June Pride night or whatever and then they uninvited.
SARAH: They were going to honor the
KAYLA: sisters of preserving indulgence?
SARAH: Sisters of indulgence?
MICHAEL: Something like that.
KAYLA: Yeah, who is, they're like a group of queer, trans, drag queen nuns.
SARAH: Sisters of perpetual indulgence.
KAYLA: Indulgence, yeah. So they're like, yeah, queer, trans, drag queen nuns, which is just rad as hell.
SARAH: Yeah
MICHAEL: Yes
KAYLA: Just sick as fuck. So they were going to honor them.
SARAH: They were not only going to have them there, but they were going to honor them for the work they've done in the community. It's San Francisco based, but there is an LA faction.
KAYLA: Yeah. Like decades of work. This is a very historic organization.
SARAH: Yeah. And then there was blowback from Catholic people who are homophobic and were like, no, this is horrible. So they uninvited them. And that’s…
KAYLA: Stinky.
SARAH: Yeah. And if you think about LA, it's supposed to be this progressive whatever, and it almost feels like sometimes the further along you are in the journey of being accepting to queer identities, the more disappointing it is when they fuck up.
KAYLA: 100% Because I feel like of all of the baseball teams, LA is not the first one I would have been like, you know?
SARAH: But apparently the Dodgers have a history of shit like this from what I've heard.
KAYLA: Great.
MICHAEL: Oh really? Wow
KAYLA: Excellent.
SARAH: Yeah. And so like, okay, I saw like one tweet, so don't hold me to anything.
KAYLA: (laughing) Cite your sources.
SARAH: But like, you know, it's extra disappointing.
KAYLA: Me reporting the news.
SARAH: But then for a sport like NASCAR, you know, because they are maybe less far into the journey, like every win is such a huge win. And, you know, that's exciting for the community. And obviously we can't expect every sport in every community to be at the exact same place in the process as, you know, any… softball – full of lesbians.
KAYLA: (laughing)
SARAH: Like, of course, they're going to be further. Of course, they're going to be further in the process.
KAYLA: Kickball, only gay leagues. Never seen a straight person play kickball in my life.
SARAH: I'm sure they have, but.
KAYLA: I haven't seen it. Not in front of me.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: Anyway, yeah, I'm really, it's really good to hear that they are like owning up to that. I think especially when money gets involved and people get afraid of like fans becoming unfans and like corporate sponsorships dropping out
(30:00)
KAYLA: because of taking that stand. It's really cool to see them sticking up to it and being like, you know, I don't care if I lose however many fans because you know you're going to gain them back.
SARAH: And now that now that I've googled what the name of the sisters is for perpetual indulgence was apparently the LGBT center and pride step like they are no longer associated with
KAYLA: Yes I saw that
SARAH: the Dodgers pride night because you got to stand. You got to stand with your sisters.
MICHAEL: Absolutely
KAYLA: So true. What drama. This is the only sports drama. I care about Dean knows Dean is my partner. He's really into sports and he knows that if he wants to like talk to me about football or bat or baseball or basketball he has to bring me some sort of drama about like someone who's cheating on their wife or got arrested or something. And other than that
SARAH: I thought you were gonna say cheating in the sport, but both.
KAYLA: That also happens probably
SARAH: definitely yes.
KAYLA: Maybe
MICHAEL: Oh yeah
KAYLA: people cheat in the – doping
SARAH: Deflate gate.
KAYLA: Do people cheat like in racing? Yes, I know about the deflate gate. I guess that's a silly question of course they cheat everyone cheats don't they.
MICHAEL: Oh yeah. Yeah, it's usually with the cars you know that's why you have pre race and post race tech. So now it's like if you go through tech and they find something illegal they'll disqualify you. So basically you'll be put the last and lose all your points.
SARAH: What sort of things are illegal?
KAYLA: (laughing) Asking for a friend.
SARAH: Yeah.
MICHAEL: So, if they find something like in the motor that maybe that might give it an advantage that is a huge no no that'll obviously you'd be cute. There's also a certain height you have to meet. So if it's too low or too high that'll also be a penalty. You know, if they discover something on the car that they don't like. So like last year, there was a couple drivers who got disqualified because there was a piece of clear tape on the nose, which even that in itself can actually really increase downforce and make the car faster in the turns
KAYLA: Damn
SARAH: Wow
MICHAEL: and give you advantage. So that's something else they'll be caught for. And there is an anti doping rule in NASCAR too. So, any drivers who were caught using any banned substances will obviously be suspended indefinitely and forced to go through the program.
KAYLA: Damn.
SARAH: Clear tape.
KAYLA: That's crazy.
SARAH: Who'd have thunk?
KAYLA: Who knew?
SARAH: Who'd have thunk? That's aerodynamics for you
KAYLA: When I think about like when I did competitive swim and like for the big meets all of the guys would like shave their bodies like clean because it was like any amount of hair is going to drag them back from their milliseconds in their swimming.
SARAH: No fucking No hair on your car. Get that hair off the car.
KAYLA: Hairy car probably would make slow.
SARAH: Yeah.
MICHAEL: They're going so fast that the hair is not going to stick.
KAYLA: That's true.
SARAH: You know, I guess. I mean, but if it's growing out of a car.
KAYLA: : A girl can dream. Anyway.
SARAH: Anyway. Okay. Kayla, do you have any other questions that you want to ask Michael?
KAYLA: Let me look at my little list of questions.
SARAH: Oh, I do. I have one.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Are there any, are there any stereotypes you would like to dispel about, you know, being a queer person in the racing community about the racing community in general? Anything?
MICHAEL: So probably one of the stereotypes I'd like to remove is just the fact that you have to be a very masculine male to make it into sport because that is still kind of prevalent. And so it would be nice to see, okay, there is room for maybe people who are more soft-sided, which I really am. You know, if you can show that this sport is open to everybody, you're just going to get more people there and it's just going to improve the sport as a whole. And so I don't understand why there's so many people within the sport that kind of push that kind of narrative because all it's doing is holding you back.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah, absolutely.
SARAH: Do you have any advice to aspecs or just queer people in general who might be interested in racing other than be born into money?
(laughter)
KAYLA: Always great advice.
MICHAEL: Yeah, I would just say that just know that there is a place for you here. You know, if you need anyone to talk to, I will be here. There are several people who will be here. I'm always willing to listen to other people. You know, I've had a few people within the queer community, you know, tell me about how glad they are to see someone like me in. And every time that happens, it just makes my day. So, you know, if there's anybody out there who's struggling in the sport and, you know, you want to be who you are in sport, there is a place for you.
SARAH: There's a stereotype that queer people can't drive, but you know what?
(35:00)
MICHAEL: (laughing) Not true.
SARAH: (laughing) We are here to dispel that on this day.
KAYLA: Michael is out here changing minds. We can – Well, I'm not great at driving but Michael can!
SARAH: Changing minds and changing lives. Oh, fantastic. Alright. Sorry, Kayla. I asked you if there was anything you wanted to add and then I added two more things. Do you actually have anything you want to add?
KAYLA: I mean, I would like to ask Michael if there's any, like, any topics we haven't covered or anything that you, like, really wanted to get out there to the people.
MICHAEL: I think that's kind of been what I really want to put out there. I think we kind of got over, you know, what we need to change in the sport, what direction we need to go, and what it's like to be someone who identifies as apec in the sport.
KAYLA: Yeah. Main, I feel like our thesis for today is anyone can do a race.
MICHAEL: Anyone.
KAYLA: Anyone can do a race.
MICHAEL: Well, if you're willing to put in the work and learn how to drive.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: if you can drive. Okay. Anyone who can drive good can do a race.
SARAH: Yeah, probably not if you're like a dog, you know.
KAYLA: Did I tell you the news story about the dog, Sarah?
SARAH: You did, and then the next day I heard about it on my podcast.
KAYLA: Well, I'll tell the rest of everyone. I recently saw a news story. Okay, I told you. Okay, yeah, I remember telling you. Okay. So there was recently a news story that this guy was pulled over for speeding. Maybe he should be in racing. I don't know. This guy was pulled over for speeding.
SARAH: He was drunk. So I don't think it's generally recommended that you race drunk
KAYLA: Let me finish. I wasn't there yet. I wasn't there yet. This guy was pulled over for speeding. Yes, he was also drunk. And as the cop was walking up to his window, he saw the guy trying to switch seats with his dog so that it looked like the dog was driving, and he was in the passenger seat. And then the cop was like, what are you doing? So the guy got out and started running.
SARAH: Yeah, he was like, hey, what's up? And the guy ran away, and they apprehended him like 20 feet away.
KAYLA: Immediately. And then they were like, dude, what the hell? And he goes, I wasn't the one driving.
SARAH: Way to throw your dog under the bus.
MICHAEL: Geez. Oh my god. How drunk do you have to be to do that?
KAYLA: Literally. The news story I read, though, did clarify that the dog was not arrested. No criminal charges against the dog.
SARAH: Thank god. I was so concerned.
KAYLA: Do you think that people who race are more prone to getting speeding tickets? Or you're like, I'll actually go regular here. I race for my job. I don't need to go fast right now. I recognize this is a stupid question.
MICHAEL: It depends on the kind of environment. Dirt track racing, yes. NASCAR, no.
KAYLA: Okay.
MICHAEL: Yeah, I've got plenty of friends in the dirt track racing community who get speeding tickets constantly.
KAYLA: If you get...
MICHAEL: Or if they don't, they should be.
KAYLA: If you get too many points on your… Because you can't race without a license, right?
MICHAEL: Well, technically, you can drive in the lower NASCAR division when you're 15, so actually, no.
KAYLA: Yeah, I guess that's true. Okay, but what would happen if you got so many points on your license that it got taken away? Would you get kicked out of the sport?
MICHAEL: That I don't know.
KAYLA: Interesting.
MICHAEL: I honestly don't know about that anymore, because I know it used to be that you had to have a valid license, but I don't think that's the case anymore.
KAYLA: That's a little horrifying.
SARAH: They undid that?
KAYLA: That's a little terrifying.
MICHAEL: It is. I mean, if you go into the late models, which are still full-size stock cars, there are drivers who are 12 and 13 running those.
KAYLA: I don't like that. That scares me.
MICHAEL: Neither do I, honestly. But yeah, I don't know what would happen if you got too many points on a license. I do know that if you're caught in serious trouble with the law, NASCAR may suspend you.
KAYLA: That makes sense.
MICHAEL: So that could be something, so if you're caught reckless driving, then you are subject to a penalty from NASCAR, because that could be considered actions detrimental to the sport.
SARAH: Yeah
MICHAEL: So it's possible, I guess. But I don't know if it would just be a multitude of speeding tickets that would do that.
KAYLA: Probably not. That does seem to get back. I've recently learned what invented NASCAR, and it was like...
SARAH: You made that sound like a passive thing that happened. NASCAR was just invented.
KAYLA: Okay. Listen, though. Kind of. Because it was when… It was Prohibition Area.
SARAH: (laughing) Area?
KAYLA: It was the Prohibition Area. It was the… (breaks off laughing)
SARAH: Are you good?
KAYLA: I just think I'm so charming. It was the Prohibition Era when they were moonshining and bootlegging. And so people had to be drivers to move moonshine, but they had to be fast enough drivers that if the cops came, they could drive away. And that was how NASCAR started.
MICHAEL: It is
(40:00)
KAYLA: The people who did the bootlegging were the OG NASCAR drivers. So really, if you're speeding, you're just getting back to the heart of NASCAR.
SARAH: You're getting back to the roots of NASCAR.
MICHAEL: Yes.
KAYLA: Like a little, right? It was just people being illegal. So maybe all NASCAR drivers should be criminals.
MICHAEL: That’s a scary thought
SARAH: What are you saying about Michael?
KAYLA: I'm saying Michael should be a criminal, not that he is a criminal. Listen, if we're saying NASCAR is open to everyone, then it should be open to the criminals.
SARAH: Your takeaway from this podcast is, Michael, you need to do more crime.
MICHAEL: Because everybody knows I do not condone criminal activity.
KAYLA: Be ace, do crime.
SARAH: Be ace, do crime.
KAYLA: Who's to say?
MICHAEL: Except on Ace Visibility Day. That's when you're visible.
SARAH: Yeah that’s the day that they can see you.
KAYLA: Yes, don't do it that day.
SARAH: You've got to be careful.
KAYLA: Yeah, don't do it that day.
SARAH: On that note, Kayla, what is our poll for this week?
KAYLA: That's such a good question.
KAYLA: Maybe…
SARAH: should you do crime? Should you do crime?
KAYLA: No. I want to know how many people are racing dri – no, racing fans. Most of them probably aren't drivers. That seems like an unrealistic expectation of our listeners. But I want to know how many people that listen or follow are active racing fans.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: I want to see the intersection between the apec community and the racing community.
SARAH: We can have an answer for big fan, an answer for casual fan, an answer for no, and an answer for I've never heard of this.
KAYLA: Yeah. I do know some people have been talking to me about F1 since I've started talking about it on the podcast. I know there's some because they were telling me the tea.
SARAH: Cool. Alright, great. Kayla, what is your beef and your juice this week?
KAYLA: Oh
SARAH: the problem is that we recorded our last episode two days ago.
KAYLA: What's happened in two days? Well, my beef is my brain and when it does decide to do a spiral and be mentally ill, what a bother.
SARAH: Gosh, I hate when my brain does that.
KAYLA: God darn it.
MICHAEL: Dang
KAYLA: My juice is I'm almost done with my book and it's going well. It's
SARAH: reading a book?
KAYLA: it’s been stressful. I'm not writing a new one.
SARAH: It was just the way you phrased that.
KAYLA: Imagine I wrote a second book undercover without your knowledge. How mad would you be?
SARAH: I would be confused before anything.
KAYLA: Yeah, that's fair. Me too. No, but I'm almost done reading it and it's been very stressful because everyone's in a war and dying.
SARAH: Is this the same book you've been talking about for weeks?
KAYLA: Don't worry about it. It's very long and stressful.
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: it's very long and stressful and as I told you, I've been having a problem hyper fixating on it. So if I read it for too long, I feel physically ill because again, my brain is bad. Anyway, it's going well. People are dying, but not who I was worried about and maybe I looked at the last page because it made me feel better just to make sure that the people that couldn't die or I would have died didn't die.
MICHAEL: I have a habit of doing that with my manga. So.
KAYLA: It makes my anxiety better to know. I don't know the full extent of what's going to happen. I just know it's going to be a happy ending and that's what I needed.
MICHAEL: It's either that or with me, it takes away my anxiety, but my depression goes right up when I find out who dies.
KAYLA: Yeah, the duality.
SARAH: I find that I'm always tempted to read ahead to the last line of a chapter. So sometimes if I'm reading, if I'm on the last pages, I will literally just cover it up with my hand.
KAYLA: See, but I had to know.
SARAH: Anyway
KAYLA: It was literally causing mental problems.
SARAH: Jesus Christ.
KAYLA: I'm talking to my therapist about it. Don't worry.
SARAH: I'm glad you looked at it then.
KAYLA: Thank you.
SARAH: Okay, my beef is concrete poles. My juice is… What is my juice, Kayla?
KAYLA: Me.
SARAH: (mumbling)
KAYLA: Love of your life.
SARAH: My juice is...
KAYLA: You sent me some possum stickers. That can be your juice.
SARAH: I did send Kayla some possum stickers just randomly.
KAYLA: Yeah, so if you saw my Instagram story where I was asking who sent me them, it was Sarah.
SARAH: It was me.
KAYLA: We learned.
SARAH: I just sent her some possum stickers. They were fun and funky fresh.
KAYLA: It was good.
SARAH: Great. Alright, Michael. What is your beef and your juice this week?
MICHAEL: Okay, so my beef is probably bosses who only do what's best for them and clearly don't like their employers or their employees. That's something I've unfortunately kind of had to deal with this week. I'm not going to say who, but...
KAYLA: But we hate them.
(45:00)
MICHAEL: Yep, and my juice, probably the anime that got me out of that funk.
SARAH: Nice.
KAYLA: Hell yeah.
SARAH: What anime was it?
MICHAEL: So usually if I'm in a funk, a nice funny slice of life will kind of get me going.
KAYLA: Hell yeah
MICHAEL: So Miss Kobayashi's Dragon Maid has probably become my comfort anime. It's funny. I love the animation, the acting in it. It just, you know, it picks you up out of a bad mood. And there's also like, I've been watching the new season of Tanikawa, which was really good. Yes, I know I'm ace, but I do love rom-coms.
KAYLA: Same. We also do.
SARAH: A good rom-com slaps.
MICHAEL: Yes. Well, I love rom-com anime, not really rom-com.
KAYLA: Fair
MICHAEL: Then again, I really only watch anime now, if I'm being honest.
KAYLA: Fair.
SARAH: I love that for you.
MICHAEL: Yeah. So Tanikawa, Miss Nagatoro, Run A Girlfriend, just any of them. I find those will always pick up my mood. So if you have a rough day at work, just go home, turn one of those on. You'll be happy again in no time.
KAYLA: I love that.
MICHAEL: And it's much cheaper than a therapist.
KAYLA: (laughing) True.
MICHAEL: That was a joke. I do recommend therapy.
SARAH: Therapy and anime together. The perfect storm. Alright. Wonderful. Alright. Well, you can tell us about your beef, your juice, your love of NASCAR, your hatred of clear tape on the front of cars on our social media @SoundsFakePod. We also have a Patreon, patreon.com/SoundsFakePod, if for some reason you want to support us there. Sarah from the future, hit us with the patrons. Hello. It's Sarah from the future, the far future even. I would like to begin our patron read this week by apologizing to our patrons. Why, you ask? Well, for those regular listeners of our pod, you know that the pod releases on Sundays. But for patrons, $5 and higher, on occasion $2 and higher if we hit the wrong button, they get the pod a day early on Saturday. So if you're like, wow, I want my pod one day early. That's a perk for any. Yep. Well, sort of. Because here's the thing. It is Saturday and I am just now editing the pod, which means it's late and it's been late a couple of times recently. And I would just like to apologize for that. Also, because we literally recorded this last Sunday. Listen, listen, I am mentally ill and I am doing my best and it's not my fault that my best is not that good. Okay. Anyway, well, thank you for those of you who do support us in spite of this. Our $5 patrons who we are promoting this week are Jolly Lizbert, Julianne, Kathryn Bailey, Kelly, and Leila. Our $10 patrons, first of all, we have a new $10 patron. It's Ben Macleod. It's spelled M-A-C-L-E-O-D. But Ben is an 8 pound 50 patron, which is of course $10 in the US currency. I know an American whose last name is Macleod and it's pronounced like McCloud. But I don't know. I watched Ben be like, no, it's McLeod. I don't know what you guys are doing in the UK. Well, thank you anyway for becoming a patron. Let me know what you would like to promote. Our other $10 patrons are Arcnes, who would like to promote the Trevor Project. Alyson Maguire, who would like to promote… Oh, wait, sorry. Sometimes we struggle. This is correct. Alyson, who would like to promote Arden Gray and Ray Stoeve. Benjamin Ybarra, who would like to promote Tabletop Games. And I literally just checked to make sure Benjamin Ybarra was still a patron because I was like, look, Benjamin Ybarra has been around for so long. I cannot believe that maybe they're not a patron anymore and we just missed it. No, you are. Thank you, Benjamin Ybarra, and play some Tabletop Games in our honor. And Boston Smith, who would like to promote their YouTube and TikTok @yerbuddyBoston. Our other $10 patrons are David Harris, Derick and Carissa, Elle Bitter, my Aunt Jeannie, Koolen, Maggie Capalbo, Martin Chiesl, Mattie, Potater, Purple Hayes, Barefoot Backpacker, Ruby, SongofStorm, The Steve, and Zirklteo. Our $15 patrons are Andrew Hillum, who would like to promote the Invisibles Spectrum Podcast. Changeling Alex the ace cat, who would like to promote StarshipChangeling.net. Click4Caroline, who would like to promote Ace of Hearts. Dia Chappell, who would like to promote Twitch.tv/Melody Dia. Hector Murillo, who would like to promote Friends that are supportive, constructive and help you grow as a better person. John Young. Pause. Maff, who would like to promote catching up on the Podcast After Two Years. Nathaniel White, who would like to promote NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com, Kayla’s Aunt Nina, who would like to promote KateMaggartArt.com. Sara Jones, who's @eternalloli Everywhere. Our $20 patrons are Sabrina Hauck. Merry Christmas. And Dragonfly, who would like to promote the fact that when I do this with Kayla on the line, it's, it's, it's, and I kind of go a little crazy. It's, it's charming.
(50:00)
SARAH: But when I'm by myself, it's just manic and concerning. Anyway, okay. Back to, back, back to the past. Bye. Thanks, Sarah from the Future. That was so helpful. Before we go.
KAYLA: Love her
SARAH: Love Sarah from the Future. Michael, where can the children of the internet find you, support you? What can they do to, to, to be your biggest supporter?
MICHAEL: Okay. So obviously just following would be a great way to do it. You can follow me on Twitter at MichaelKline10A. I would be, it would be MichaelKlineRacing, which is my handle on everything else, but that was already taken.
KAYLA: Oh, rude.
MICHAEL: So it's a@MichaelKein10a on Twitter and at MichaelKleinRacing on Instagram, TikTok and Facebook. We also have a fundraiser set up on OpenFinder.com, where anyone can donate any amount and we'll put you on our car. We'll send merch and it'll help us out. Basically be a part of our program. It's kind of like a Patreon for motor sports. So if anyone's interested in doing that, just head over to OpenFinder.com and look up Michael Klein. And if you want to be a part of our program, feel free to sign up and you can make a donation of any amount.
SARAH: That's cool.
KAYLA: That is very fun. I will put all of those links in the show notes of this episode and I'll put it on our socials too. So you could go give Michael your money.
SARAH: Do it.
MICHAEL: I hate to ask that, but it's unfortunately what racing.
KAYLA: No, that's what racing is. And listen, if we want to fulfill our dream of being at a NASCAR race with you racing and all of us with ace flags in the crowd, then we're going to have to give you our money first.
SARAH: We need to continue to support you.
KAYLA: So that we can all fulfill our dream.
SARAH: Exactly.
MICHAEL: Exactly.
KAYLA: We just have to.
SARAH: Alright. Delightful. Well, everyone, please follow Michael, support Michael, bring ace flags to NASCAR races, even if Michael's not there. Just like, just do it. How do we end this podcast? Okay.
KAYLA: Who’s to say?
SARAH: Well, thank you for listening and thank you, Michael, so much for joining us and for being patient as we've tried to schedule this for the past three centuries.
KAYLA: Three years
SARAH: Tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows.
(52:14)