Sounds Fake But Okay
Sounds Fake But Okay
Ep 43: Living Up To LGBTQIA+ Stereotypes feat. Sarah's Sister
Hey what's up hello! Today Sarah's sister Emily, a gay woman, wanted to be on the podcast to talk about gay women who present themselves more femininely, or "girls who like girls who look like girls not boys."
Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/living-up-to-lgbtqia-stereotypes
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SARAH: Hey what’s up hello. Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I’m Sarah. That’s me.)
KAYLA: And a demi straight girl (that’s me, Kayla.)
EMILY: And me, Emily, Sarah’s sister.
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else that we just don’t understand.
KAYLA: On today’s episode: Being a femme lesbian
BOTH: — Sounds fake, but okay.
*Intro music*
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod. Sorry about all the noise; I’m currently recording this outside in the middle of San Diego, because I’m at Comic Con and there is nowhere quiet, so I’m sorry. But I had to rerecord this intro because the file got corrupted, which is fun.
Just a quick rundown, we’re here with my sister Emily, she identifies as a gay woman, don’t remember exactly what else we talked about but I think we talked about how she does not like the word lesbian. So you’re going to be dropped right in there, get ready for some talk about the word lesbian and the word nuptials, so 3,2,1, you’re in.
SARAH: I knew that you preferred the word gay but I didn’t know it was because you thought the word lesbian –
EMILY: It’s like moist, lesbian; sounds like nuptial –
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: Lesbian nuptials
KAYLA: Some moist lesbian nuptials.
SARAH: A gay wedding in the rain.
EMILY: But gay’s just way more to the point, and there’s no weird vowel sounds.
KAYLA: Great.
SARAH: Okay. Emily is on the pod today to talk about things. Good description.
KAYLA: You guys were at the gym, and you text me and you were like, my sister wants to be on the podcast, and I was like, okay, sounds good.
SARAH: But you wanted to ask first –
KAYLA: To start off, just to stay on brand as an ace podcast for a second, I wanted to ask you about when Sarah came out, because she didn’t really come out –
EMILY: She didn’t.
KAYLA: But what your reaction was, and what you thought.
EMILY: Oh, I wasn’t surprised.
KAYLA: (laughs)
EMILY: I just kind of figured, I was like okay, whatever, doesn’t matter. I just kind of figured. Although when you put that frame thing on your Facebook picture when you were in Germany, I looked at it and I was like, okay, cool. And then I texted my mom and I was like, hey did you look at Sarah’s profile picture? And Mom was like, I saw there are some nice colors and I was just like –
SARAH: No, Mom.
ALL: (laugh)
EMILY: No, no, no. I asked do you know what they mean? She goes I don’t know, maybe something German?
ALL: (laugh)
KAYLA: Julie, sweet Julie.
EMILY: Then I explained it to her and she was like, oh that’s cool.
KAYLA: Oh my God, what a precious woman.
SARAH: Incredible. Well, you never actually came out to me either.
EMILY: No. I figured you just guessed it.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: What a relationship.
ALL: (laugh)
SARAH: So goes it.
EMILY: I had actually talked to my friends about that, you being ace.
SARAH: That’s fun.
EMILY: In the prior year, and they were like yeah, that make sense.
KAYLA: Wow. That’s exciting.
SARAH: Were you surprised when you found out?
KAYLA: I wasn’t surprised, but I –
SARAH: It wasn’t something you previously thought of.
KAYLA: No. But you told me and I was like –
SARAH: Well I didn’t tell you anything.
KAYLA: Well I found out, I read your Tumblr.
SARAH: We talked about this last time.
EMILY: Oh, I haven’t stalked your Tumblr in a while.
SARAH: I don’t use it that much any more.
EMILY: See, that’s what I used to when you were in high school. I used to stalk your Tumblr.
KAYLA: I was telling her in freshman year I stalked her Tumblr, before we even followed each other, because she would post about how she was feeling and how she was doing, and I knew it wasn’t stuff she would tell me and so I used to –
EMILY: Yeah.
KAYLA: Wow.
EMILY: That’s why I used to read it in high school, but I don’t even know what the URL is anymore.
SARAH: It’s changed since then anyway, but yeah.
KAYLA: But I used to do the same thing, and that’s how I found out she was ace. Then we did follow each other, but that’s how I found out.
SARAH: I still use Tumblr, but I don’t put personal things on it anymore.
EMILY: Because you had a One Direction blog for a long time, and I had to sift through all that.
SARAH: (laughs)
KAYLA: That’s why you would do /tag/personal. That was a URL that my computer knew, at the time.
SARAH: (laughs) Incredible.
KAYLA: It just knew. I was afraid you would know, for some reason. I was like, she’s going to hate me. It was fine, I was just taking care of my local Sarah, fraudulently.
SARAH: It’s fine.
EMILY: And I forgot, there was one time, I don’t remember how old I was. I think maybe you were a senior in high school and I was still in college, or maybe it was your freshman year of college. Mom got into something about all these strange acronyms and colors of flags and things, and you were like, do you know that being asexual is a thing?
SARAH: When did I – I don’t remember that at all.
EMILY: We were in the family room, and I was like oh, okay.
SARAH: If it was my senior year of high school, then I didn’t know yet.
KAYLA: Did you know before she knew then? When did you start suspecting?
EMILY: When you were in high school, probably.
SARAH: When I was in high school, I was –
KAYLA: You must have been in college.
SARAH: I don’t remember at all.
KAYLA: You only came out the summer after our freshman year.
SARAH: Mmhmm. And then I “came out” the summer after that to the general world. That’s all I have to say on that topic. So now we’re going to move on into the actual topic of this episode –
KAYLA: Listen, I just thought it would be a fun thing to talk about, sorry.
SARAH: That was fine.
KAYLA: I just think it’s interesting.
SARAH: It’s a wild time. But Emily, tell us what you wanted to talk about.
EMILY: So my long-winded title of what I wanted to talk about is girls who like girls who look like girls not boys.
SARAH: Yes.
EMILY: Probably not very PC, but gay women who present more femininely.
SARAH: Rather than more “butch”, “masc”.
KAYLA: Because that’s the stereotype, is if you’re a lesbian or a gay woman, as you would prefer, then people expect you to wear men’s clothes or act like a man, or just have more masculine qualities.
SARAH: I remember when you were a freshman in college, you got a pixie cut, which is a very –
KAYLA: Gay thing to do.
SARAH: “Gay” thing to do.
EMILY: And there were multiple reasons for that. When I did that I had never intended on changing anything that I was wearing, because I feel like some people either get their hair cut and then change what they’re wearing or they change what they’re wearing and then get their hair cut. I just – My hair was destroyed from all the years of dance and hairspray and straightening and curling and putting it up and twisting it, and I was like well, I’m in college now, let’s just –
SARAH: Chop it.
EMILY: Chop it all off. And the stereotypical lesbian pixie cut was also a side quality, and I did like having short hair, but then I think it almost confused people more.
SARAH: How?
EMILY: Because, I don’t know. Because I would dress the way I dress now, like normally. I guess the people that are listening to this –
SARAH: Yeah, they don’t – Describe how you dress to our listeners.
EMILY: Oh, I love a good solid color.
ALL: (laugh)
EMILY: I don’t know, just like skinny jeans and shirts and stuff.
KAYLA: I wouldn’t say from what I can tell [that] you dress overly masculine or feminine, it’s just kind of, here’s my clothes.
EMILY: Yeah. I like the H&M basics section.
SARAH: She’s very into H&M, she’s a big fan.
EMILY: Anything non-patterned from H&M I probably own.
SARAH: Also, for those of you who aren’t American, non-American H&M isn’t the same as American H&M, I actually prefer German H&M to American H&M –
KAYLA: Isn’t it cheaper?
SARAH: Not necessarily, but I think German H&M leans a little more towards the Forever 21 style, whereas when I think of American H&M, I sort of just think of business casual.
EMILY: It’s like Old Navy.
SARAH: Yeah,
KAYLA: Yeah, but better.
SARAH: But I would say in terms of how you dress and how you present yourself, if there’s a spectrum between butch and femme, you’re somewhere in the middle, you’re not leaning very hard either way. I would say I dress more “masc” or “butch” than she does.
KAYLA: Yeah. Because we’ve had conversations out of our friend group of girls where we’re like, who’s the most masculine? And we were like, Sarah.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: That’s not because you’re very masculine, but I think out of all of us you dress more masculine.
SARAH: Yeah, but then yesterday, I wore a dress, which like –
KAYLA: So it’s like, you know.
EMILY: I think that’s funny though because even if you dress more masculine than I do, you put way more effort into your appearance than I do. Like when you wore a suit to the wedding, that was masculine, but you had your hair done and you’re way better at makeup than I am.
KAYLA: People often think that you’re a lesbian though, Sarah, just from the way you dress.
SARAH: Oh yeah, a lot of people do think that I’m a lesbian.
EMILY: I’ve had people ask me that.
SARAH: I’ve had people think I was a lesbian also.
EMILY: Especially when you wear your Monsters University hat.
SARAH: It’s a great hat, and I can’t find it.
EMILY: Really?
SARAH: I can’t find it.
KAYLA: Is it like a gay hat?
EMILY: No, it’s from the movie Monsters University.
KAYLA: I know, but why is that –
EMILY: I think it’s just because it’s torn up kind of, on the sides, and then when you wear it with your hair down, it’s –
SARAH: That’s really weirdly specific. Yeah, I’ve definitely had people think I was gay just by looking at me. Do you have people think you’re gay, just by how you present yourself?
EMILY: No.
SARAH: See, that’s interesting.
EMILY: And my hair – I guess I forget you people can’t see me, my hair is long now, so it’s not like –
SARAH: Yeah, you don’t have the stereotypical gay look. But also, so the YouTuber Ingrid Nilsen –
KAYLA: Is she gay?
SARAH: She’s gay.
KAYLA: That’s exciting.
(10:00)
SARAH: And I remember when she came out as gay, I was shocked because I did not see it coming at all, because she had openly had boyfriends, at first I thought is she bi? And then she was like no, she’s gay. She’s talked a lot about how the way she dresses is very femme, she literally has a beauty YouTube, she’s a beauty YouTuber. And she’s a very femme dresser and she’s talked about how there’s this weird expectation that she look more butch, but she doesn’t want to.
KAYLA: When people find out that you’re gay, are they surprised based on how you look, or is it by the time they find out you’re gay, they know you well enough?
EMILY: If I don’t know them well, yes, sometimes it throws them people off, but I usually don’t –
KAYLA: Well, it’s not like you’re going up to someone and going hi, I’m gay.
EMILY: This could probably be a whole other podcast, but I know there’s a lot of people who, their LGBTQA++++ identity is very central to who they are, and they talk about it a lot. For me it’s not and it’s just kind of there and I go about the rest of my life as it is, so I don’t normally bring it up in conversation, especially with people I don’t know. Not because I don’t want to, just because it doesn’t feel relevant, so I guess by the time where I get to the point where I say that to someone, I’ve probably talked to them enough that they’re like, okay, it’s not –
SARAH: Seems legit. Do you ever feel pressure as a gay woman to present yourself a certain way, or are you just like eh, whatever.
EMILY: Not any more, no. I mean, when I was younger, I was very confused, the whole like, I don’t understand what this is, blah blah blah. Thankfully when I danced growing up, our dance studio was affectionately nicknamed Tina Marie’s School of Dykes –
SARAH: Which I didn’t know, until I was in college (laughs), I did not know that.
EMILY: So there were a lot of lesbians. But the models that I saw were more I guess masculine-looking, so that was kind of my expectation, and I didn’t know, I don’t know. And then the other part of me is like, okay, if you dress the way I feel comfortable dressing, no one will ever look at you and be oh, you’re a lesbian, which is sometimes good but if you’re trying to meet someone to date someone, that’s not helpful because there’s no way of like, there’s no gang symbol you can flash.
ALL: (laugh)
EMILY: If you see a woman wearing men’s pants and a button-down shirt and nice shoes with short hair, you’d be like oh, she’s probably gay. But if you look at me, you’re like, I don’t know.
SARAH: That’s a human.
KAYLA: We were talking about that with Nathan.
SARAH: A couple of episodes ago, it hasn’t aired yet. It’s not like you’ve really listened to the pod anyway.
EMILY: Oh.
ALL: (laugh)
EMILY: When you talk about sex, I don’t want to listen to my sister talking about sex.
SARAH: We don’t actually talk about sex that often on the podcast.
KAYLA: Also it’s not like Sarah’s having sex, so it’s like –
EMILY: I know, but it still makes me very uncomfortable.
ALL: (laugh)
KAYLA: I mean, that’s valid. I don’t want to talk to my sister about sex either.
SARAH: So we were talking to Nathan about that.
KAYLA: So he is straight, but people often think he’s queer, and so he was talking about how that’s hard for him, because he’ll go to flirt with a girl or ask her out, and he’s like, they don’t even view me as a dateable being because they just assume that I’m gay, and so it kind of sets him off from the beginning, he doesn’t really have a chance with people.
EMILY: Well here’s a situation that was kind of upsetting to me at the time, but was pretty ironic. The one time I went to a Pride event, the only one that flirted with me was a guy.
KAYLA: That’s sad.
SARAH: That is interesting.
EMILY: He was really laying it on thick, and I was like nope, no.
SARAH: I’m good.
EMILY: At the time I was like, (frustrated) come on.
ALL: (laugh)
SARAH: That is kind of funny though.
KAYLA: Yeah, that’s funny. Also, who – (pause) I don’t know.
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: It just seems, I guess it’s a bad thing to say because bi people exist, but going to a Pride and flirting with the opposite sex seems counter-intuitive to me? But that’s also not PC of me to say, I don’t know.
SARAH: I understand what you’re saying though, you’re going to assume that most people there –
KAYLA: It’s just not what I would expect to happen at a Pride event. Obviously, it’s going to, but –
SARAH: If I were someone who were looking to flirt with people and I went to a Pride event, I feel like my first instinct wouldn’t be like ah, I’m going to go flirt with a guy, because it’s a Pride event.
EMILY: I don’t know, I wasn’t going looking to flirt with anyone, I was just there, and I feel like there were a lot of assumptions that were made that you would not expect to be made at a Pride event.
SARAH: How do you feel about Pride? Because you’ve been to Pride –
EMILY: I’ve been one time. I don’t know, I think it’s really great for the people that like it, I don’t particularly enjoy things with lots of people that are very crowded.
SARAH: Valid.
EMILY: Also the one time I went it was literally 110 degrees that day.
KAYLA: Absolutely not.
EMILY: And I thought I was going to die, so that may have tainted my view. But I would like to, sometime in my life, go to San Francisco Pride or something, but I don’t tolerate large crowds of people well, so.
SARAH: That’s fair.
KAYLA: And there’s also the whole argument about the commercialization of Pride, I don’t know, I have mixed feelings about that.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: You talked about that a little before.
SARAH: It was last episode.
KAYLA: Was it?
SARAH: Last one that we recorded, at least.
KAYLA: Sweet.
SARAH: Wild.
KAYLA: I feel like in at least gay men’s relationships, a lot of people are like, who’s the girl in the relationship and who’s the guy? Is that something that you also hear, as a gay woman?
EMILY: I’ve only been asked that one time, but I guess the people that I’ve dated dressed very similar to me, the types of things we would wear would be similar, and the person that asked me that I think genuinely had no clue how to approach the situation.
KAYLA: Yikes.
EMILY: So they just asked. I know other people get that sometimes, but I think at least this day and age, or at least now, people are more hesitant to ask women things like that, ideally.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So the people that you’ve dated have also been people that aren’t overly butch.
EMILY: At the time, yes.
SARAH: I was about to say, at the time.
EMILY: Now, my first girlfriend is very butchy now, but I expected that, and I figured that would happen eventually, so.
SARAH: Well, she had super long hair when you were dating, and then she chopped it and now she has short hair.
EMILY: I always kind of expected her to do that, and when we were dating, we were in high school for a good portion of it, and so she lived in a pretty conservative town and went to a pretty small high school, so until –
KAYLA: It’s kind of hard to just go full butch.
EMILY: Yeah, it wasn’t until she got to college that she did that. I think she’s much happier now for it.
KAYLA: That’s good.
SARAH: Do you feel like if you dressed more “femme” or more “butch”, that would change your perception of yourself, or would you just feel like uncomfortable dressing that way?
EMILY: I would feel uncomfortable. I don’t know, I pick out the clothes that I have because I like them, and that’s what I want to wear and so if I push myself too into super girly, I would feel uncomfortable. [If I did it] all the time at least, I know there’s times where I like to dress up and put on make up, and wear a dress and look cute. There’s never a time when I’m like, I want to put on very masculine clothes, doing that has never made me be like, yeah I feel more like myself.
SARAH: Has there been – I guess I feel in my mind, your sense of style hasn’t changed too much over the course of your life. Has there been any time where it’s been like, okay I feel more comfortable now, dressing as I do, or has it always just been pretty consistently yeah, this is what I want to wear so this is what I’m wearing?
EMILY: I mean, there’s always the whole middle school/high school, trying to fit in, blah blah blah. Other than that, no big significant, I just wear whatever. However, I do recall one time where I think I was 10, I was really sick of wearing jean shorts that did not allow me to be very flexible or mobile, so I convinced Mom to buy me a pair of boy shorts from the boy side of Old Navy, and I loved them because I had so much more movement.
SARAH: And they probably had great pockets too.
EMILY: They did, they had great pockets, I wore them to Spring Hill, and that’s a –
SARAH: Summer camp.
EMILY: A Christian summer camp.
SARAH: A Christian summer camp, for context.
EMILY: And I wore them with my sparkly Limited Too t-shirts, and I loved them.
KAYLA: Wow, that sounds like a look.
EMILY: I have pictures, it’s not great.
ALL: (laugh)
SARAH: Something I feel I’ve learned as I’ve gotten older and I guess more comfortable is like, listen, ain’t nothing stopping you from shopping in the men’s section. It’s great.
KAYLA: You’ve been very excited about the men’s section recently.
SARAH: It’s wonderful
KAYLA: Your one shirt that you never shut up about.
SARAH: What shirt?
KAYLA: Like, a Hawaiian shirt. And I’m sure this has come up on the podcast before because at least once a month, Sarah will text me or talk to me and say “I would have such a great style if I was a man.” I think that is the one thing about herself that she believes the most. I never stop hearing about it.
(20:00)
SARAH: Because here’s the deal. I think we’ve talked about this before –
KAYLA: I’m sure we have.
SARAH: I’m just going to tell you again. Listen, I feel like if I were a guy, just genetically, if I were a guy, I think I wouldn’t have as large of legs.
KAYLA: I think you probably would, but since you were a guy, it would be okay.
SARAH: Yeah but like –
EMILY: No.
SARAH: I don’t think I would. If you look at – We’ve got our mom’s legs.
EMILY: Our dad has chicken legs.
KAYLA: Oh that’s true, you’ve told me that before.
SARAH: So I feel like if I were a guy, I might have gotten my Dad’s chicken legs and so it would have made the whole pants thing a lot easier. And also just as a female human, my style’s a little all over the place, but if I were a guy, I know exactly what kind of style I would want. So sometimes I wear that, but often I can’t because I have large thighs.
KAYLA: Your life is so hard.
SARAH: I know. (laughs)
EMILY: Thanks, Mom.
SARAH: Thanks, Mom. But as a straight human, have you ever had anyone suspect that you were anything but straight?
KAYLA: Not that I have been told, I don’t think.
SARAH: Because based off of the way, if we’re talking about stereotypes with the way people dress and first impressions, I would say I don’t know why anyone would assume that about you.
KAYLA: I feel like I dress not overly-feminine, but pretty femininely.
SARAH: You’re not the kind of person who’s wearing skirts every day –
KAYLA: No, but in general I feel just the patterns of my clothes and the cuts and everything are pretty feminine.
SARAH: Yeah, because I’ve been pegged as gay multiple times, by a multitude of different people.
KAYLA: Not just by straight people, but also by –
SARAH: Other gay people.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Which is interesting.
KAYLA: Yeah, because you’d think they would – I don’t know, you would think they would have a better gaydar, I guess.
SARAH: Apparently, I just give off very gay vibes, I don’t know.
KAYLA: I mean, I see it. I couldn’t tell you why, but I see it.
EMILY: I just kind of find it funny because you’ve always been way more – Well, after the age of 14, you’ve always been way more fashion forward than me, and always very with it as far as having fashionable clothes, so even if you’re dressing in a more masculine way, it’s still a very on-brand, on-trend –
SARAH: I’m on the trends.
EMILY: And so I always think of oh, if you’re dressing – This is another stereotype, if you’re dressing in a more fashionable way, then you must be straight.
SARAH: Yeah. It’s not true.
EMILY: I’m not at all fashionable –
SARAH: (laughs)
EMILY: Nor am I straight, so what are you going to do?
KAYLA: Also, I feel like androgynous styles are in now –
EMILY: They also are, that’s true.
KAYLA: And so that probably is making it more confusing out there to tell people’s sexualities by what they’re wearing.
EMILY: Flannels have become a large issue.
SARAH: Yeah, because flannels aren’t a gay thing any more.
KAYLA: No. I can’t believe the straights have taken your flannels.
EMILY: You’re wearing flannel pants, but those are fine.
KAYLA: These are pants.
EMILY: Everyone has flannel pants.
KAYLA: These are also men’s pants, so they have a little dick button.
EMILY: I hate those.
SARAH: Don’t ever say that again.
KAYLA: Dick. Button. We have matching pants.
SARAH: We do, we have the same pants.
KAYLA: We bought them together because we’re in love.
SARAH: We’d known each other for like, two days.
KAYLA: And we were in love.
SARAH: Okay. What was I going to say? You made me forget.
EMILY: Yeah, the whole androgynous thing, that is definitely – Back when I was in high school, I spent a lot of my time online watching people online be like oh yeah, I like flannels and blah blah blah, and I wear high top Converse that are pretty dirty with some slightly baggy jeans and I am a homosexual. Oh, and a snapback.
KAYLA: This makes me think of Hannah Hart, I feel like that’s still how she dresses.
SARAH: She does, yeah.
KAYLA: I feel like her style has evolved.
SARAH: She’s definitely come into her own style. And her girlfriend is a lot – She dresses more, she dresses a lot more femme.
KAYLA: And she’s also bi, her girlfriend
EMILY: Is she?
KAYLA: I think so.
SARAH: That’s exciting.
KAYLA: She’s on Buzzfeed.
SARAH: Yeah, she is.
KAYLA: Wild.
SARAH: I forgot what I was going to say. Also I think because androgynous is sort of in, it makes it easier for me to acquire clothing that –
KAYLA: You want.
SARAH: I want. It’s just interesting that as an ace person, people think I’m gay.
KAYLA: Well, as an ace person, do you feel pressure to dress or present in a certain way?
SARAH: No. I think that’s the interesting thing though is that a lot of times, people assume, for women especially, that women dress to impress men, or whoever they’re attracted to.
KAYLA: But especially men.
SARAH: But particularly men. And so if they’re going to wear revealing clothes, it’s for men and if they’re going to wear make up, it’s for men which, first of all is not true.
KAYLA: Right.
SARAH: But second of all, I am not dressing – I mean, as most people are, but I’m not dressing for anyone, because I’m not trying to attract anyone, so it’s like I don’t feel pressure to dress in more scantily-clad clothing or in a more butch way because I feel like there is no pressure like that in the ace community. I almost feel like if anything, there’s pressure – Not pressure, but there’s this confusion that like, you care what you look like? And you’re ace?
KAYLA: I feel like stereotypically ace people are like, I’m going to wear sweats and not do anything with my hair, and I feel like, I don’t know if I’ve ever heard this, or it’s just something that I wouldn’t be surprised if I ever heard, would be like, oh why are you dressed in such a tight outfit or whatever, you must not be ace, if you’re dressing this way.
SARAH: I’ve never heard that, but I can imagine that it’s been said.
EMILY: I was thinking after we went to the gym, we went to McDonald’s to buy iced tea, not chicken nuggets.
SARAH: (laughs) Not chicken nuggets.
KAYLA: Thank you for clarifying.
EMILY: And we walked there because it would have been too confusing to drive a car over there.
SARAH: It was next door.
EMILY: Yeah, but we would’ve had to turn left.
SARAH: It was complicated.
EMILY: It was a whole problem.
SARAH: It was easier to walk
EMILY: So we walked, and you were wearing those Nike spandex shorts.
SARAH: I’m wearing my spandex shorts.
EMILY: And I initially was like, oh my gosh, you can’t go into a public space like that, that was my little mom voice going off in my head, but then I was like, you know what? It really doesn’t matter.
SARAH: If these were like, I don’t know, two feet longer, they’d be leggings, so –
KAYLA: They’d also look funny. They’d look like the biking shorts that men bikers wear –
SARAH: I said two feet.
KAYLA: Yeah – Oh two feet. No, I was thinking if it was one foot longer, they’d look like those weird biking shorts.
EMILY: They make them like that –
SARAH: I hate that.
EMILY: My mother once accidentally purchased me a pair and I got all excited and I threw them in my dance bag and I put them on at dance, and I looked like I was going to participate in a triathlon.
KAYLA: Yeah, I hate that.
SARAH: Did you keep them?
EMILY: No.
SARAH: I was going to say.
EMILY: Luckily I kept the tags and we returned them, they were not good.
SARAH: Anyway. These were actually yours, these used to be yours.
EMILY: I don’t remember having blue ones.
SARAH: Yeah, you did. Anyway, this was totally irrelevant.
ALL: (laugh)
SARAH: I feel like there’s kind of – Kayla keeps doing weird things with her donut pillow.
KAYLA: I’ll just be over here.
SARAH: I have a very specific memory, I was probably a junior in high school so I was like 15, 16 and I was wearing these shorts, and they were pretty short shorts, and you jokingly referred to them as easy-access shorts and that made me so mad. I got very mad at that because I was like, no, I’m just wearing them because I like them. At the time I didn’t know I was ace, but you know.
EMILY: Sorry about that, I probably wouldn’t say that now.
SARAH: Yeah, I figured you probably wouldn’t do that now.
EMILY: 18-year-old me thought it was a good idea.
SARAH: I think having ace people being like, I don’t dress for anyone, because I’m ace, I think that’s good in helping people understand, but I think it’s important that’s also transferred on to everyone else, not that that just applies to ace people.
KAYLA: I also don’t think it’s incredibly shameful to dress for other people sometimes. I don’t think that’s a bad thing. I just think you shouldn’t assume that.
SARAH: You shouldn’t assume that, and I think it can be a little harmful to your own self if you do that 24/7.
KAYLA: Yeah, I mean I wouldn’t say I do it 24/7 but there’s definitely times where I’m like, I want to look good because maybe I have a crush on someone I’m in class with, or I’m going out and I’m like, I want to look good because –
SARAH: Well yeah, I’ll do the same thing where it’s like oh, I’m going to be seeing people today, I want to put make up on. But I think that’s more so for myself feeling good about myself, not impressing other people.
KAYLA: Oh yeah, often I’ll put on makeup and I know it’ll rub off, like I’ll put on something that I know will rub off, but it makes me feel better because I forget that it rubs off and in my mind I’m like, I look better and it’s totally for me, because I know it’ll go away, or not matter to anyone else, people won’t even notice it but I’m just like yes, good.
SARAH: Well because Emily, you don’t wear makeup regularly, so when you do wear makeup, why do you decide to?
EMILY: Because the bags under my eyes are too black, that’s been a thing I’ve done recently.
SARAH: That’s fun.
KAYLA: Yeah, that’s relatable.
EMILY: And put on nothing else –
ALL: (laugh)
EMILY: Because when you graduate from college, apparently your eye bags become fifty shades darker.
SARAH: Interesting.
KAYLA: That’s exciting to learn.
SARAH: Mine are so dark already, I can’t wait.
(30:00)
EMILY: I’ve worn more makeup recently personally because I think I’ve had more things that I want to look nice for, like a multitude of bar crawls and –
ALL: (laugh)
SARAH: Emily actually borrowed my jacket recently.
EMILY: I did.
SARAH: Very exciting.
EMILY: See that was a time I put on makeup, I curled my hair at work, don’t do that –
ALL: (laugh)
EMILY: I was feeling so great about myself, and I was not out there trying to attract anyone but I just put on make up, and I felt super good.
SARAH: Feeling myself.
EMILY: I felt super good. And last weekend I went to Chicago with my friends and I was like ooh, I’m going to put on makeup, because I want to look cute, because we were going to the city.
KAYLA: Got to look cute for the city.
EMILY: Yep. Also, just if I’m overly too tired, and if I’m overly too tired and I don’t have time, it’s not happening, but –
SARAH: Yeah.
EMILY: When I say put on makeup, I mean concealer and mascara and sometimes highlighter.
SARAH: Oh wow, you go for the highlight, crazy.
EMILY: Well I put it right here because it helps with my fifty shades darker bags.
SARAH: That’s new and exciting. She’s talking about the inner corners of your eyes.
EMILY: Because this is audio only.
KAYLA: Oh, you can’t see.
ALL: (laugh)
SARAH: I often have to explain what Kayla is doing.
KAYLA: It’s not my fault I’m an exciting person, I’m sorry.
SARAH: But yeah, I think that there’s definitely an expectation that based off of what your sexuality is, you’re going to dress a certain way.
KAYLA: You should dress and look and even act a certain way.
SARAH: And act a certain way, yeah. Do you feel pressure to act a certain way, as a gay human? A guman, one might say?
EMILY: No, but I think – Oh, this was the other thing I had in my head to talk about. So obviously there’s challenges being a woman and presenting more masculine, that creates a whole other set of challenges but one benefit of that is if you are a lesbian and you dress more masculinely, you generally don’t have to come out to people. They can just figure it out.
On the flipside, dressing more towards the middle or more feminine, you have to come out all the time, no one can ever guess or ever figure it out. I know when we first started college, and meeting new people I was very nervous about that because I wasn’t out in high school, at least to people I went to school with, so I never had to worry about it, but then being in a whole new environment and realizing that I was going to have to do that over and over and over and over again was kind of scary.
KAYLA: Well also because you said it’s not a huge part of your life, so it’s kind of like – I feel like people expect it to be a big part of your life, and so they would expect to know right away, or be told, or you’d be more excited about it I guess, and so I feel like it might be weird to people that it’s not a big deal to you.
EMILY: Well, and that’s like another – I guess at least living in a liberal college town, people talk about it all the time and I know one of my friends in undergrad, he came out during our freshman year, and then being gay became everything to him, it was like his whole life.
We talked a lot during his process of coming out and all that stuff, and I was glad to be there for him, but as soon as he was out, he was like waving sequins and the rainbow flags and doing the whole thing, and I was just not that person and I think he was confused about that, and so, yeah.
SARAH: I think that’s just a thing with everyone where it’s like, regardless of whether you’re straight or anything else, some people are just more open and willing to talk about dating, and who they’re seeing, and like, I’m trying to date someone, so even straight people, there’s definitely a spectrum there.
KAYLA: I know a big spectrum of people that don’t like to talk about their love life or anything, and then people who will openly tell anyone who they most recently had sex with, or what they’re doing right now.
SARAH: Exactly.
KAYLA: But it’s just, but I think people expect gay people to maybe all be on one side of that, for some reason.
EMILY: I agree. And I also think part of that comes from what kind of gay people we see in the media. During my time in college, that shifted a lot, but I don’t know, a lot of people watch RuPaul’s Drag Race and that’s their perception.
KAYLA: That’s what they know, yeah.
EMILY: And I think, I don’t know. I think Orange is the New Black and shows like that have changed that a little, but back when I was in high school, gay marriage wasn’t legal yet, and there was nothing like that on TV.
SARAH: I think especially because when people first think of the LGBTQIA+ spectrum, they think of gay men, white gay men so that’s what they imagine. And so there’s a lot more representation of white, gay, as some people would call twinks, in the media than any other –
KAYLA: Well, I think because those are just for entertainment value, I feel like those are the kind of people that are most entertaining to watch. If you look at the new Queer Eye, which I think is a very good show, but it’s also –
SARAH: I actually know nothing about that show.
KAYLA: Well a lot of the – There’s five gay guys and they go give people makeovers and the majority of them are that kind of stereotypical flamboyant person, and they are definitely the ones that get talked about the most and it seems to me, maybe it’s just because I am also the most entertained by them, they get the most airtime on the show.
SARAH: It’s also interesting because looking at our family there’s a high percentage –
KAYLA: You guys have so many gays in your family.
SARAH: Of queer people in our family, but no one in our family is that person who’s constantly talking about being gay, there’s no one in our family who’s like that, and even I guess the most “flamboyant” of the queer people in our family is still not that person you’d expect to see on RuPaul’s Drag Race or on Queer Eye, that sort of thing.
EMILY: I think at least for me, looking like me, I don’t really ever see people that look like me in mainstream media. I’m first of all very average-looking –
ALL: (laugh)
EMILY: So that’s the first problem. But I’m trying to think of, I guess the only – I don’t know, the only people I can think of that I could strongly relate to on TV were Callie and Arizona on Grey’s Anatomy and that was still even like, they’re fancy doctors who have sex in closets –
ALL: (laugh)
EMILY: And how they got their child is just a very complicated situation, there were never people that I was like, oh wow those people are highly educated and they work a nice job and then they have children and a dog. No one wants to make TV shows about people like that.
KAYLA: Well also if you look at the outfits that they put TV characters in, they’re always so nice. If you look up how to buy the same thing that someone’s wearing on TV –
SARAH: Here’s this $500 jacket.
KAYLA: It’s so expensive because even if it’s a kid in a high school in a show, they’re dressed in the most – They’re always super put-together, super stylish and it’s like, that’s just not how most people are, and that’s kind of how you dress, and it’s like you’re never going to see that on TV, because people on TV I think feel like no one wants to see that.
EMILY: Also the other show that I watched briefly was The L Word, much too much nudity for my taste on that show, but they were all dressed super nice, and I’m like, but I’m just so average.
KAYLA: But like, what about a t-shirt?
ALL: (laugh)
EMILY: But I think one – I don’t know, I watch a lot of family vloggers on YouTube and I love two-mom family vloggers that wear very regular clothes. So they’re like, we’re going grocery shopping, and then I can be like yeah, you’re so cool –
SARAH: I’m just like you.
EMILY: I also go grocery shopping. You’re college-educated, you’re going to have a great job, or you do have a great job and you’re going to be so awesome.
SARAH: You won The Amazing Race: Canada. (laughs)
EMILY: Oh no, but they’re very beautiful. Maybe I’m a little biased.
ALL: (laugh)
KAYLA: I feel like that’s why YouTube is getting so popular now and there’s people watching vloggers because they’re oh, that’s more normal and more like, slightly attainable.
SARAH: Yeah.
EMILY: There’s a couple that I recently found that they won the fourth season of The Amazing Race: Canada and they’re a lesbian couple and the one went to, they both went to undergrad in the US on softball scholarships, because why else would Canadians go to undergrad in the US?
KAYLA: It’s also just very gay of them to play softball.
SARAH: What stereotypes?
EMILY: And the one, she went to law school in the States too, and I would say they probably dress considerably more feminine than I do, but when they were on the Race and they were not doing their hair and make up and stuff, they dressed like how I would dress, and it was just nice to see. And of course, it had to happen in Canada, because that’s where all the representation is and Justin Trudeau, whatever.
ALL: (laugh)
EMILY: It was just nice to see because I feel, at least I think, The Amazing Race is a very popular show –
SARAH: It’s a great show.
EMILY: They always have the stereotypical gay couple and they’re usually two very squeaky-sounding white boys, so it was just nice to see that. And they make YouTube videos and I love watching them.
SARAH: I also think, and this is jumping back to two conversations ago, but I also think that how you present yourself and how big of a role your sexuality plays in your life, you’re going to surround yourself with people who are similar, and so if you’re very flamboyant, very like, I’m gay and it’s great and I want to talk about it all the time, you’re going to be friends with those sorts of people.
(40:00)
KAYLA: Because that’s going to be who you meet at the places you go to talk about it.
SARAH: Right, but if you are not like that, I feel like you are more likely to end up friends who may not necessarily have the same identity as you, because I’m just thinking of your closest friends, as far as I’m aware they’re all straight.
EMILY: Yeah.
SARAH: So if you’re not going to be super out there about it, you’re going to attract people who are also not super out there about it, and maybe more likely to be straight, in that case.
KAYLA: But why would a straight person – A sane straight person probably shouldn’t be super out there about how straight they are.
SARAH: (yells) I’m straight
KAYLA: That’s just a lot for me, I don’t know.
EMILY: When I talk about my friends with other gay people, they’re like, your three best friends are straight? And I’m like, yeah, because I like them as people, and they’re really good people and like –
SARAH: Well, I know other ace people but none of my closest friends – I mean, you fall under the umbrella, but none of my closest friends are straight up ace. Most of them are just straight.
KAYLA: Which is also just because it’s a smaller community to find people in.
SARAH: Yeah.
EMILY: That’s true.
SARAH: Kayla, what’s our poll?
KAYLA: Oh God. How much would you say you talk about your sexuality?
SARAH: Yeah, that’s fair.
EMILY: What are the options?
KAYLA: All the time, never not talking about it.
SARAH: Yeah. Two –
KAYLA: Two –
SARAH: Regularly, I’ll bring it up.
KAYLA: Regularly.
SARAH: Three, only if it’s relevant to the conversation and four, never. Alright, cool. You can find that poll on our Twitter @soundsfakepod, you can also find us on Tumblr, soundsfakepod.tumblr.com. You can also email us, soundsfakepod@gmail.com.
Kayla, where can they listen?
KAYLA: You can listen anywhere you find your podcasts, except Spotify. iTunes, SoundCloud – I’m going to keep calling them out until someone starts a riot, and we get ourselves on Spotify. Anywhere you find your favorite podcasts.
SARAH: Yeah. We also have a Patreon where you can give us money at patreon.com/soundsfakepod.
Our $2 patrons are Sara Jones and Keith McBlaine, our $5 patrons are Jennifer Smart, Asritha Vinnakota, Austin Le, Drew Finney and Perry Fiero.
Our $10 patrons are Emma Fink, you can find her on YouTube by looking up Emma T Fink, and Tristan Call who would like to promote their friend @rationallyparanoid on DeviantArt and Tumblr.
Emily, is there anything you’d like to promote?
EMILY: I will be starting graduate in the fall, and I’m going to be taking on a hefty amount of student loans, so if you would like to mail me any money –
SARAH: (laughs) Oh my God.
EMILY: You can DM them on Twitter, and they’ll give you my address. Thank you.
ALL: (laugh)
KAYLA: That I think is the best self-promotion we’ve maybe ever had.
SARAH: That was good.
KAYLA: That was a good one.
SARAH: Do you want to promote any of your social media, or no?
EMILY: I have a cooking Instagram.
SARAH AND KAYLA: (laugh)
KAYLA: Since when?
EMILY: A while, but none of my friends know about it.
SARAH: I follow it.
EMILY: It’s not very good and I don’t know how to take pictures of my food –
SARAH AND KAYLA: (laugh)
EMILY: It’s @fakechefem.
SARAH: Which made me mad, because when we were little, our mom never let anyone call her Em, and then I was like Emily, why are you calling yourself Em?
KAYLA: Just to rebel, maybe.
EMILY: Oh no but now these people will know that my name is really Emily, because on my Instagram, it just says Em because I don’t want to be found.
SARAH: Emily is such a generic name.
EMILY: I know, it’s the most popular girl’s name from 1986 to 2012.
SARAH: Okay.
EMILY: In the United States.
SARAH: Okay, well you can find Emily on Instagram @fakechefem. Thank you for listening, tune in – Thank you for also being on this pod, forgot to say that part.
EMILY: Oh you’re welcome. You didn’t even feed me that much, chicken and a biscuit.
SARAH: They’re crackers, for those of you who –
EMILY: Because all the food she has, I’m allergic to.
KAYLA: To be fair, you’re employed and Sarah has zero money.
SARAH: Emily’s allergic to corn, which makes things very complicated. Okay, not relevant. Thank you for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows.
