Sounds Fake But Okay
Sounds Fake But Okay
Ep 299: Gold Star Asexuality and "Actual Asexuals"
Hey what's up hello! This week we talk about the concept of gold star asexuality and the harm and confusion caused by a community of "actual asexuals"
Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/gold-star-asexuality-and-actual-asexuals
Kayla Kaszyca
P.O. Box 410021
Cambridge, MA 02141
Sarah Costello
P.O. Box 16453
North Hollywood, CA 91615
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SARAH: Hey, what's up? Hello, welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl. I'm Sarah that's me
KAYLA: And a bi-demisexual girl that's me, Kayla.
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.
KAYLA: On today's episode: Gold Star Asexuality.
BOTH: Sounds Fake But Okay.
SARAH: Where is the emergency? Why do you have to pass me 12 times?
KAYLA: There's probably an emergency somewhere, I would guess.
SARAH: It's kind of like how it's five o'clock somewhere; there's an emergency somewhere.
KAYLA: I mean, that's… yeah, probably. There's probably always an emergency somewhere.
SARAH: There's probably an emergency within every square mile at any given time
KAYLA: I don't know if I would go that far. There's a lot of square miles where there's nothing.
SARAH: It depends on, I guess, depending on population density. So, like if we're in like Beijing, a lot of emergencies in a square mile.
KAYLA: Oh, I see. Okay, so you're spreading them out?
SARAH: If we're in just the fields of Kansas, fewer.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: We really need to do it by per capita population density.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: You know, driving home from work today, I was like, “I want this to be an efficient podcast.”
KAYLA: That's so interesting because we didn't start until after 11 P.M, and we're already not being efficient.
SARAH: I didn't leave work until after seven. Okay? Listen… Anyway…
KAYLA: Then you said…
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod
KAYLA: Hello!
SARAH: Also, it doesn't help since we didn't pod last week. We haven't, like, had conversations.
KAYLA: See, yeah, we haven't talked in like years, perhaps.
SARAH: So…
KAYLA: There’s too much energy.
SARAH: Anyway, hi people. How are you?
KAYLA: We're back. Hi
SARAH: We're doing a podcast. Do we have any housekeeping or shall we try and regain our efficiency?
KAYLA: Okay, I do have one thing, but it's not going to help the efficiency.
SARAH: Oh no.
KAYLA: Okay, I would like to make a call for people to send me things in the mail.
SARAH: Okay, yeah.
KAYLA: When I was a child, I collected buttons because I just think they're cute. And when you buy new clothes, at least back in the day, you'd get a little plastic baggie, and there would be extra buttons for if a button fell off your shirt. You could sew it back on, and it would be a matching button or whatever. They don't do that so much anymore, which upsets me sometimes.
SARAH: But sometimes…
KAYLA: But sometimes, but not as much as you would like. So anyway, I found my old button collection, and I was like, “I'm going to get back into collecting my buttons.” And I found a really cute dish at the antique store, and I said, “This is where my buttons will live.” And I was at my parents' house, and I stole a bunch of my mom's buttons, I didn't steal them, I asked for them, and she gave them to me. Anyway, I was like, you know what I could do is crowdsource buttons…
SARAH: Crowdsource buttons
KAYLA: Because I have a P.O. box, and there's probably people with buttons. I don't want your buttons that you need. Okay? And I don't want you to buy buttons.
SARAH: Right. Spare buttons
KAYLA: If you just have spare buttons around, if you have them, I have a P.O. box, and you can just put them in there.
SARAH: And look, if you're just sending one or two buttons, you could totally get away with not putting extra postage on that.
KAYLA: Yeah. Why would you? Just put it in like an envelope like it's a letter?
SARAH: Yeah, I mean, if you have like 12 buttons you're sending, you would probably make it a little heavy, and you might want to be safe…
KAYLA: If they're plastic buttons, though, they're not that heavy.
SARAH: Yeah, that’s fair
KAYLA: And sometimes people put a lot of paper in an envelope.
SARAH: I always err on the side of caution. I filed my taxes…
KAYLA: I literally would have never thought of adding extra postage in my life. So that's where the two of us are. It didn't even cross my mind.
SARAH: I sent my taxes in the mail because my dad has TurboTax, and he only has so many e-files for free.
KAYLA: Nice.
SARAH: And so, I had to send mine in the mail, and the thing about California state taxes is you also have to include your entire federal tax return. So, it's like 40 pages.
KAYLA: Oh my God.
SARAH: So, it was like this thick ass envelope, and I was like, “This definitely requires two stamps.”
KAYLA: Yeah, I wouldn't have thought of that. Anyway…
SARAH: I stole the stamps from work. It was... my own stamps.
KAYLA: It's fine. Yeah
SARAH: I do have a lot of my own stamps because sometimes I like to buy them when they seem interesting, but…
KAYLA: When they're pretty, yeah
SARAH: And they're forever stamps.
KAYLA: Forever. They're not stamps…
SARAH: They're not going to get…
KAYLA: Right here on my desk. They are… They are from… stamps
SARAH: American…
KAYLA: They're boring. I know. I've had these for like maybe a decade. Anyway, I'll put my P.O. box in the description of the episode. I'll put Sarah's too. She deserves a present. Don't send her the buttons. Send me the buttons.
SARAH: Send Kayla the buttons.
KAYLA: It's me, Kayla. Send me the buttons. Send Sarah something else.
SARAH: Send the buttons to Boston.
KAYLA: Oh my God, I'm going to start a non-profit, Buttons to Boston.
SARAH: And send…
KAYLA: Coca-Cola to California.
SARAH: No, don't do that, please.
KAYLA: But you need it.
SARAH: First of all…
KAYLA: Cherry coke to California.
SARAH: First of all, I've been able to access my cherry coke just fine recently…
KAYLA: Thank God
SARAH: Except for the fact that it has been ungodly expensive.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But you… something that starts with an L or something starts with an N. Either would work.
KAYLA: Oh, I see. Not the... Oh, yeah. Not the state. Send legumes to Los Angeles.
SARAH: I don't like legumes.
KAYLA: Send... You don't like licorice? Do you? Send Lice
SARAH: No, don’t. I think that's actually like a crime.
KAYLA: That's a crime, for sure. Send lipstick to Los Angeles.
SARAH: No, please don't. No. Well, because California in particular is really picky about like bringing agricultural products into the state.
KAYLA: That's fair. You shouldn't send lice anywhere.
SARAH: So…
KAYLA: Send… do you like lollipops?
SARAH: Certain flavors. We're going to stop. Don't… send me mail if you want, but don't feel obliged to send me things.
KAYLA: Yeah. You don't… Yeah, that's fair. You don't have to feel obliged to send me buttons either, but…
SARAH: I think you should feel obliged.
KAYLA: They're probably just sitting there in your mom's sewing basket, you know, in the cookie tin that doesn't have cookies anymore, in the sewing supplies, okay, go in there.
SARAH: I recently bought a travel-sized sewing kit, so I now own my own sewing kit. I am a big girl.
KAYLA: That's amazing.
SARAH: Anyway, um…
KAYLA: Okay, now for real
SARAH: Now for real, Kayla, what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: This week we're talking about something that definitely sounds fake to me and sounds stupid, if I may be so bold
SARAH: Foolish
KAYLA: Foolish, if you will, and that is the concept of gold star asexuality or "actual asexuals.” Sarah is holding up a gold star and also other colored stars to the screen.
SARAH: Well, it's several colors of stars, but it does include gold.
KAYLA: Gold, yeah. I thought of this because while I was away last week, I spoke on a panel at a communications...
SARAH: Oh, I forgot you did that.
KAYLA: Yeah, it was lovely. Some communication scholars that like our podcast and our book invited me, and it was in Michigan, and I was like, “I would like to go there anyway,” the panel was about varioriented aces, which is a word that I had not heard before, I think, but it's people that you have an ace identity and also another identity
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Of a different... that doesn't match.
SARAH: Of a different flavor
KAYLA: So, like me being... yeah, me being bi-demi, and there were other people of other flavors, and I forget the context, but the actual asexual Reddit came up and it reminded me of its upsetting existence
SARAH: I like that.
KAYLA: Um, and I was like, I don't think we've done a full episode on this, so why the heck not spend an episode being angry at people?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I have a question for you.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: You know how like because white people are awful, like all white people are bad?
KAYLA: Yeah, I do you know.
SARAH: You know?
KAYLA: Uh, yeah.
SARAH: Does that mean like since definitionally I am a gold star ace, does that make me bad?
KAYLA: I mean, I would... I don’t know
SARAH: Let's define it for the kids at home.
KAYLA: Okay. So… yes, gold star asexuality, similar to being like "I'm a gold star gay"
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: I will define it the way that the actual asexual Reddit defines it, how about that? Yeah. So, there's... okay, don't go there unless you're one of these people. I cannot imagine any of these people would like to listen to our podcast because I don't think they like demisexuality
SARAH: Probably not.
KAYLA: So, I cannot imagine you're here, but…
SARAH: If you are…
KAYLA: No one go to this Reddit
SARAH: Have an open mind, okay? I hope you enjoy this podcast episode.
KAYLA: I don't think you will, but anyway, so I'm just going to go to say don’t go to this Reddit
SARAH: Open mind, we're keeping our arms open to welcome them into the community
KAYLA: Sure. Anyway. So, the actual asexual Reddit is for people who are asexuals who do not experience sexual attraction and do not experience primary sexual desire. So, these are people that are asexual, that's it. No micro labels, anything like that, they do not feel any sexual attraction ever and they will not be having sex, thank you very much.
SARAH: What do they mean by primary?
KAYLA: That's such a good question. And I don’t have an answer
SARAH: Is there a secondary?
KAYLA: I don't know.
SARAH: Okay
[00:10:00]
KAYLA: So, basically these are people that are like, "I am just asexual, I do not have sex, I never feel sexual desire, I've never had sex with anyone, and so I am the epitome of being asexual and I am a gold star… “
SARAH: I am a perfect ace. Yeah
KAYLA: Yes. So, it's basically like a gay man being like, "Well, I never have had sex with a woman or dated a woman, and so I'm a gold star gay, and I'm perfect,”
SARAH: And therefore, I'm better than you and I'm...
KAYLA: Yeah, like more pure and whatever
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Which is stupid for so many reasons. Um, so basically the actual asexual Reddit is just a bunch of people who have left the broader asexuality Reddit and are upset at that Reddit for people being in there, being like, "Ace people can and do have sex."
SARAH: What do they talk about in the actual asexual Reddit? What is there to discuss?
KAYLA: Well, so a lot of it is like discussing the other asexual Reddit. It's a lot of it. And then conversations…
SARAH: I mean, okay, you're obsessed with us, we get it.
KAYLA: Yeah, literally. And then others that are things that I think would be similar to the asexuality Reddit, just of like, "This is my experience being ace," or like, "Oh, so annoying when this happens," or, you know
SARAH: It's just a more limited scope of the types of conversations? Okay
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I don't like it.
KAYLA: They're going to hate this episode, man. They're going to hate. These people have a lot of feelings and they are not going to like this.
SARAH: Great. I hope they all listen.
KAYLA: Anyway… me too. Uh, please don't talk to us
SARAH: Unless it's to say, "Wow, you really changed my mind"
KAYLA: Yeah, sure. Um, I just… I don't understand why there has to be this purest ideal of like, if you have sex and like it or feel any sexual attraction ever, like you are not asexual and you are not.
SARAH: And if we're going to follow that logic, there's a way that I as an aro-ace who does not do the date and does not do the sex and has only done the kiss in the context of the theater. There's a universe in which I could say, "Well, actually I'm the ideal and anyone who is asexual but is not aromantic is not gold star because to be a proper actual gold star, you have to be both." Like, there's a world in which I could make that argument too. So, my question to them would be like, "Okay, well so you accept the split model, but you still separate yourself from the more specific micro labels and you think you're better than...” like, I just... it seems so strange to me that they like accept certain aspects of the aspec community but not others.
KAYLA: Yeah. And looking through the Reddit, it seems like... like some of the posts talking about like why they left the broader like r/asexuality is feeling confused about how people could be asexual and have sex. And have such attraction…
SARAH: So, they just didn't do any further research?
KAYLA: I suppose
SARAH: They felt confused and ran away?
KAYLA: In a certain way I can understand that of like not being able to relate to that experience. But yes, I don't think that leaving is necessarily like the correct avenue to take that because you're not able to relate to the other people's feelings.
SARAH: That's like saying, “I left the realm of progressive politics because there were black people that talked about the racism they face and I can't relate to that so I left”
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like that's… you know, or like, there were people talking about how abortion bans are affecting them and that doesn't affect me, as an ace who doesn't have sex. So, I'm leaving. Like, what?
KAYLA: Yeah, there's also other people saying that they left because as… like a sex averse, a repulsed person, they felt very isolated because a lot of the talk, I guess, in that Reddit, which I haven't seen, I haven't felt like it was like an overwhelming presence in that Reddit, but just of people that were not sex averse or repulsed talking about their lives, whatever. So, I would be curious to understand your perspective on that.
SARAH: Yeah, I can totally see wanting to have a space where like, the sex averse, the sex repulsed aces hang out.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Where it's like any talk of certain things is… there's another place for that, like, this is not the subreddit for that, but to call it actually asexual and to start being exclusive in that way is a problem. There's no problem in my mind of having that smaller community; the problem is the context in which it is situated and presented to the rest of the world.
KAYLA: Yeah, absolutely
SARAH: And the way these people think about themselves in comparison to other aspecs.
KAYLA: Yeah, I totally agree because yeah, I can absolutely understand, especially if you are sex repulsed, and then you go into a Reddit and granted things are tagged, like, things are very well tagged in these Reddits, like it should be relatively easy to avoid sexually explicit content if everything goes correctly.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But I totally understand just not wanting to see that or deal with that
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And you know, if that's just like not your jam. But yes, you're right, like there is a very aggressive tone to being like “we're actual asexuals”
SARAH: And it's a... I can't think of the word. It's a very hoity-toity, “I'm better than you” superiority… It's a superiority thing that you're handing to yourself to make yourself feel better, I don't know if maybe these people feel like they've been ostracized by the broader community and so if they look at themselves and say “I'm superior to these other people who identify as aspec, who do have sex,” like that gives them a sense of superiority that they failed to get in other places because people look down upon them for their asexuality, I don't know.
KAYLA: Yeah, it definitely feels like an internalized aphobia vibe.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Um, also the rules for this subreddit add a whole kind of other layer to this, so first of all, one of the rules is no, “aces can like sex rebuttals” so they will not be having that conversation in this Reddit.
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: Blur out usernames for “ace cringe” posts, which to me means that they are posting like cross-posting things from the other asexuality Reddit that they are cringing at and they do not like.
SARAH: I mean, at least they're blurring things out, but…
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Still…
KAYLA: Yeah, they don't want this sub to be seen as one that promotes attacking people, so
SARAH: But by its very nature, you're saying you're superior, how is that not…
KAYLA: Yeah. One in the, uh… another rule is no garlic bread dragons or Denmark memes, “these unfunny memes are all over the subs, if you want them go there, not here”
SARAH: But cake is allowed?
KAYLA: Um, yeah, I guess, which is very interesting because I know that there is absolutely a subset of the aspec community that does not like those memes, and there's a variety of different reasons, some of them I think are totally valid
SARAH: I think sometimes it's just overdone
KAYLA: Sometimes it's overdone. I've heard from some people that like it can seem very infantilizing, which is like an issue I already have. I've heard black folks say that like this seems like very like a lot of things pulled from white culture and I like have nothing to do with that
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So, like valid arguments from other people, but this just seems to be them being like “I hate that.”
SARAH: Yeah, whoever started this is just like, “I have a vendetta against these things.” Cake memes are fine but garlic bread dragons and Denmark, that's so rude to the country of Denmark.
KAYLA: I know, we knew that whole thing is a situation in a bit, like, everyone should be stopping the Denmark one
SARAH: Yeah, but… yeah, for context, the Denmark one is that like “oh, aspecs should band together and take over Denmark,” but I'm really against imperialism and colonialism generally, so I think let's maybe not take over Denmark is my personal preference
KAYLA: Yeah, perhaps. Oh, they also… someone wants a new flag for just the actual asexuals.
SARAH: Oh my God.
KAYLA: So
SARAH: It's like when in the gay community they were like “we need a specific flag for bears and a specific flag for otters,” and it's like, you know what? you do you boo, but I'm not going to remember all of them.
KAYLA: I mean, it's so hard to keep track
SARAH: Like as an aro-ace I already have three myself.
KAYLA: True, yeah
SARAH: It's too much. Um, my one note that I had when Kayla suggested this topic was if we're going to accept the premise that you can be like a gold star ace or a gold star gay, I love the idea that you could also be a gold star straight, like if you are a woman… are you laughing at me? Or are you laughing at your phone?
KAYLA: I'm laughing at you, that's what it was
SARAH: But it was delayed because you were looking at your phone
KAYLA: I'm just searching… I'm looking at this sad, sad Reddit
SARAH: I know
KAYLA: Continue, I'm paying attention now
[00:20:00]
SARAH: But I love the idea that you could be like a gold star straight
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Because like, okay, say you're a woman, if you kissed your female friend at a college party because your boyfriend thought it would be hot, like, you would think, like, oh that's in service of your straightness, but no, you're tainted, you've kissed a woman, you're not a gold star straight
KAYLA: Silver maybe
SARAH: Maybe
KAYLA: That's funny
SARAH: Can a woman even be a gold star straight because women when they're babies, oh, all babies touch boobs
KAYLA: Okay, Sarah, now we're just… now this is a whole other thing
SARAH: I'm just saying that's how absurd it is, like…
KAYLA: I know, yes
SARAH: These arguments, if you want to follow them to their natural conclusions, you'll end up with absolutely absurd shenanigans like that
KAYLA: That's… well, okay, but if… no, because then if we're going to go there it's… never mind
SARAH: Breastfeeding is not sexual, I'd like to just be clear
KAYLA: Thank you. It just reminds me of people like coming out as straight, which I think is hilarious, I recently watched the movie ‘Theater Camp,’ which is very, very good
SARAH: It is acted on a plane
KAYLA: A good plane movie, and one of the children at the Theater camp at the end, like, comes out as straight to his dads, and they're like, “It's okay, you can play football,”
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And it's just very... I find those jokes very funny.
SARAH: At work, I read a script recently where one of the characters was straight but everyone thought… like, everyone thinks he's gay, and they kept being like, oh, like it's okay, like you can, like, you know, and he's like, “No, I'm literally straight”
KAYLA: “I'm literally straight”
SARAH: And then he was like trying to be more like, “masculine” and…
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: The people were like, “What are you doing?” like…
KAYLA: Sir please.
SARAH: And it's just like, look, maybe you're a little bit of an effeminate straight man, that's fine
KAYLA: Preferable even perhaps.
SARAH: I have a friend who has told me, who is unfortunately straight and has told me that her type is men who are slightly feminine, so
KAYLA: Same, probably. I was just talking… Dean and I were talking about… what were we... Oh, he was saying that we were a straight couple, and I was like, “No, we're not, we're a straight passing couple,” and we were having a whole conversation about it, and we were just talking about how like, me being bi affects our relationship, and he was like, “Well, yeah, like part of it means that you don't need me to be like some super macho, like, masculine man,” and in my head I was like, “Yeah, I mean like the more like a woman you are, it's almost better.” Like, “yeah, the more manly you are, the worse it is, I fear.”
SARAH: Yeah, I mean, my sister-in-law is bisexual and the first woman she dated she married, so
KAYLA: There you go, I love that
SARAH: There's that
KAYLA: When you know, you know
SARAH: Or oftentimes you hear like bisexuals or pansexuals or people who just have… who are queer and experience a many attraction to a many
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: They refer to their attraction to men as like unfortunate
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: They're like, “Unfortunately, I am attracted to men,” you know what, I also hear straight women say that though too
KAYLA: I think it's maybe a universal situation for anyone attracted to men
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: I've even heard gay men say that, so.
SARAH: Men be better
KAYLA: Men, explain yourselves
SARAH: In the wise words of Milania Trump, be best
KAYLA: Be best. Me saying that really makes me sound like I'm just a lesbian
SARAH: It's giving Reneé Rapp
KAYLA: It's giving Reneé Rapp, I promise I'm not, that I'm aware of, pretty sure I'm not, anyway
SARAH: Only time will tell
KAYLA: Only time… I guess, but I'm pretty confident on this one. Anyway…
SARAH: I recently found out that someone who I know, who like is in my mind the gayest of gays, used to be married to a man
KAYLA: Oh
SARAH: And I was like, “I'm sorry, what?”
KAYLA: Are you sure?
SARAH: Huh, but they're still friends
KAYLA: That's lovely
SARAH: It was like Covid realization and then also like, I'm a little bit non-binary also and the husband was super chill with the non-binary thing and was like, you know, “we can still,” but then the person was like, “Unfortunately, I have also realized I am not attracted to men”
KAYLA: So sorry, oopsie
SARAH: And now they have a really hot girlfriend so it's great
KAYLA: Wins all around. Anyway, back to stupid people, I found another post in this unfortunate Reddit of a screenshot of, I think is a Facebook group called ‘Not Like Other Aces: Non-Repulsed Aces After Dark’ and none of the description sounds bad to me, so it says…
SARAH: The title is giving ‘pick me’ though, I don't…
KAYLA: No, yeah, the title is unfortunate for sure but yeah, so it's an “18 plus safe space for aces who are generally non-repulsed/negative to share freely about their experiences without harming their repulsed comrades or being invalidated for their preferences.” I think that's nice.
SARAH: I think that’s good
KAYLA: You're not going to like trigger anyone.
SARAH: Yeah. I think we can have a group session to brainstorm a new…
KAYLA: A new title
SARAH: Name for the group but other than that I think you're doing great
KAYLA: But it says “aces who are personally repulsed but socially positive or indifferent are likewise welcomed. It's a place welcome for anyone 18 plus on the ace spectrum who's sex positive or sex favorable to share stories, memes, drawings, writing, kink, anything else of a more sexual nature that sets you apart from the abstinence or celibate stereotypes of the asexual community.” But like to me other than the name that seems like
SARAH: Yeah, that’s…
KAYLA: Like what we were talking about, like yeah, having a smaller space for like people that are similar to you completely makes sense, like you want to share your experiences but the people that are up in this Reddit are upset because they're like, “you're already 75% of the community, why do you need to like…”
SARAH: They’re upset about a private Facebook group?
KAYLA: It's literally private, it says private group and they're like, “you're making things actively unsafe for the rest of us,” it's a private group
SARAH: Also, the whole point of the group is not just to have a community for these people to talk about things but to make sure that they're not making other aspecs uncomfortable in broader group spaces, it's not just like a selfish thing, like I think in a lot of ways that is a very thoughtful and considerate way to go about your business and they're like, “How dare you be considerate of me?”
KAYLA: Well, because they also seem to be upset that like the group exists at all and that like people are sectioning off but it's like…
SARAH: They didn’t start this
KAYLA: I feel like you started it, like…
SARAH: What do you mean you're upset that people are sectioning off? Excuse me, mx. actually asexual
KAYLA: Yeah. I think some of the upsetness is that these people are saying that they like aren't like other aces and the actual asexuals are like you're the majority, like don't act like you're the special one and it's like why are… I get that, I do get that but it's also like why are we fighting about who gets to be the minority, like is that really the fight we want to have?
SARAH: Oppression Olympics, hello, but also, I think although sex averse, sex repulsed sexuals might be, or people who would be considered “gold star” aces, although they may be in the minority numerically, that is… for people on the outside, that is how they perceive asexuals.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And so as much as I don't like how the title of that group sounds really 'pick me,' it is getting to a deeper point which is that we're trying to prove to people outside of the community that we are not what you think we are, we are more diverse and there is more to us than what you just think or expect. And so, you do have to use that kind of language and that kind of terminology to push back, and I understand that like, this is meant to be an in-group, it's not necessarily meant to be outward facing, so like, you don't necessarily need to do that there, but I just think it's ignorant to be like, well, you're 75% of the community, so like, you shouldn't even be saying that, but it's like, maybe they are 75% of the community, but people on the outside think they're 0% of the community, so…
KAYLA: Yeah, for sure
SARAH: Are we going to dispel that incorrect stereotype, or are we just going to let it go?
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I mean, they would probably like people to let it go because they would like it to be true, but it's not.
KAYLA: Yeah, they also seem very offended by the description saying, “Away from the celibate,” or whatever stereotypes, and they're like, “Oh, they're calling us a stereotype,” and it was like, no one said that that was you.
SARAH: No
KAYLA: You just happen to be celibate
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But like, that doesn't...
SARAH: It's like, you know…
KAYLA: They weren't saying that to you specifically.
SARAH: You know that tweet that's like, I hate Twitter because you say something like, I like waffles, and then people will be in your replies being like, “Why do you hate pancakes?”And it's like, “Bitch, I didn't say that.” That's what this feels like.
[00:30:00]
KAYLA: No, it really is. It's very... I just… it's very frustrating. And I do think… I don't even know if that's true, I wanted to say that like, maybe some of it could be solved with language because I do know, and like, we've talked about this before, it's difficult calling it the asexual community when asexual is also one of the identities but does not clearly describe everyone.
SARAH: That would be like calling all rectangles squares. Not all rectangles are squares, all squares are rectangles, but it doesn't go the other way.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: But that would be like referring to all rectangles as if they are squares
KAYLA: Right. So, like, I don't know if that would make this better if there was like a better name for the wider community, like just calling it the aspec community would like make it better so that they didn't have to... you don't have to share a name with your identity and the community, but like, I don't know that that would fix it because it doesn't seem like people who think this way think that someone like me should be in the community.
SARAH: Yeah, they don't want a bigger, broader tent, they want a smaller tent and they want to be exclusionary, which is kind of against the whole shtick of the aspec community.
KAYLA: Yeah, and it just... like, on one hand, I understand, you know, not fully being able to relate, like a sex-repulsed person who has never had sex, never going to have sex, not fully being able to relate to an asexual person who is sex-positive and does it all the time, but there are still so many common experiences that it benefits you to be in community together
SARAH: Yeah, and to have conversations together and talk about your different experiences and how you react to them and how you dealt with them. And if they want to talk about more, like, specific, explicit things about sex, they can go to that other private Facebook group which is why they made it
KAYLA: Yeah, like, you know, we have this podcast, right? Like, you are technically a gold star asexual, I am a demisexual person, right?
SARAH: Give me a prize
KAYLA: And we still have like 299 things that we can talk to each other about
SARAH: Right. And the things that do differ just lead to interesting conversations
KAYLA: Right. Like, I just like… yes, the identities are different, but it just doesn't make sense to me that it would benefit you to section yourself off when like, even in this Reddit, you know, on the posts aside from complaining about other ace people, so many of them are the same topics of like, “Oh, this allo person said this really shitty thing to me,” or like, “I had this experience coming to my realization of being ace.” Like, so much of it is just the same
SARAH: The same, yeah
KAYLA: Content and it's just like…
SARAH: Because get this, we're all under the same umbrella
KAYLA: Yeah, amazing.
SARAH: Imagine. I think it's those same types of people who only want to be in groups with people who are like them. I mean, you see those everywhere, you see that with fucking white people who are afraid of anyone who is not white, and so they only want to be in their insular communities, you see that with people of all sorts of types of identities and sometimes it can be good to have those communities to maintain certain cultures and that sort of thing. In the context of white people, rarely good, I would argue
KAYLA: Yeah, yeah
SARAH: But you know, I think if your mindset is to isolate yourself from anyone who is different from you, well fuck, what are you… you're on the wrong planet then, like, I don't know what to tell you
KAYLA: Yeah, no, true…
SARAH: Especially if you live in the United States, good fucking luck, dude
KAYLA: Yeah, brother. No, there is… like, of course, there are benefits to being around people that are similar to you, right? Like, you can commiserate together, you can understand each other easily, it can be comforting, whatever, but yeah, you're never going to get anywhere if you don't leave that circle and interact with other people
SARAH: Yeah, if you're exclusionary to anyone who does not have the exact same experience as you
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: It doesn't get you anywhere
KAYLA: Yeah, you're not going to learn anything, you're not going to… nothing is going to happen
SARAH: You will become a hateful person and that may feel invigorating in the moment but…
KAYLA: But it's not going to…
SARAH: Long term, I don't know what it's going to do for you
KAYLA: Probably nothing good. I just don't get it
SARAH: I get it, I just hate it
KAYLA: No, yeah, I don't like… yes, I understand the train of logic that they have taken, I understand how you would arrive there, I just cannot relate…
SARAH: Yeah, I…
KAYLA: To that experience
SARAH: I think that train is headed to a decrepit station in the middle of nowhere
KAYLA: Damn
SARAH: Where you can't access anything else. So, I personally wouldn't want to get on that train
KAYLA: Yeah. It just feels like further isolating to me, because then you're cutting yourself off from any community, any organization. Like you've lost AVAN, the biggest organization; you've lost most like…
SARAH: Literally anyone except for that subreddit and like maybe one or two other groups.
KAYLA: Yeah, like you've lost large organizations, you've lost like the people you could follow on TikTok, you've lost this podcast, what a great loss to you, I mean, yeah, like where do you have to turn?
SARAH: You've become completely self-isolationist, and then if you're going to complain about feeling isolated in your experience, I mean, that's in large part your fault. So, there are people that share this experience with you and want to talk to you about it and want to have these conversations, and you're telling them no because you think you're better than them. So, if that causes you to feel isolated tough luck, numb nuts.
KAYLA: Get them
SARAH: That's all I have to say on the matter.
KAYLA: I really hope they don't come for us.
SARAH: Do you think they'll be mad that I called them numb nuts?
KAYLA: I think that there's probably more that they were mad about, like, I don't think that helped for sure, but like I think they were probably already mad.
SARAH: I don't know why they would be here, but if they are here, to you I say, have you considered talking to someone who's not exactly like you? It can be illuminating.
KAYLA: Thoughts?
SARAH: Secondly, if there are people who got this far into the episode just like hate listening, um, we have enough followers who will fight them on our behalf; we don't need to do it ourselves.
KAYLA: That's actually so true. I just feel like there needs... that's not even true, like I was going to say there needs to be more education about like the actual definition of asexuality so people can understand that having sexual attraction sometimes and like having sex any amount of times is a valid expression of that. But like that information is already out there
SARAH: There will always be people who are willfully misinformed who just live in their bubble and believe what they want to believe. And that is an aspect of humanity that we cannot get rid of, and that sucks because it makes life harder in literally everything.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Have you looked at American U.S. politics recently?
KAYLA: Bad, yeah
SARAH: Absolutely rancid. But I mean, that's… To be human is to be a lot of things, and that's one of them, baby
KAYLA: I suppose. It just also, like, because then you know people that think that also are not going to be ready to have the conversation of like having trauma can cause you to be asexual or like you could just be asexual for a time in your life and then not be anymore. Like, those are like deeper and much more complicated situations that like those people are not ready to have that conversation, which is upsetting because then you're isolating even more people
SARAH: Right. And to me, the thing that's most kind of upsetting or frustrating about this whole thing is that the people who identify with this actually asexual group will go on to miseducate others
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And be a voice and to stand up as someone who is like a part of this community and then spew rhetoric that I just think is wrong and I don't want those people to become the face of our community. Um, and so you know, that's why you got to try and intercept it when you can by sending them this podcast because that'll do the trick.
KAYLA: I just don't think so, but yeah, that… yeah, it is unfortunate.
SARAH: Yep
KAYLA: Yep
SARAH: Anything else?
KAYLA: Just that for those of you not in that group, remember that you are valid in your asexuality no matter what these people are saying. And if you have sex sometimes or all the fucking time or if you feel sexual attraction sometimes or if you were not asexual once and then something traumatic happened and now you are or you feel like maybe one day you will no longer be asexual, that that is all fine and you are part of this community and you belong here and we love you
SARAH: All of you come here, I got a gold star, I'm going to stick it on your forehead, get close
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: I got it
KAYLA: I'm here
SARAH: I got to give a sticker.
KAYLA: Thank you
SARAH: Um, and if you are like me, what would technically be considered a gold star asexual or a gold star aromantic or a gold star aro-ace, I would like to remind you that we suck and we are the worst
[00:40:00]
KAYLA: Preach
SARAH: And we have to accept that, we have to be humble about that
KAYLA: Sure, yeah, thank you, thank you
SARAH: And what could be more humble about that than bragging about how we must be humble
KAYLA: How humble you are, yeah, yes, absolutely, absolutely
SARAH: We all deserve a prize, anyway, and by we all, I mean everyone in the community, to be clear
KAYLA: Yes, no, just Sarah
SARAH: Like a little bouncy ball for everyone
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: All right, Kayla, what's our poll for this week? What color bouncy ball would you like for your prize?
KAYLA: What prize would you pick? I had a dentist when I was a kid that had just like a prize chest like you were a pirate when you were done with the dentist, it was so fun
SARAH: Or like those things where you put in a quarter and you get like a little thing?
KAYLA: Like a…
SARAH: Yeah, you open it up, and you're like, I got one of those sticky hands that you throw at the wall and then within 30 seconds gets covered in shit.
KAYLA: Gross. Yes, I get just thoughts on gold star asexuality
SARAH: I think we should come up with an alternate star system that you just apply to yourself
KAYLA: Oh, okay
SARAH: Like you're just like I identify with being a purple star ace because… I mean, you know, whatever purple star means that like has no actual value attached to it, it's just like a identifier
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So, if anyone has any ideas about that
KAYLA: It's kind of like what if you are a mermaid, like what color would your tail be?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: One time I asked Dean that, and he said army green.
SARAH: Army green? He's such a man
KAYLA: A boy, he's a boy. I want to see if he's awake or not, Dean? He's not responding.
SARAH: Damn
KAYLA: He can't defend himself.
SARAH: I mean, my computer case is probably roughly that color
KAYLA: Yes. Come here. He goes, “Did you call on me?” I want you to… this is live, the mic is hot. I'd like you to defend yourself choosing army green as your mermaid tail color
DEAN: It was a joke
KAYLA: It wasn't. He said it was a joke, but it wasn't.
DEAN: It was a joke
SARAH: Okay, then if it was a joke, what color would it be?
KAYLA: So, Sarah wants to know, what color would it be if that was a joke? Color… Oh, okay, monochrome vibes.
SARAH: I didn't hear it, what was it?
KAYLA: Orange, like his hair.
SARAH: Okay, you must be a Weasley
KAYLA: Or blue, like a royal blue. Okay
SARAH: Great talk
KAYLA: Goodbye. I'm not convinced it was a joke. I'm really not.
SARAH: Kayla, what color would your tail be?
KAYLA: I think it would be like a holographic purple.
SARAH: I can see that.
KAYLA: Thank you.
SARAH: I'm struggling with mine because I think if it's something that you choose as like a child, I definitely would have picked…
KAYLA: It's teal
SARAH: Like an aqua, an aqua blue.
KAYLA: But then you would blend right into the ocean, and you would just look like a torso.
SARAH: I would just be a torso. But also, I think I… I think blue is such an easy answer. Like…
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And also, my problem is I have strong opinions about clashing blues.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I understand that all blues are blue, but I don't think like a light blue or an aqua blue and like a navy blue, I don't think they look good together, like I think they clash. And so…
KAYLA: So, then you would clash with the ocean.
SARAH: I wouldn't be able to wear anything that was any other flavor of blue.
KAYLA: Your seashell bra could not be blue.
SARAH: Right, and I have blue eyes, but depending on the color of my tail, like if it's the wrong color of blue, it might make my eyes look like gray or green or something
KAYLA: I don't think you can pick blue. I don't think your tail can be blue is what I'm hearing.
SARAH: Yeah, but I don't know what other color I would pick.
KAYLA: Hmm
SARAH: I need to think about this more.
KAYLA: Okay, secondary poll, what color would your mermaid tail be?
SARAH: Tertiary poll: what color should my mermaid tail be?
KAYLA: Yeah, please…
SARAH: I'm Sarah, for those of you who don't know us by voice. I'm very pale.
KAYLA: And Weasel, I know you're not photoshopping all that much anymore, I think, but Weasel, if you find a spare moment, I know you're busy
SARAH: Weasel is busy
KAYLA: But a photoshop of us as mermaids would go down real smooth right now.
SARAH: Would be really great. Anyway, great. Those are our polls. You can… Kayla, what is your beef and your juice for this week?
KAYLA: My beef is that I'm on my period and it sucks. And my periods in the last, like, two years maybe, I've been getting a lot of like hip flexor cramps, which isn't fun. And I googled that…
SARAH: Got to stretch those bad boys.
KAYLA: And the internet… see, the problem with stretching it is it makes it worse.
SARAH: Oh
KAYLA: And the internet said endometriosis and I said…
SARAH: Oh, cool
KAYLA: I don't want to look at that right now, and I closed the tab, and I said, that's none of my business, yeah
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So that has been cool.
SARAH: Remarkable.
KAYLA: Thank you.
SARAH: I was the Virgin Mary for a week, so
KAYLA: Same, yeah. Sarah and I were both late, so
SARAH: And I… but that's the thing. That's the thing about being a gold star ace.
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: When your period is significantly late, you're like…
KAYLA: You’re the virgin Mary.
SARAH: I guess the only conclusion is that I'm the virgin Mary
KAYLA: Jesus Christ is coming once again.
SARAH: Once again, the evangelicals would hate me. It wouldn't go well.
KAYLA: Yeah, my juice is the Britt Smith version of ‘Karma is a Bitch.’ It is the superior version, and because it exists, I can now add the song to my stuck-in-my-head playlist without adding the bad version of it.
SARAH: Mm, without…
KAYLA: My other juice is… Yeah, my other juice is Chappell Roan, what a slay!
SARAH: That's one of my juices. Is the song ‘Good Luck Babe’ by Chappell Roan has been living rent-free in my mind for days. It's like crack. I don't know how to explain it
KAYLA: Chappell Roan's just whole discography plus Sabrina Carpenter's ‘Espresso’ have just been looping. I feel like a hamster is going in there.
SARAH: I listened to Chappell Roan's most recent album, and there are a couple of songs I like, but it's not… The full total vibe is not totally my thing
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But the songs that I do like are like drugs to me.
KAYLA: For me, it is ‘Midwest Princess’ is a no-skip album, which for me is extremely rare.
SARAH: Yeah, wow
KAYLA: But I love every single one of them.
SARAH: I love that for you.
KAYLA: Thank you
SARAH: I love ‘Good Luck.’ Also, casual fucking
KAYLA: My favorite is ‘My Kink is Karma’ because I think it's very me.
SARAH: I don't remember that one super strongly, but I also don't… hey, maybe I'll listen to it again, and I'll let you know what my thoughts are.
KAYLA: Okay, thank you.
SARAH: That's my one juice. My other juice is porn writer extraordinaire Dalton King picking up my Adderall for me, and he's supposedly bringing it to me in the next 30 minutes.
KAYLA: Oh my God, slay. Oh, I wish it was sooner. I wish he would come say hello, Dalton King
SARAH: He said like between 9 and 9:30 after he goes to the gym
KAYLA: My favorite award-winning…
SARAH: Favorite, retired porn writer
KAYLA: Retired… award-winning retired porn writer Dalton King
SARAH: Award nominated
KAYLA: I thought he won. I thought he won.
SARAH: Um, my beef is that… Kayla's internet is cutting out. My other beef is being so sleepy at work when I can't eat. I had to have a Coca-Cola at work today, and I didn't want to have it because canned coke is the most inferior type of coke. Canned cherry coke is the most superior type of cherry coke, but canned coke is the worst of the cokes, and I didn't want to have it, but I had to because I was literally falling asleep at my desk. You can tell us about your beef…
KAYLA: You’re so brave
SARAH: Your juice, your thoughts on Chappell Roan on our social media.
KAYLA: Your mermaid tail color
SARAH: Yes, yes, please. Um, and if anyone is going to say like rainbow, here's the thing, I think genetically rainbow is really rare and so...
KAYLA: Okay, you can't say that. It's a mermaid, Sarah. You can't just invent mermaid genetics.
SARAH: But I feel like so many people are going to be like, “I want rainbow because I want to be rainbow” but like I feel like that's like having purple eyes, you know?
KAYLA: I feel like you're being the girl in the pool who's like, “we can't all have the same mermaid tail color” which is the girl I was as a child. I will say that
SARAH: If everyone has a rainbow tail, it's not cool anymore.
KAYLA: But what about... but I have like a holographic tail, so is that allowed?
SARAH: That's okay because there are different colors of holographic tails.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: You're a little bit special, it's like a recessive trait.
KAYLA: Okay, thank you. Thank you.
SARAH: You're welcome. Anyway…
KAYLA: She's a mermaid geneticist, everyone.
SARAH: You know me, I got those Punnett squares going. All right, you can tell us about your beef, your juice, your mermaid tail thoughts on our social media @SoundsFakePod. We also have a Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod. Our $5 patrons who we are promoting this week are Morgan Impink, Philip Rueker, Phoenix Eliot, Rebekah and Rachel.
[00:50:00]
SARAH: I said that in the wrong order, but I said all of them, so great.
KAYLA: Thank you.
SARAH: Our $10 patrons who we are promoting this week are Barefoot Backpacker who would like to promote the YouTube channel rtwbarefoot, SongOStorm who would like to promote a healthy work-life balance, never matter and Val who would like to promote mermaid tails. And our other… and also, we're going to keep going, Alyson who would like to promote Arden Gray by Ray Stoeve and Ani who would like to promote the importance of being kind to yourself and others even if they have a basic-ass mermaid tail color. Our other $10 patrons are Arcnes, Benjamin Ybarra, Celina Dobson. Also, I feel like everyone has a blue tail.
KAYLA: I don't agree with that, I feel like I rarely hear that.
SARAH: I don't know
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: Celina Dobson, David Harris, Derick & Carissa, Elle Bitter, My aunt Jeannie, Kayla’s dad, Maff, Martin Chiesl, Parker, Purple Hayes. Our $15 patrons are Ace who would like to promote the writer Crystal Scherer, Andrew Hillum who would like to promote the Invisible Spectrum Podcast, Dia Chappell who would like to promote Twitch.tv/MelodyDia, A Twitch Tadi is a winter drink.
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: Hector Murillo who would like to promote friends that are supportive, constructive, and help you grow as a better person. Nathaniel White who would like to promote NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com, Kayla’s Aunt Nina Maggart who would like to promote katemaggartart.com and Schnell who would like to promote accepting that everyone is different and that's awesome. Our $20 patrons are Dragonfly and my mom who would like to promote mermaid punnett squares. Thanks for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your mer-cows.
SARAH: Oh. Now, if a cow was a mermaid, would it be this way or this way?
KAYLA: Would it be this way or this way? I'm just imagining… so, imagining it this way, right? And so, then the udders are like on the tail
SARAH: Uh-huh.
KAYLA: So
SARAH: What if it's like a centaur?
KAYLA: Where would the tail be?
SARAH: The setup is like a centaur where like it's mostly tail and then like cow head.
KAYLA: It's not how centaurs are.
SARAH: I got to go.
KAYLA: It's not mostly horse and then… no, come back! Ew.
SARAH: Are we done?
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]
