Ep 300: Government Recognition of Asexuality feat. Ash McCullough

Hey what’s up hello! For this week’s very exciting 300th episode we’re chatting with Ash McCullough about their advocacy work with the Australian government.

Content Notice: Brief discussion of Roe v. Wade and abortion laws

Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/government-recognition-of-asexuality-feat-ash-mccullough   

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Transcript

[00:00:00]

SARAH: Hey, what's up, hello! Welcome to Sounds Fake but Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl. I'm Sarah, that's me. 

KAYLA: And a bi demisexual girl, that's me, Kayla. 

ASH: And me, Ash, an Australian aspec human and activist. 

SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand. 

KAYLA: On today's episode, adding the A to the LGBTQI plus

SARAH: Plus. 

KAYLA: Plus. 

ALL: Sounds Fake But Okay. 

SARAH: Welcome back to the pod. 

KAYLA: Hello. 

SARAH: Hello. How is everyone? It's a big day here on SFBO the pod. 

KAYLA: Indeed. 

SARAH: Why is it a big day? 

KAYLA: It's our birthday. We are 300 years old. 

SARAH: We are 300 years old. We are three centuries old. We have had 300 episodes. 

KAYLA: Yes, very good. That's like, it's around 300 hours. 

SARAH: Yeah. 

KAYLA: Ish, definitely not exact. Pretty definitely around there. 

SARAH: Which is like a lot. 

KAYLA: It's a couple of days. 

SARAH: Why did we do that?

KAYLA: Who let us do that?

SARAH: This episode, which we'll get to in a moment, we have a guest on. So, slay. 

KAYLA: Slay. 

SARAH: It's going to be a delight for all involved. But we wanted to take a minute and just say thank you for being around for whether you have been around for one half of an episode, or whether you have been around for all 300. You're cool. And we like you. 

KAYLA: Yes, I would actually be very curious to know, like what episode had been published when people first started listening. Like, not necessarily that was the first episode they listened to. But you know, like what number we were at when they jumped on board. 

SARAH: Yeah. And I know all of you will remember that in great detail. 

KAYLA: Yeah, I definitely assume so that you would have that specifically noted. 

SARAH: But we just wanted to say, thanks. You're cool. We didn't have like anything specific planned for this episode, because we don't have ideas or thoughts or opinions or brain cells. 

KAYLA: Yeah, our shared brain cell that is somewhere in the middle of the United States has been a little busy lately. 

SARAH: It got lost in the mail. 

KAYLA: Yeah. 

SARAH: Last I heard it was like in Kansas, but like, I don't… I'm not sure. 

KAYLA: Not sure. 

SARAH: Might be like stuck somewhere in Wichita. 

KAYLA: We may never know. 

SARAH: Yeah 

KAYLA: But we still appreciate you all the same. And we appreciate that you have stuck with us through many wild times, especially when things get a little chaotic, and we are not all the way here sometimes. 

SARAH: Hee hee, slay-full. All right. Well, that's all. Now it's time for episode time. Are you ready? 

KAYLA: Yeah. 

SARAH: Kayla, what are we talking about this week? 

KAYLA: This week, we're talking about policy. We're talking about the government. We're talking about our rights and passing bills on Capitol Hill. 

SARAH: Wow. But not our Capitol Hill. 

KAYLA: But not on our Capitol Hill, on a different one. Today, we have the lovely Ash on to talk about their amazing work in Australia with policy and bills and laws

SARAH: You're making it sound so boring. All right. Hi, Ash. 

ASH: Hey, how's it going? 

SARAH: It's going all right. Thank you so much for joining us. 

KAYLA: Welcome to the chaos. 

ASH: Oh, it's an absolute pleasure. 

SARAH: Kayla just made that sound so incredibly boring, but it is not that boring. So, why don't we start by having you just kind of introduce yourself and explain why the heck you're here. 

ASH: So, my name is Ash, and I'm here to talk about some advocacy work I did in my home state of Tasmania, which is a small island state off the bottom of Australia known for the Tassie Devil, which Taz, you might all know. So, last year, myself and a small group, well, one other aspec fellow, lobbied the government to officially include the A in the LGBTIQ plus acronym across all government departments, government bodies, which is the first time that has been done in Australia consistently. So, the federal government and state governments all sort of kind of just pepper in wherever on a department basis, policy by policy basis. 

SARAH: Depending on who is writing it, like just… 

ASH: Correct

SARAH: I'll do it this way. 

ASH: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Which is, I think, a lot of what happens in… across government organizations, anyone who's writing that, they're like, oh, I don't really know what is supposed to be written here. So, I'll just like put a few that I've heard. It seems like people are saying this these days, so I'll use that. Which is why I think it's really important that governments specifically set the standard and are consistent so that people know what the acronym looks like. They're seeing it uniform and that aspec folks get regular and consistent recognition. 

SARAH: Hell yeah. 

KAYLA: That's so exciting. I also read that Tasmania, which I did not realize was the island. I'm so sorry. I'm very bad at geography. It's exceptionally embarrassing. 

SARAH: Kayla has never known anything in her life. 

KAYLA: I haven't. But I read that it was the last Australian state to make gay marriage legal or to make being gay not illegal. Probably that one. 

ASH: Yeah, to decriminalize homosexuality it was the last Australian state, which is very shameful. Since then, we've done some fantastic work in gender recognition. We're leading sort of the country, if not the world, in gender recognition. But it has certainly been, yeah, a bit of a shady past for Tasmania in the LGBTIQA plus space. 

SARAH: But you're moving past it. You're making strides. 

ASH: Yes

KAYLA: I was very impressed that that was in the history. But then I think even in the Western world, it feels like this is getting the A added to that acronym and recognized by government bodies is quite rare in the Western world at least… 

SARAH: I would say in any world 

KAYLA: Or I assume worldwide. 

SARAH: Yeah 

KAYLA: I mean, I just haven't done research outside of America, really. So, I can't speak for certain. 

SARAH: Yeah. US-centric podcast. 

KAYLA: Sorry. Did you do any research on that? 

SARAH: No. 

KAYLA: Yeah. Anyway, I just thought that was really interesting to see how far the state has come. I mean, what, like only a couple of decades? It's pretty impressive. 

ASH: Yeah, absolutely. I think it was late 90s and I certainly should know a more specific date than that. I apologize to all my fellow Tassie activists out there, but it was certainly late 90s that homosexuality was decriminalized. So, yeah, in the space of two and a half decades, really ran ahead and started leading the pack. 

KAYLA: I love that. 

SARAH: 1997. 

KAYLA: Oh

SARAH: Birth year. 

KAYLA: Yeah, that really isn't, that's 26 years. What got you into this work? Like, how did you get to the point where you're like, okay, I'm going to start working with other people and we're going to go to the government and say, “hey, this needs to be a thing.”

ASH: Basically, I had never heard of the aspec identities, asexuality or aromanticism, until I was like 27 years old. And I was doing some research at Uni at the time for a research project I was doing. And that sort of gave me a little bit of exposure and I was just like, whoa, I’ve never heard of this. And like, sort of, you know, my own little things started to pop up. It was like squash that shit down. But then it sort of, as time went on and I sort of explored my own identity, I realized that it's hard. It was really… it was a lot harder for me than it needed to be because I'd never even heard of it before. And so, you know, I think a lot of aspec folks go through a period, it's like, what's wrong with me? I'm I wrong, there's something that's broken in me. And of course, if you haven't heard that there's other people like you, that's so much harder and so much more difficult to come through. And so, that's what really motivated me to start the advocacy and really focus on visibility so that other aspec folks out there who may not be as aware that there is a community out there or may not even identify yet, because they don't know it exists, know that they're not alone and know that it's okay. There's nothing wrong with them and that society will accept them as well. 

SARAH: Yeah. And you've kind of hit on this a little bit, but I just kind of want to hit it a little harder. Why in your mind is doing this via like legislation, like in government spaces so important? Because someone could certainly argue that, and Kayla, I did Google this, Tasmania has like a little over 500,000 people. I can Google. 

KAYLA: Oh, okay 

SARAH: I live in Los Angeles and like, you could find that many people in a 10-mile radius from me. So, like some, like a cynic could be like, well, why does it matter? 

[00:10:00]

SARAH: It's only however many people. Like, why do you feel that like adding a single letter to official paperwork in one state in Australia, like, why does that matter in your mind? 

ASH: I think that, well, first and foremost, it's because it's where I live. So, that's what matters to me. 

SARAH: Yeah. That's a good fucking reason. 

KAYLA: That’s an excellent reason 

SARAH: That's a good fucking reason. 

ASH: But I think that, you know, we had this opportunity and the environment seemed to be right for us to make this change. And that's great. And I'm no lawyer, but I know that like precedence is really fucking important. So, if a small state on the bottom of Australia can get this change and then, you know, states in the US or countries in Europe can look and say, look, no one else in the US has done it. No one else in Europe has done it. But there is this one place that has done it. The world has not ended. And it's a bit of a snowball effect from there. 

SARAH: Yeah, I think that snowball effect, that domino effect is so important. And also, like, again, I'm just thinking in a very aggressively American way, it would be a very American experience to be like, well, Australia is doing it. And like, it looks bad if we're not like, we had Stonewall and you're telling me that they have the A? Like, we have to beat them. 

KAYLA: It's a very, yeah, like American competitive vibe. 

SARAH: Yeah. And like, you know what, if that's what gets it done, okay. 

KAYLA: Sometimes you got to play their game, you know? 

ASH: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. 

KAYLA: I don’t know and it is so… just, I mean, kind of just going back to the beginning of why this is important in the first place, just to like really drive this home for people that maybe like have never even thought about what policy and legislation looks like for queer people. I don't know what exactly there is in Australia, but like here in America, we have like the Equality Act, which is like, you cannot, you are legally not allowed to be discriminated against based on your race, your gender, your sexual orientation. That does not include asexuality or aromanticism here in America, except for in New York. And so, that leaves a lot of room for legal discrimination. And so, that is why things like this are so important, even just starting with adding the letter. So, there is government recognition of like this identity exists in the first place. So, there are those stepping stones to have things like the Equality Act. That is incredibly important. 

ASH: Absolutely. 

SARAH: And obviously you don't want to be in a situation where like you have to go to court because someone has discriminated against you. But, you know, even if that one letter is in the law, like as you talked about precedence, like it all matters so much in the long run and in changing the culture in the long run. 

ASH: Absolutely. And I think so we're in a very similar boat in Tasmania. We have the Anti-Discrimination Act. And very similarly, you're not allowed to be discriminated against based on sexuality, which a lot of people like, great, you know, covered. But if you look into the definitions exactly the same, it covers heterosexuality, homosexuality, bisexuality, asexuality and obviously aromanticism. Let's not complicate things by splitting things up. 

SARAH: Of course, not

ASH: So, yeah, it's very much the same thing. I mean, similarly, one thing that I've been thinking about a lot that is really important to me is our fair work standards say that if you can have… take compassionate leave, if an immediate family member has passed away or is very sick. And of course, that includes de facto partners, spouses, you know, if my good mate's parent falls really ill or passes away, I'm bloody taking time off work to support them if they don't have a partner or a de facto partner to do that. And I don't think it's unreasonable for me to be able to take leave from my work to do so. And as you say, a lot of employers and a lot of people, the argument is that, but no one is going to do that, you know, who would actually do that? What boss would say, no, you can't. But the fact is that if it's not in the law, it leaves it open for it to happen. And there will be employers out there who will be like, no, letter of the law, I can get away with this. So, I'm going to. 

SARAH: There's a lot of assholes out there. 

KAYLA: And unfortunately, at least in America, we have seen that there are some backward ass laws from literally hundreds of years ago that people were like, we don't need to get rid of that because that would never come back. And guess what? It did. 

SARAH: What is… is it Arizona where a law from like 18 something… 

KAYLA: Arizona 

SARAH: Is now like the law of the land about abortion?

KAYLA: Yeah. Yes. Arizona's abortion from before women could vote and before penicillin I believe

SARAH: Good 

KAYLA: Is when that law was done. 

SARAH: When did Arizona even become a state? 

KAYLA: So… it actually, I think, might have been before statehood. Now that I'm thinking about that, too. So, yeah, that's why… 

SARAH: I think it became a state in 1912. This law was from before then. 

KAYLA: Yeah. So, that's why, like people making that argument, it's like, okay, you can say that now, but like you don't know what the future holds. Like there are some nasty people that will do some shitty things, so 

SARAH: And even if there is a legal precedent based not off of the specific letter of the law, but in interpretation of the law. Again, I'm just thinking about how this relates to like where we are with abortion rights in the United States right now, where it's like, okay, we had Roe vs Wade, which, you know, it was the Supreme Court case that legalized abortion. But most states were like, okay, that's all we need. And then as soon as that's repealed, suddenly it's like, oh, shit, we don't have any legislation, we don't have the official documentation that continues to make this legal in a lot of places. So, it's like it's so important to have official documentation where it's just like, yes, the A is a part of that. So, if God forbid, you know, some precedent that benefits aspecs is repealed at some point, like we still have some protections 

ASH: Great. 

KAYLA: Yeah, absolutely. And it's just those baby steps are so important, right? Like it would be very difficult to go from where we are now to getting federal recognition of aspecs in the Equality Act like that has… there was a push for that in I think starting in 2020 and up till 2023 in America, there was the Inclusive Equality Act Coalition. I could be wrong. They could still be very active, but I personally haven't found anything about them being active since 2023. And they like really made a push for getting asexuality, aromanticism and pansexual, panromanticism into the United States Federal Equality Act. And it proved very difficult. And I think if there was more state level precedence first, it probably would have been a lot easier for them because they did cite the New York law when they were doing things. But if they had been able to cite more states doing it, you know, I'm sure they would have had a much easier time. 

SARAH: Yeah. That makes me wonder as well, Ash, what was the process like for you? Like, what hurdles did you face? Was there any red tape that like made you lose your mind? Like, how did that look for getting that into the government, into the law? 

ASH: Yeah, so we have what's called LGBTIQ, now A plus, reference groups. Each department or each of the major departments of the government will have that reference group. And that's public servants. It's not the politicians themselves. It's the leaders of each of those departments or their representatives come together to talk about it. And so, we approached the whole of government LGBTIQA plus reference group with our proposal. And we put quite a bit of work into pulling together like a discussion paper about it that pulled together some sort of facts, some of our lived experience as well. And that process took probably about six months just coming back and really refining that paper. So, we all know that bureaucrats don't love a lot of words. So, we were trying to get as much punch into the words that we had there. And after we'd sort of sent that off to the reference group that invited us to come along to speak to it, it was really just lobbying the members of that group. And once again, just making sure our lived experience shone through so that they had that connection and they could see that they weren't just voting on, you know, some words in a paper, they were voting on real human beings. So, that was probably the crux of it. And then just anxiously waiting to see what the result was. Fortunately, we were really lucky that it was approved first time round. We didn't have to do any further sort of lobbying or anything like that. And from there, they approached the minister and the minister signed off on it and we were done for that bit of advocacy work. The fight never ends. 

SARAH: For that one thing in Tasmania. 

ASH: Yes. And aspec people everywhere rejoiced. 

SARAH: Yep. They all cheered. 

KAYLA: Yes. We went to the streets and we had a big parade. No, but there was… like it made the news. Like you sent us an ABC article about it. Like I was researching it. It was, you know, people seemed very excited about it as they should have been. 

SARAH: As it should. Yeah. 

ASH: Yeah. It was, it was really well picked up by the media and received nationwide. I've got friends around Australia and they're all sending me messages saying that's a really great article. And I was like, thank you. 

[00:20:00]

KAYLA: That’s so sweet

ASH: It was lovely. 

SARAH: Yeah. I… you may not know the answer to this, but I'm kind of curious. So, before the A got added, the term used was LGBTIQ plus. Is that right? Or is that just kind of like the generally, like, was that officially the term that was used or was that just kind of like. 

ASH: There was no official term as far as I understand it. 

SARAH: Got it, okay

ASH: It was people just like going rogue and writing whatever, whatever sort of came into the head. 

SARAH: Right, because I found it interesting. First of all, I find it interesting that like in the United States, we put the Q before the I and in Tasmania, y'all said, no, I first then Q. 

KAYLA: Well, there… I think that's like that in England too where they will do GL instead of LG. 

SARAH: Yeah. 

KAYLA: Letters, man. 

SARAH: Letters. In the UK, they said we got to put men first. 

KAYLA: I mean. 

SARAH: I mean, but women also use the term so I guess they’ll figure it out

KAYLA: No comment. 

SARAH: Anyway. I just… I found it interesting that even if it wasn't the official like standard, if that was kind of the term that was often used, that it included the I and not the A because I was reading something recently where the umbrella acronym that they used was LGBTQI+. And it made me so irrationally angry because I was like, if you're willing to include the I, you've got to be willing to include the A like just like from a stance perspective, it seems like you would be cool with both of them. So, you know, it has got to be a lack of education, right? Or like, I hope because otherwise it's just being exclusionary. And so, I always find it very interesting because often you see like LGBTQ+, or LGBTQIA+. And there are fewer instances where it's without the I but with the A or the opposite. So, it's just… it's always interesting to me to see like what kind of makes it into the zeitgeist of what the “standard” is when there is no official standard. 

ASH: Yeah. I think that… I mean, you're right. It was… I'm not sure what you said before, but it was certainly QI+, rather than IQ+. And so, that the reason why it's now IQA+, is because somewhere along the line I had sort of become generally accepted as part of the acronym and that was chronologically after the Q. So, it's now QIA+. And I think it's certainly about, once again, visibility, because I mean, I can only speak from my own experience, but I'd never even heard of it before. So, like, I think that potentially the states, there's a little bit more visibility for the aspec community than down here was. So, there wasn't a lot of push or even understanding that the aspec community existed when the I was introduced. And there was a sort of concerted advocacy campaign, once again, from the Intersex community, which is fantastic too, for that inclusion that we, as the aspec community, just didn't have that visibility at that time. 

SARAH: Yeah. Even with these countries like Australia and the United States that are often seen as very similar socially, it's always interesting to see the little cultural differences. I know, I have found out that in Korea, Korea is very conservative. And so, like same-sex marriage and same-sex relationships are still pretty taboo there. But trans people are compared to queer people... I'm referring to queer people as people who are in queer relationships and trans people as gender nonconforming, just for the purposes of saying this. But they're more accepting of trans people than just of queer people. And that's just the way that the culture has evolved. And so, it's always interesting to see, oh, so intersex people made their strides sooner in Australia and then maybe a little bit later elsewhere. And it's just, I don't know that there's anything to gather from it, but it's interesting to me. 

KAYLA: It would make me really interested to talk to, and I know we've talked about this, Sarah, having intersex folks on the podcast, because that's not really a topic we've covered before. But it would make me very interested to talk to an intersex advocate about what that process has looked like of advocacy, both in the medical sphere and in government. I know I did… I don't know if you were there with me for this panel, Sarah, but I did a panel for, I think, the Seattle government? Like several years ago.

SARAH: I don’t know, I don’t recall, I don’t know 

KAYLA: But it was during Pride Month and they were having a panel of advocates from different areas just to talk about different things that the government employees could learn about things, which was great. But there was an intersex advocate there. And I was like, you really have your shit together. I was like, you know a lot of shit. 

SARAH: You're cool and prepared. 

KAYLA: Yeah. I was like… 

SARAH: You're really cool. And I am a mess. 

KAYLA: Yeah. And so, I was like, I can't generalize that all of the intersex community is as put together as you, but I kind of just am. And I'm like, yeah, of course you guys are in the acronym. You guys have your shit together. You guys are doing a great job. Can you hold a course for aspec so we can learn how to get our act together? I don't know. 

SARAH: Truly. Also, fun fact, in Canada, the standard government term is 2SLGBTQIA+. 

KAYLA: Oh, yes

SARAH: Because they're like, hey, maybe since we have such a horrible, horrible history with our First Nations communities, maybe we should prioritize them maybe sometimes. 

KAYLA: Imagine. 

SARAH: Which, good for them, because that's something that the US is not really doing. 

KAYLA: I don't even know how to find what the term is. So, I was just like, I live in Massachusetts, so I was just looking up Massachusetts LGBT commissions and stuff. And it feels like, how am I even supposed to know? Here's a question. Here's a real question. Ash, if someone wanted to do what you did in their own state or their own country, like how did they even go about looking at their government and saying like, what are they doing currently? Understanding that this is likely different for every country. So, I actually don't know how you're supposed to answer that. So, sorry. 

ASH: We just did a lot of Googling. I think that that's pretty accessible across developed countries, at least. Just Googling, looking at their websites, looking what it is they're using as an acronym gives you a pretty good sort of tone test as to what's happening in the inner workings. And really, for me, at least, that's what it's about anyway. It's about what's out there to the world. What are they saying is included in the queer rainbow. That's what's of high importance. 

KAYLA: Yeah, that makes sense. 

ASH: And you don't have to know anything about policy like me. 

KAYLA: I love that. 

SARAH: Bro, I just looked up what it is in California, and they have the California Legislative LGBTQ Caucus. There's not even a plus. 

KAYLA: Caucus

SARAH: In some of their language, they refer to the plus, but the name of the group doesn't even have a plus. What the fuck?

KAYLA: Okay, well get this, because over here, it's just the Massachusetts Gay and Lesbian Political Caucus. Brother, what is that about? 

SARAH: Oh, God 

ASH: Y'all got some work to do. 

KAYLA: And they're saying it's like the oldest. It's the oldest and most... Oh, get this, everyone. It's the oldest and most experienced LGBT political and advocacy organization in Massachusetts. 

SARAH: Well, how could it be? Because there is no B&T. 

KAYLA: Excellent question. But I guess they led the lobby for marriage equality in Massachusetts. That's good for them, I guess. Anyway.

SARAH: Michigan has an LGBTQ plus commission, but it's new. Anyway. 

KAYLA: This could be... We can do our... 

SARAH: Wherever you live, do some googling. Just look up... 

KAYLA: Everyone, pause. Okay, but we have a commission on LGBTQ youth. Get it together. Anyway. 

SARAH: Place you live... I just looked up place government queer, just to see what would come up. 

KAYLA: How come there's a commission for the LGBTQ youth, but not for me? 

SARAH: Not the olds? 

KAYLA: 26-year-old woman. 

SARAH: You can go ahead and start that yourself. All right, anyway. 

KAYLA: For only 26-year-old women. Anyway. Oh, yes. So, you mentioned that you... This was a success for this campaign, this advocacy that you did. Are there other things that you are looking towards getting involved in, that you're currently involved in, that are in this same vein? Or just anything, really. 

ASH: Yeah, so we're currently working on doing some research with aspec folks in Tasmania. I say we, using the royal we, I've sort of had to step back from that for the time being, because life has been life for me pretty hard. But yeah, that's certainly something that's happening that's on the cards. We're looking forward for opportunities to open the conversation about the Anti-Discrimination Act as well. And mental health is another huge focus for us. We have a… what's called, I think it's called Rethink Mental Health, or something like that. 

[00:30:00]

ASH: And that's, once again, got a priority area for LGBTIQ+ folks. But it doesn't include aspec folks at this stage, and hasn't included research about the mental health needs of aspec folks. So, they're sort of the areas that needs looking at in our state. And once again, I am pretty state-based, just because that I don't want to blow my little mind too much. So, I just make the changes in my own little backyard, and maybe one day we can all unite and change the world. 

SARAH: It's a good place to start, yeah. Out of curiosity, so obviously it's important to have all of these specific identities named in legislation and on paper and all the stuff. Do you like having a term that's just a lot of letters? Or do you feel like that's overwhelming? Do you feel like we should be seeking out a better, more encompassing term that's less like alphabet soup? Or do you like what we have? 

ASH: That's a really fantastic and important question. I… both, is the answer to that question. So, I think that, I hope that the day soon will come where we can use a term like queer or another term that's maybe not quite so charged for some people, doesn't have historical meaning. And that will be okay and dandy. I don't think we're there yet. I think that to use a term that is just one big umbrella term at this stage doesn't give identities like the aspec identities the visibility they need. I think that we need the A as part of the acronym so people like, oh what does A mean? And that conversation can be started. So, it can be cumbersome, and I recognize that, but the way I sort of explain it is that, you know, the LGBTIQA+, they're all umbrellas. Each letter is an umbrella. And so, if you don't sort of fit into one of those umbrellas, then you're left out in the rain. 

KAYLA: Oh, I have never thought, I always… like, we always call it the aspec umbrella, but I've like literally never thought about the implication of like when you're not under the umbrella. I'm getting like sad about it. I'm like, oh, they're in the rain. I'm getting emo about it. 

SARAH: Get them out of the rain. 

KAYLA: Get them out

ASH: Don't leave people in the rain. It’s sad in the rain. 

SARAH: There's a song that someone left the cake out in the rain. 

KAYLA: Oh, I'm aware of that song. 

SARAH: No, but aspecs, when we're not under the umbrella, we are the cake. 

ASH: The cake is out in the rain. 

KAYLA: Wow. Theme song. Anyway, I also think, I agree, like it is very cumbersome, but I think you're right, having those letters increases visibility. And also, from like a government standpoint, I think currently the issue with a lot of laws, especially like anti-discriminatory laws is they will say no discrimination based on sexual orientation. And then you have to ask like, okay, what do you mean by that specifically? Do you consider asexuality a sexual orientation? Like, are we actually protected? But when you add the letter in there, it's like, okay, they said it for real though. So, like we're officially protected. And I think… 

ASH: No take backsies. 

KAYLA: No take backsies. Yeah. So, it's like when, if you were to switch to a word like queer, then you could invite people to say like, well, I meant queer in this way, unless we were able to get a specific definition of queer also in government policy, which like, you know, like you said, I think that's a very far away step from right now. 

SARAH: Yeah. I was recently watching an episode of Abbott Elementary where a student gets in trouble for smoking like a cigarette. 

KAYLA: Oh. 

SARAH: And they check like the official rules of the school and they list, you can't vape, you can't skateboard, you can't do… like, they listed all sorts of things you couldn't do, but smoking cigarettes was actually not mentioned. And they were like, how come this like fundamental thing, like it was, I guess it was seen as like, so assumed that they didn't actually codify it. And so, they were like, I guess we have to codify this now. And like, I think this is a really similar situation where it's like, even if it seems self-explanatory, even if to you, you're like, oh, of course, like people will try, like assholes will try and find loopholes. And, you know, so it's so important to just codify everything. That's what the law is for. The law is for just writing shit down. They love to do it. 

KAYLA: They love to be writing. 

ASH: At the university I studied that the exam rules explicitly stated that you're not allowed to have rats in the exam room. 

KAYLA: Oh

ASH: And that was a hundred percent because there was no rule that you're not allowed to have rats in the exam room. And someone walked up to their exam with a rat 

KAYLA: I do always love, there's like, you can Google like weirdest American laws and they'll be like, you're not allowed to take your alligator for a walk on a Sunday. And it's like, well, certainly some Jeremy back in the day was like, you know what I'm going to do? And they were like, well…

SARAH: Jeremy in Orlando. 

KAYLA: Yeah. Well, yes. Or like a Florida man did something. 

SARAH: Exactly. 

KAYLA: Yeah. But it's also, those are similar things where there are certain laws that are like a woman in this state has to get her husband's permission to cut her hair. And no one has gotten rid of those laws because everyone is like, well, no husband is going to do that. 

SARAH: No one enforces them until someone does. 

KAYLA: Until someone does. Yeah. Wild. 

SARAH: Kayla, do you have anything else you want to talk about on this thing? Because I have another thing I want to talk about that's a little bit more of a pivot. 

KAYLA: It depends on what the pivot is. I don’t know

SARAH: Great. Okay. So, in the ABC article that I was reading about you, Ash, it talks about standup comedy and you doing standup comedy. I just personally, I'm curious to hear about your experience in that space because that kind of representation in media and I mean like standup is often political because everything is political in the end, but like you're talking about these places that are not necessarily political or activist in nature. Like where people just go to have fun and go to have a laugh. And so, it's so important to like have that casual representation there. So, like, I'm just curious about your experience in that funky little space. 

ASH: Yeah, totally. It has been a fun experience. I think it's… I try to bring my aspec-ness into the space as much as possible. I find it kind of like challenging to be perfectly honest because like, if there's one thing that's fucking hilarious, it's like failed sex stories.

SARAH: Yeah.

ASH: And I don't have that to fall back on. I'm just like, what am I supposed to talk about? No, but I do try and bring the aspec-ness into it because I do think that it's important to shine a light on different groups, but also, it's just, I mean, comedy is just a lot of fun. I enjoy like noticing things in my own little way that might be different to the way other things, other people notice things, or it might be exactly the same as other people notice things. And they're like, “Oh yeah, I've done that. I understand that.” And it's a really important way to connect with other human beings. And I think that that's the more we can do that with our own experiences, whatever they are, then the more acceptance and diversity is going to shine through and is going to really take hold. So, yeah, whatever you do, whether it's activism, comedy, whether it's, I don't know, coding, I'm sure you can bring your aspec lens to coding. 

SARAH: There's a way. There's always a way. 

ASH: Yeah. Just like Trojan aspec. 

KAYLA: It's so interesting. You talk about it being a challenge, not being able to fall back on funny sex stories, because I think something Sarah and I often think about, and Sarah especially, is the need for people to shove romance. Why are you making that face at me? 

SARAH: I just didn't know where you were going with that. I was like, what? 

KAYLA: What do you mean? Why do you not know what I'm about to say? I don't understand. I don't understand. You should just know. 

SARAH: Okay, go. 

KAYLA: Anyway, of people just shoving romance into stories that they're like, “Oh, it's getting boring. We need to punch it up, throw a romance in there.” And I think that's something that definitely exists in comedy and standup as well. Of like, there are some very easy things you can fall back on, which is also why people get in trouble when they're like, “Oh, I'm just going to fall back on a joke about race.” And then it's like, well, what if we tried a little bit harder at our jobs and we thought a little bit harder about making funny jokes and see if we cannot fall back on things. 

SARAH: Have you considered punching in a different direction? 

KAYLA: Yeah 

SARAH: Maybe up

KAYLA: Up

SARAH: Not down.

KAYLA: So, it is such a unique challenge to not have those things to fall back on. But I also think that just leave so much more room for creativity and doing things that other people aren't doing because it's like, okay, no, like I'm not going to take the easy route of like, this is what everyone else is doing. I think that's lovely. 

ASH: Absolutely. I think comedy is going through a real moment right now. And, you know, there's lots of different things that play into that. From my home perspective, I like to give credit to Hannah Gadsby. I'm sure that you're aware of their fantastic Netflix special. And I think that amongst, you know, the many other cultural things that are happening at the moment have really shaken up what people understand to be comedy and has really opened the way for different perspectives to be seen and to be heard. 

[00:40:00]

ASH: So, it's not just the old trope about, you know, oh the missus is on my back again. All of those sorts of old tropes that are easy and they're funny because they're not stressful to the spectator, to the person watching. They're like, I know what's happening here. I can laugh along. And it's not causing me stress. Whereas now we're in a moment where that tension is really being used to create different forms of art and different narratives, which is great for comedies to branch out, but it's also great for different voices to come through in the space. 

SARAH: Yeah. 

KAYLA: Yeah. I love that. 

SARAH: Do you ever find that there's something to do with your aspec/queer experience more broadly that you want to talk about in standup, but you don't know how to talk about it in a way that is appealing and funny to a general audience? Because there are absolutely things within the aspec community that we find funny, that you can just say, here's this thing and people will be like, that's fucking hilarious. But, you know, to translate it for an audience who's not in the in-group, is that something that you ever struggle with or is that just part of the experience? I know you said you don't like to focus on it too much, but just curious. 

ASH: Yeah. It's a bit of a fun challenge. It certainly is a struggle sometimes. Even just saying, you know, I don't have sex and people are like, oh, you poor thing. And it's like, no, no, it's okay. It's okay. Everybody breathe. But you can also sort of make jokes out of that. It's okay. I'm okay. Everyone is going to be okay. I just don't have sex. So, yeah, it does add a bit of fun playing around and like, once again, working with that tension that other people and other people's assumptions and being like, “nah, mate, you're right. It's okay. You know, this is me. I'm a bit different. Let's have fun.”

SARAH: Yeah. I saw a post the other day that said, I haven't lost my virginity because I never lose. And I was like, real. 

KAYLA: So, true. It reminds me of like, I'll be talking to about Sarah to someone that's like, never met her. Like maybe someone I'm friends with out here and they've never met her or whatever. And I'll be like, oh yeah, Sarah is never going to get married. And they're like, oh my God, why would you say that about your friend? And I'm like, no, like that's just a fact about her is that like, most likely she's just never going to get married. And it is, I could see how that could play really well into like just the shock factor of a standup thing of like, but it's fine. 

SARAH: Yeah. And also, just even to have, you know, comedians in the space, especially like in local spaces, like in, you don't have to be John Mulaney. It's really cool to see people just like in your community who have these identities and just like, even if they're not always talking about them to just know that they exist. Like I remember once I was at a standup show to see my friend and one of the comics talked about being demi. And she was like, “hey, does anyone in the crowd know what demisexuality is?” and me…

KAYLA: And you were like, “what?” 

SARAH: Well, me and my friend who I was with, who's, um, a little braver than me about just like general whooping in that situation, we were like, “actually, yes, we do know what demisexuality is.” And she was really excited by that. And we were like, “oh my God, that's so cool.” And to be honest, it was not the best set in the world, but I remember… 

KAYLA: Tea 

SARAH: And like, aside from my friend who I specifically went to see that night, like, I don't remember anything about any of the other comics or the sets like that stood out to me. And so, like seeing yourself in some way in someone, whether you already identify with the community or not, is so important. And like, there could have been someone in that room who was like, yeah, that's not the funniest that I've ever heard. But what is this thing about demisexuality? Because that seems a little bit like me, you know, let aspecs, let queer folks, let us all make mediocre content sometimes, straight people do it all the time. 

KAYLA: Yeah, like this. Let us have our mediocre podcast, please

SARAH: Come on, please. Anyway, that's all I wanted to say on that topic. I will say for anyone listening, if you are looking for people who do comedy in an aspec way, and you don't know who Eliott Simpson is, get on that. We had Elliot on our podcast ages ago, 500 years ago

KAYLA: Yeah, probably years. 

SARAH: They do a lot of stand up about aspec issues and also disability and autism. And… 

KAYLA: I think they did a whole tour a couple of years ago too. It was like a whole situation. 

SARAH: Yeah, absolutely delightful person. 

KAYLA: So

SARAH: So that's just a recommendation. 

KAYLA: Yeah, if you're like, “I would like aspec comedy,” there's one place you can find it. 

SARAH: Exactly 

KAYLA: I'm sure there's many others like Ash. 

SARAH: My final question, pivoting back to legislation, is, do you have any advice for people who want to do what you've done where they live? Not specifically like, here's how you reach out to this person. 

KAYLA: Here's the email to email. 

SARAH: Right, because obviously it's different in every place. But like, do you have any advice for just the approach to take? 

ASH: Yeah, absolutely. So, the first thing I'd say is, if you're comfortable to do so, tell your story. So, you don't have to have had necessarily experience of sort of outright discrimination for your story to have impact. Pretty much everyone can relate to feeling not seen or not understood in some context or another. And it's those little sort of connections that are really important to get people sort of thinking about and understanding what the actual challenges faced by the community are. So, whatever your story is, it's really important for people to be able to hear that so that they can make those connections. Research is really important as well. People like numbers. So, if you're a researcher, do research with not on the aspec community, keep an eye out. If you're an aspec person, keep an eye out for research that you can get involved in. Because as people, we really like to have evidence and certainly governments like numbers to say there's an important number that we're trying to change by making this change. So, get involved in research. And the final thing is we're stronger together. You know, I think that the LGBTIQA+ community, we're all running the same race. Different communities are at different stages in that race, but it's all exactly the same race. And I… there's something, if there's one thing that makes me feel like big, big, big sad, it's when I see groups in the LGBTIQA+ community using the exact same slurs and sort of derogatory tropes, I guess, against other… that we used against them, against other groups. That's just a side note, not really relevant. But we are strong together and we can learn from people who are ahead of us in, in that journey. You know, we had a lot of help from a legendary gay rights activist down here in Tassie who has really pointed us in the direction of the right people to talk to and how to go about it. And we wouldn't have got there without that help. So, look to other people in the community who are allies who can help out. We don't have to do it on our own because we are a relatively small community. So, wherever we can recruit help from allies is important. 

SARAH: And you don't have to already have a big platform to do something like this. Like, I think sometimes people are like, well, I'm not an activist. I don't have sway in whatever community. And it's like, you don't have to, you just have to be able to speak to your own experience and, you know, you'll meet other people who are in a similar situation and, you know, the little guy can make some big strides. 

ASH: Absolutely. 

KAYLA: So, true. I'd also say for specifically our American listeners, just like looking at what has been done in other States. I know in the past two or three years, like ace-awareness week has gotten legal recognition in a lot of States. Like people have written to their governors and gotten that in. Like I said, like New York is the one state that has asexuality in their laws. So, I would say just like things are happening in a similar vein, just maybe not like the, you know, it's not the same as like putting the A in there or getting in the non-discrimination acts, but just like looking at where there is movement across the world and across the States to see, like we were talking about earlier, like the precedent. 

SARAH: Yeah. And there are so many different types of things and degrees of things that can be codified. And so, you might not be able to start out with like the biggest thing. Like if you're like, I… the first thing I want is for QPRs to be recognized by insurance companies. Maybe you need to have other steps before you get there. And sometimes that can feel like disheartening, like, dude, why are we doing all these baby steps? Like, why can't we just be treated like everyone else? But that's the process, baby. 

KAYLA: And even though like us just calling them baby steps, it doesn't make them any less important either. Like… 

SARAH: When babies take steps, that's very important. 

KAYLA: It's actually exceptionally important. I don't know if you knew that. 

SARAH: People make a big deal out of those first little steps. 

KAYLA: The rest of the steps is all kind of like, whatever. 

SARAH: Don't look down on your baby steps. Oh man. 

[00:50:00]

KAYLA: My mom doesn't care that I'm currently walking. I mean, I'm sure she does. If she really like stopped to think about it, she'd be like, good for her. 

SARAH: But she's not like going around telling her friends like, oh, Kayla took steps today. 

KAYLA: My 26-year-old daughter took some steps today. 

SARAH: It's all important. All right. Well, is there anything you would like to promote Ash, whether it's your own social media, your standup, your favorite color, anything? 

ASH: Uh, yes, you can find me on Facebook and Instagram. I'm @ash.slingshott. It's mostly my comedy stuff there. Um, yeah. Um, it's mostly like comedy stuff there, but there'll be a bit of activism stuff, a bit of all around stuff. Come and check it out. And there might be some special bonus content for the special surprise for international viewers coming up, which I'll cover more in my juice. 

SARAH: Not you preparing for things we don't prepare for. 

KAYLA: Imagine. 

SARAH: Delightful. All right. Kayla, what's our poll for this week? Do you know about what the aspec…

KAYLA: Anything? 

SARAH: Rights are and like what's codified where you live for aspecs? Like… 

KAYLA: Yeah, what are your aspec rights? 

SARAH: Know your rights, baby. And obviously not everyone who is listening is going to have the ability or the bandwidth to write up documents and lobby their government. But like somebody…

KAYLA: Good to know 

SARAH: Somebody has got to, somebody is going to, somebody is going to, somebody has got to. And it's also just like good to know what's going on in your community for your community. 

KAYLA: Yes. Even if you don't have the bandwidth to do anything about it, just knowing your rights is important and good. Even if you just look it up once and then you're like, I know this and here, and then I'm going to go on with the rest of my life.

SARAH: Yep. All right. 

KAYLA: That's fine. Well, you should still like vote and stuff, but like you don't have to like become a lobbyist. You know what I mean? Like you should still be politically active as much as possible. 

SARAH: We're not telling you to look this up and then once you know, never engage in politics ever again. 

KAYLA: Yeah. I'm just saying you don't have to like become the president about it is all. 

SARAH: In fact, maybe you shouldn't. 

KAYLA: Well…

SARAH: Maybe you should? I don't know. Don't should. 

KAYLA: Someone has got to do it, but also like… 

SARAH: Someone has got to do it

KAYLA: Are we sure it's, you know 

SARAH: Anyway, Kayla, what is your beef and your juice for this week? 

KAYLA: That's such a good question. My beef is I'm sore because my friend made me do a workout with her yesterday. And then today I went and did a yoga and it hurts, but my juice is a Theragun or whatever you call them. 

SARAH: That you bought with your…

KAYLA: Yeah. Okay. So, listen, yes, I had several hundred dollars of HSA money that I had to spend when I got laid off or else it was going to go away

SARAH: Tell the kids what HSA money is. 

KAYLA: It's a health savings account. So, it's basic…

SARAH: It's with your insurance. It's money that can only be spent on like health relief. 

KAYLA: Health, yes. And it's like pre-taxed money that comes out of your paycheck. So, it's like you save money because you don't have to pay tax on it. It's like adult shit. I don't know. But I got laid off and they were like, you have a week to spend 800 of your dollars. And like, they weren't even all my dollars because I hadn't been taxed for the whole year yet. So, like, kind of a lot of them weren't… it wasn't my money yet, but anyway, I spent it. So, I bought like a $400 Theragun, which is like the thing that… it's a gun, but it has like a little knob on the end and it like massages you or whatever. 

SARAH: Yeah 

KAYLA: And I have one and it has like seven different attachments. They all look like sex toys. It's so crazy. And I was really sore today and I used it and it immediately works. And I was like, “wow, that's crazy that this thing does exactly what it advertises to do.” And my other juice is pickle pizza. I was home recently and I went to a place that had pickle pizza and it was ranch and pickles and some cheese. And that was the whole pizza. And it was so good. 

SARAH: Wow. Okay. 

KAYLA: I love pickles. 

SARAH: I have… surprisingly, because we last podded only a couple of days ago. I have multiple juices and beefs. 

KAYLA: Oh, she has a lot of feelings 

SARAH: I'll try and be fast. My first juice is that I'm getting a free TV tomorrow. My second juice is it's an app called One Sec, like one second, not an ad, but I wish it were. I tried this thing ages ago, but the free version isn't as flexible. So, I didn't use it long. But then recently my mindless doom scrolling got out of control, especially when I was off my Adderall. So, I redownloaded it and tried the trial version or tried the trial of the paid version. And dear God, it is absolutely worth 20 bucks a year. Let me tell you what this is. Are you ready? 

KAYLA: This feels like an ad, respectfully. 

SARAH: Pay me, pay me. Okay. So, it's an app. You set it to trigger for literally any app on your phone. Basically, every time you open that app, it gives you an intervention and it's like, “Hey…” 

KAYLA: Are you sure? 

SARAH: “Do you really want to do this?” And it tells you how many times you've tried to open that app in the last 24 hours. 

KAYLA: Oh, that's horrifying. 

SARAH: And the paid version allows you more flexibility with the interventions and like how long they are. And like, it also allows you to do app switching. So, if you have to switch between apps quickly, it's not giving you an intervention every single time. But it also has a setting where every time you do the intervention and you're like, yes, I do want to go to this app. It asks you how long you want to stay on the app. And then after that amount of time, it gives you another intervention. And so, like, it makes you more aware of how much time you're spending on the app. Also, you can set a schedule. So, it like blocks apps entirely or only underneath the certain times. Again, not an ad. 

KAYLA: But it could be. 

SARAH: One Sec, one second. I will happily accept payment in you comping my yearly cost for the app. Thanks. 

KAYLA: Oh, that's pretty cheap. That's a pretty good ad rate. 

SARAH: That's really cheap ad. 

KAYLA: It's actually a great deal. 

SARAH: My beef is my fucking smoke alarms. They went off 10 times last night at 1am. 

KAYLA: Again? 

SARAH: Again, I had to remove them. So, I currently only have one smoke alarm in my house, which is… you're not supposed to. 

KAYLA: Yeah, that's all right. 

SARAH: But I think I've… I had to blow into them with a straw. I don't know. Also, my other beef is my electric bill keeps being high because I keep falling asleep with all my lights on and then not waking up 

KAYLA: Who could have seen this coming? Who could have seen it? 

SARAH: Anyway. That's all. You can tell us about your beef and your juice… 

KAYLA: No, ask Ash. Oh, my God. You're so rude. 

SARAH: I'm going to just lay here and die. Ash, what is your beef and your juice for this week? I'm sorry. 

ASH: Well, thank you so much for asking, Sarah. My beef is my brain and capitalism. I think I have some notes about both of these things. They could both do with some improvements, if not complete overhauls, and they're not really compatible with one another. So, that's my beef. 

KAYLA: Yeah, fair. 

ASH: Juice is... Okay, juice, first juice, my sister got married last weekend and I was her person of honor. It was so much fun. I did a speech and I cried a lot. And yeah, that's done. Now, second juice. I rescued a baby platypus on Monday. 

KAYLA: What does that mean? Tell me everything. 

SARAH: Perry the platypus. 

ASH: So, it was a very stupid move. So, platypus is, for those of you who may not be aware, think like a little otter with a duck bill. Right? So, they're an Australian native animal. And I was just driving down the road and I saw this little thing like crawling on the side of the road right along the line. And I'm like, “what is that?” And so, I stopped and it was little baby platypus. It was like the size of my boot. And so, obviously the cute switch in my brain picked it up and carried it back to the water. They're water dwelling things. But what I had forgotten in that moment is that they have like really, really, really poisonous spurs in the nails. 

KAYLA: Oh, no. 

ASH: And so, they can spur you and get you good. This didn't happen to me. 

KAYLA: Australia is so scary. I'm so sorry. I'm sure people say this all the time and it's really annoying, but that's horrifying. 

ASH: A lot of my friends, I didn't get the hero status that I was hoping for from this rescue because people were like, “you're a fucking idiot, you could have been in hospital.” I'm like, “but I saved the platypus.” 

KAYLA: “But it was cute.” 

ASH: Anyway, so that's my juice. And if you go to my socials, you can see photos and a video of this little platypus because I'm good at marketing. 

KAYLA: Hell yes. 

SARAH: Oh, my God. That's so important to me. I love that juice. And you know what? Your friends weren't hyping you up, but I'm hyping you up because I wouldn't have known that fact. So, I would have just done it also. 

KAYLA: Thank you. I don't know that you would ever see a platypus, Sarah, unless you went to Australia

SARAH: No, I would be afraid to pick it up because I would be like, do platypuses imprint on you? Do platypuses… 

KAYLA: Now I just have a platypus. 

ASH: Well, it kind of like buried its little duck bill into my t-shirt. I'm like, are you mine now? And then I put it down and it sort of kept coming back to my feet. I think it thought my boots were like another platypus because the bill is like, I'm like, “you want to come home with me, don't you?” 

KAYLA: That's so cute. 

ASH: It is now free and I'll probably never see it again. Sarah, are you looking on my socials? Because it's not there yet. 

SARAH: Oh yeah. 

ASH: I'll put it up right after this. I promise. 

SARAH: Okay. 

KAYLA: I followed Ash on our podcast Instagram. So, I'll let you know, Sarah, if I see it when it happens. 

SARAH: Oh, this is so important. Okay. I can't wait. I can't wait. Thank you for sharing your beef and your juice. And I'm sorry that I initially forgot to ask you about it. 

[01:00:00]

KAYLA: We never would have known about the platypus. We never would have known. 

SARAH: Never would have known. All right. If you're listening, you can tell us about your beef, your juice, uh, your favorite facts about platypuses including Perry the Platypus on our social media @soundsfakepod. As Ash said, you can find them @ash.slingshott on the worldwide web to see platypus pics and enjoy their comedy. We also have a Patreon. Uh, Sarah from the future is going to give you that. Thanks Sarah from the past. That was so illuminating, but now it's time for everyone's favorite part of the podcast. 

KAYLA: Yep. 

SARAH: Patrons. 

KAYLA: What a great episode. Am I right? 

SARAH: What a delight. Truly remarkable. All right.  Our $2 patrons. Well, we have some new ones, which is why I'm talking about them. We have M. Thank you M. And we have Tin Tin. Thanks Tin Tin. 

KAYLA: What a slay. Isn't that like a little dog from France or something? It's like a cartoon. 

SARAH: You look that up while I keep going. 

KAYLA: There's a cartoon called Tin Tin that I think is French. I don't think it's a dog. 

SARAH: Our $5 patrons who we're putting this week are Scott Ainslie, Sophia P, Tall Darryl, Tom S, and Vishakh. Oh, my mouth is being loud. 

KAYLA: There is a dog. I don't think that's the dog. Maybe that's named Tin Tin, but… oh, I think it's maybe this boy. Anyway. 

SARAH: Great. That's a boy. Why is his hair in his head? 

KAYLA: He's French. I hope this helps. 

SARAH: Jesus Christ. All right. Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this week… 

KAYLA: I'm so sorry he's Belgian. That is completely my bad. 

SARAH: Okay, that's actually very rude. 

KAYLA: I learned about him in a French class. 

SARAH: All of the Belgians are going to come for you. 

KAYLA: I'm sorry, but I learned about him in French, so I thought he was French. 

SARAH: Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this week are Arcnes, who would like to promote The Trevor Project, Benjamin Ybarra, who would like to Tabletop games, Celina Dobson, who would like to promote the Critical Role Foundation, David Harris, who would like to promote the Cradle book series by Will White, and Derick & Carissa, who would like to promote supporting each other through the transitions we face. Our other $10 patrons are Elle Bitter, My Aunt Jeannie, Kayla's Dad, Maff, Martin Chiesl, Parker, Purple Hayes, Barefoot Backpacker, SongOStorm, Val, Alyson, and Ani. Our $15 patrons are Alice, who would… nope, that's not… where did I get Alice from? Our $15 patrons are Ace, who would like to promote the writer Crystal Scherer, Andrew Hillum, who would like to promote the Invisible Spectrum Podcast, Dia Chappell, who would like to promote Twitch.tv/MelodyDia. I feel like I'm so close to my mic, but in a good way. I'm listening and I'm like…

KAYLA: She's alert. 

SARAH: Wow, the quality of this sound is great when I'm actually the proper distance from my mic. 

KAYLA: Doing it, yeah. I love that for you. 

SARAH: What? Dia Chapp… Andrew Hillum, I said, right? 

KAYLA: Your guess is as good as mine. 

SARAH: Invisible Spectrum Podcast, Dia Chappell, who would like to promote Twitch.tv/MelodyDia, Hector Murillo, who would like to promote friends that are supportive, constructive and help you grow as a better person, Nathaniel White, who would like to promote, NathanielJWhitedesigns.com, Kayla’s Aunt Nina, who would like to promote katemaggartart.com, and Schnell, who would like to promote accepting that everyone is different and that's awesome. Our $20 patrons are Dragonfly and my mom, who would like to promote the fact that Belgium and France are not the same. 

KAYLA: I'm sorry. Blame my French teacher? She was really bad at her job. 

SARAH: I understand the mist stake. It would be like if I watched an Austrian show and I misremembered it as German. 

KAYLA: And if you had watched it in a German class, so you like only associated it with German things. 

SARAH: The same thing could happen with a Swiss show, a Swiss could be both French and German, but Swiss German sounds, it sounds different. 

KAYLA: Well, the thing about the cartoon is that I never listened to it because it was a cartoon and I just looked at it, so. 

SARAH: Wait, it wasn't sounds? 

KAYLA: Pretty sure Tin Tin is like a cartoony read, like a comic. 

SARAH: Oh, that's not a cartoon. That is a comic. 

KAYLA: It's like, but in a cartoon drawing style. 

SARAH: Yes, but when you say cartoon, I think of like, it doesn't matter. Bye. Go back to the past. 

KAYLA: Awful. Just awful. 

SARAH: Thanks, Sarah from the future. 

KAYLA: Thank you. 

SARAH: That was great. 

KAYLA: Thanks. 

SARAH: I just really threw myself off and I now don't remember how we end this podcast. 

KAYLA: Good byee

SARAH: Um, okay. Thanks for listening. Ash, thank you so much for joining us and for doing the work that you have done and continue to do. And you are cool. 

ASH: What an endorsement. I'm going to put that on my resume. 

SARAH: As you should. Yes, tune in... Happy 300th episode, kids. It's an important episode because, you know, it's important for the aspec community to do things. You know, we've spent 300 episodes just talking about things, but Ash is out here doing things… 

KAYLA: Doing them 

SARAH: And that's important. Tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears. 

KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your platypi. 

SARAH: Please, but just be careful. 

KAYLA: Yeah. With gloves, perhaps. 

ASH: They're actually platypuses. 

KAYLA: Oh, fuck. Shit. 

ASH: It's from the Latin, not the Greek. 

KAYLA: Fucking Latin.

[END OF TRANSCRIPT]