Sounds Fake But Okay
Sounds Fake But Okay
Ep 305: Boy Moms
Hey what's up hello! This week we talk about the illustrious boy moms. Can we fix them? No. But will we psychoanalyze them to figure out what the hell is going on in there? Absolutely.
Content Notice: emotional incest, rape culture
Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/boy-moms
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[00:00:00]
SARAH: Hey, what's up, hello! Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl. I'm Sarah, that's me.
KAYLA: And a… wow, I forgot. Isn't that crazy? And a bi demisexual girl, that's me, Kayla.
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.
KAYLA: On today's episode, Boy Moms.
BOTH: Sounds Fake But Okay
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod!
KAYLA: It has only been like three days.
SARAH: Yeah, I… listen, I wanted to give y'all an update on like, how much money has been raised for Alaa's fundraiser, but for us, it has been like three days because we podded on a Friday and now we're podding on a Monday.
KAYLA: I don't know that we've ever done such a thing before.
SARAH: However, however, it is at almost eleven hundred five hundred… eleven thousand… no, fuck me.
KAYLA: Eleven hundred, five hundred, my favorite number.
SARAH: It is at almost eleven thousand five hundred dollars, which is a couple hundred bucks up from where it was on Friday.
KAYLA: This is very exciting. And once again, I think we should take all the credit for this.
SARAH: Um, I don't know that that's the best course of action.
KAYLA: Well, okay.
SARAH: So, if you haven't donated yet to Alaa's fundraiser, donate. If you have, perhaps even donate again if it's good for you.
KAYLA: Again? Yeah. Why not?
SARAH: Do we have any other housekeeping we'd like to go over?
KAYLA: Um, I was just going to say thank you to the folks that have sent us mail recently. Sarah and I both received some lovely postcards from Edinburgh. Mine is in my… Am I a cubicle now?
SARAH: Mine is in my hand right now.
KAYLA: There it is. I also received a large amount of very beautiful buttons from Australia.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: I don't know who exactly they're from. I mean, I know who the letter… like, what they… what the name was on the envelope, you know? But like, I don't know if there's an online identity I should be matching to.
SARAH: You should be associating it with, yeah.
KAYLA: But it was the most beautiful collection of buttons. And there were buttons that the person strung together to be the ace and aro flags. They're so beautiful.
SARAH: So cute! I was very excited. Did they just have these buttons lying around?
KAYLA: I don't know. I don't know who this person… the only thing was there was a tiny piece of paper that just said, “Enjoy!” like in one of the bags of buttons. That was the only words I received, so.
SARAH: Amazing. The internet. What a wild place.
KAYLA: I also have button coasters now that my roommate got me. They're like large buttons.
SARAH: Yeah, they're just like a big button.
KAYLA: Oh, wet. It's just like silicone. It's just a large button.
SARAH: Just like a button.
KAYLA: I need to see an update on my button collection.
SARAH: Great. I love that for you.
KAYLA: Thank you.
SARAH: All right, Kayla, what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: This week, we're talking about something that I think… and also, we've prepared nothing. So, I think this is…
SARAH: Hey, hey…
KAYLA: Sorry
SARAH: While I was waiting for you to join this Zoom, I pulled up like six articles.
KAYLA: Okay, sorry. We've prepared about five minutes. We did five minutes of prep. But I think this is like a classic Sounds Fake
SARAH: It is
KAYLA: Because this is something that sounds fake to me that I like just don't… I cannot wrap my head around this. And we're talking about boy moms.
SARAH: Boy moms.
KAYLA: The reason that I thought of this topic was I recently came across a song called… what was it? I made Sarah listen to it. Did you listen to it or just read it?
SARAH: I listened to like the preview that it gave me on Spotify when you texted it to me and I was like, “this is enough.”
KAYLA: That's enough. It's called ‘Her Little Man’ by Jami Grooms.
SARAH: I mean, that sounds like… that's a full sentence. Jami Grooms. That's an unfortunate last name.
KAYLA: Yes, by Jami Grooms, who I don't… it seems like they only have… I mean, I guess it's… okay. Oh, wow. Look at him.
SARAH: Oh.
KAYLA: He's like a country singer. Anyway.
SARAH: No, I don't want to play it.
KAYLA: Well, should we perhaps just play a little sample?
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: It would be complicated.
KAYLA: Too bad. It's already playing.
SARAH: Oh, he looks… yeah.
KAYLA: Anyway, let me look at the lyrics. So, you can just get a little… basically, I guess I won't read them. Basically, the story follows this mom and at the beginning she's like painting a room blue because it's a boy and he's due next week and she's…
SARAH: He's due next week and she's painting the room now?
KAYLA: That's what it says? I don't…
SARAH: Is painting while pregnant like an extra risk or is it fine?
KAYLA: They make pregnancy safe paint.
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: I've seen pregnancy safe paint before, but I don't know like what's wrong with normal paint.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: So anyway. So, she's dancing in the kitchen with her little man, but it's in her belly because she knows there'll come a day when some lucky girl will dance in her place. She holds on as long as she can to her little man and then he's a baby and then they dance.
SARAH: He heads off to senior prom. She says, “how about a dance with mom?”
KAYLA: Because one day someone else. So anyway, I heard this song and I sent it to Sarah and I said, “please listen to this.”
SARAH: Yeah. And then it ends with… at his wedding and they're doing their first dance and then he comes over to his mom and he says, there's still one girl I haven't danced with tonight. And she dances with her little man spinning around hand-in-hand because she knows today is the day that lucky woman will dance in her place. She holds on as long as she can to the memory of every dance with her little man.
KAYLA: Well, like they're never going to dance ever again?
SARAH: You can't ever dance together with your son ever again?
KAYLA: No, it's over now. It's over.
SARAH: It's over.
KAYLA: So anyway, that just made me think about boy moms. If you've never heard about like the concept of a boy mom, it is a mom of a boy child and not every mom with boy children, I think is like this.
SARAH: Yeah. Just saying boy mom in and of itself does not necessarily have the meaning of what it has come to mean as an internet term.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: There are people who would probably refer to themselves as boy moms who mean it in a completely innocent way in that I am the mother of a boy
KAYLA: That’s it, yeah
SARAH: But it has come to have a more robust meaning here on the internet, which I would describe it as a woman who has a son and is obsessed with the fact that her son is a son, that it is a boy.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: And if she has daughters, she treats her son very differently from how she treats her daughters.
KAYLA: Yes. It's a very, like, I think a very like spoiled thing, a very like, I will do whatever for you. Like I knew some people in college, men in college, boys, they were boys. I knew some boys in college that their mothers would drive pretty long distances to come to campus like every other week and do their laundry for them.
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: That is boy-mom behavior.
SARAH: Jesus Christ.
KAYLA: So, it's a very like cooking everything for the boy, doing everything like there's no responsibility of growing up, becoming mature, becoming like an independent adult. Because that's just her little boy.
SARAH: According to USA Today, a mother may be called a boy mom if she talks about or displays signs of favoring her male children over her female children, expresses a distaste for girl children and enthusiasm for boys based solely on gender. You see this a lot in like gender reveals, like very strong negative reactions to finding out the gender of your kid, which is wild to me
KAYLA: It’s so wild
SARAH: Speaks about her son in a way that viewers perceive as being almost romantic, hyper fixates on her male child's gender and all things boy, or if she gives special treatment to her sons through coddling and obvious favoritism.
KAYLA: I think the… like the romantic sexual thing is like a staple of the boy mom. And I even remember, I don't know why I brought this up, but I was talking about like maybe a weird like boy mom story or something with my dad. And he was like, “oh, yeah, like that's just been going…” He was like, “that's nothing new.” He was like, “that's been going on forever.” But I think it's… the thing that makes it the weirdest is the like the kind of thing that this song I think was getting out of like your child's potential future partner, like taking your place
SARAH: Taking your child away from you. I have a couple examples from…
KAYLA: Oh, good
SARAH: Straight from the mouths of boy moms.
KAYLA: Okay, perfect.
SARAH: So, this I pulled from a New York Times article recently, somewhat recently. It was, I guess, a big video that was like going around on TikTok. A lot of people were stitching, has since been deleted. But this Ms. Woods, who an influencer and podcast has more than two million followers on TikTok. So, she's sitting in her car after receiving her son's recent school pictures. And she says, my boy moms feel me on this, but my son has my heart, my heart and soul. She adds that she is obsessed with her daughter. She is just the greatest little girl in the whole world. But my whole life, I always wanted to be a boy mom. And then she shows off several photos of her son. And then like in response, there are people who are saying like, like other people who identify as boy moms solely in the sense that they are the mother of boys.
[00:10:00]
KAYLA: They have boys
SARAH: So, like Abby Eckel said, “this type of relationship tends to not have or allow boundaries, creating an unhealthy relationship. I would never place that much pressure on my son or sons to tell them one of them is my heart and soul. Boy moms have a lot of negative connotations, including the idea that they are weirdly obsessed with their sons.” Dr. Makuki Enyart from the University of Iowa says, “it really sets up or reinforces these really gendered expectations we have for these extended family relationships,” blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And then when I looked up boy mom, a couple of the responses down, I found like a blog post that was from a boy mom.
KAYLA: Oh, no, no, no.
SARAH: So, let me read that to you. Now first of all, she talks about like the logistical things. Getting peed on when changing diapers. Okay. Yeah.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Yeah, sure. And then she talks about how boys play so much rougher and I'm not in a place to make an actual judgment on whether that's actually true or whether that's how much of that is nature versus nurture. But like, okay. This is when it gets especially weird, “what I can tell you about being a boy mom is that it means you, their mother, are their first love. The bond that boys and moms share with one another is irrefutable. Both of my boys are stereotypical mama's boys. I am the one who can kiss the boo-boos and make them better. I am the one who can comfort them when they are sick and when they see me, their eyes light up. I would never trade all the messes and roughness for the love I received from my boys. I have my work cut out with me with all the messes, but it is worth it hearing my almost two-year-old say mama and the oldest one come running out of school saying, mommy, I did so good today.
KAYLA: Are these not the exact same things that would happen with any child of any gender?
SARAH: Yes. And I think the thing that struck me aside from like the first love thing, which is weird and we'll get into that, is the idea that like, “I would never trade all the messes and roughness for the love I receive from my boys,” which makes it seem like you would not feel the same way if you had daughters. Like it's kind of like implicitly saying that it wouldn't be the same if you have daughters or that you wouldn't like it if you had daughters or that if they were daughters, they wouldn't love you as much.
KAYLA: Well, what I'm getting is that your daughters would not be as messy, which like I don't… I think…
SARAH: I don't think that's true.
KAYLA: I think a lot of the ways that children play is a nurture thing of like you tell your girl children that they need to like clean up after themselves or even just like the types of toys that are girl toys versus boy toys.
SARAH: And that's why I was like, I can't necessarily speak to like how much of that is nature versus nurture. But I do think that it's certainly not all nature.
KAYLA: Yeah. I mean, it's been a long time since I was like in a developmental psychology class or whatever. But like the science of it being nature there makes no sense to me, because even if you were to go so far as like it's a hormone thing of like the boys have more testosterone, which makes them more like rough or whatever, like, I don't know that children have that much. There's like that many hormonal differences.
SARAH: There's not.
KAYLA: Pre-puberty.
SARAH: That's why like little girls and little boys are equally as strong pre puberty, like as little kids.
KAYLA: Yeah. Or like the… like heights are more similar, like hormones that make a difference in those kinds of physical attributes have not kicked in yet.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Brother.
SARAH: I have another one. This is a self-described toxic mum and… wait, Anna Saccone Joly wait, I know that name. Why do I know that name? She was a YouTuber. She's been a YouTuber. As I was looking up information on this woman, according to Tattle Life, Anna Saccone and Jonathan Joly are Irish family bloggers who are known for sharing and monetizing their children since they were born.
KAYLA: Oh, get their ass.
SARAH: Okay, so I recognize this name from the old internet days. You have Anna Saccone and then Jonathan Joly who are married, but Jonathan is gay also maybe non-binary now.
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: They have some kids and I have learned that one of the kids is trans.
KAYLA: Slay
SARAH: It took some real digging to figure out what they meant by a trans mom because it just kept saying trans mom and I was like, “I need more detail.”
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: She has a video just called becoming a trans mom.
KAYLA: Oh, yeah, that could mean several different things
SARAH: It could mean multiple things. Anyway, so, sorry, got derailed by recognizing that name. Okay, so she's a self-described toxic mom. She says, “I love my four kids equally, but that last little boy just hits different. When I think about my daughters getting married, I get excited. When I think about my son's wedding, I want to cry.”
KAYLA: Oh, no.
SARAH: When her son hits or punches his sisters, there are no consequences. He must be having a hard day; she tells her girls. The video with…
KAYLA: Wait, she says that?
SARAH: The video ends with a smiling Saccone Joly saying she and other toxic moms got to realize we are the problem. Okay, self-aware.
KAYLA: But is this a joke? I can't tell if she's kidding. Like that's a little too self-aware, you know? Is it parody?
SARAH: It is a bit self-aware. Honestly, I think the fact that we really just use her as a jumping off point for this particular article on parents.com is I need an article about her because she has a trans kid.
KAYLA: Well, because I was going to get into this later, but like, there are so many issues with like the boy mom situation, but the genderedness of it and the heteronormativity that comes with it is just like hugely harmful.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: To put that much pressure on being like, “I love being a boy mom,” just is cementing to your child that the reason you love them is because they are a boy. And if that were to change, or if they never felt like a boy, then that is going to change how you love that child. And then also the energy that comes with it of like, I'm their first love, or like when they get married, first of all, very amatonormative to assume that all of your children are going to get married, but also the idea of like, I am the woman in my son's life, but one day I'm going to be replaced by another woman just like assumes that there will be a woman in the future.
SARAH: And it's also placing romantic sexual relationships on a pedestal and I mean outright saying that they are the most important relationship regardless of any other factors.
KAYLA: Right, because that's just admitting that you think a romantic sexual relationship will trump your relationship with your child as a familiar relationship, which looks like, it may
SARAH: It might
KAYLA: It could, especially if you're going to be a mom like this
SARAH: Be like this, yeah
KAYLA: I don't know that I want to keep a relationship with you. But like, that is just so much pressure on gender and sexuality of your child from birth.
SARAH: Yeah, here's a TikTok from December. I think this is the… this is either the caption or… Oh, this is from Jonathan Joly. But either way, the caption is, “my daughter Edie came out as trans five years ago and since then she has blossomed and grown into a beautiful young lady, although life was very difficult for her in the beginning recently Edie has found happiness and settled into life as a girl. So maybe this might be the message you needed to hear to live your true self.” But if… so, okay. So, with Anna Saccone Joly saying that she, it's just her last son that she feels so strongly about being a boy mom to.
KAYLA: I mean, she did say the youngest, like the littlest one.
SARAH: It looks like she has four kids. She has three girls, including the trans girl and her youngest is a boy. So, it's like when Edie was born and assigned male at birth, did she treat Edie in the way that she treats her other son? And did that change when Edie, like, what?
KAYLA: It's very like the fact that you could hold having a trans child and holding that you are a boy mom at the same time, like that just doesn't, like, I can't quite wrap my mind around the fact that you could identify as a trans mom and a boy mom and like not see how conflicting those two attitudes are.
SARAH: Yeah. Especially if you are, if your trans child is a trans girl.
KAYLA: Right, exactly. Like, I don't understand how you could understand the fluidity of gender enough to very openly accept your male to female trans child and then still cement the gender of your youngest son by saying that, like, he is your everything. Like how do you not understand what kind of pressure that puts on your one son?
SARAH: And this is already a very sticky situation because they are like family vloggers and that is a whole other thing and like I found, I came across this like Reddit post where someone was saying like they're really worried about the trans child and his family
KAYLA: Yeah, fair
SARAH: Because there's been a camera in this kid's face her entire life and I guess the dad especially was like really like making public like, oh, deciding to wear a dress… like all of like the minor decisions that this kid was making
[00:20:00]
KAYLA: Yeah, that’s a lot
SARAH: And then also like, and they were books and whatever and like doing stuff for financial gain. That's a whole other situation and there definitely are entire podcasts about that, but that's just wild to me that these two things can exist in the same space and you as a mother do not see them as conflicting with each other or like butting heads.
KAYLA: But it also seems like she's slightly self-aware though, which like to me almost makes it worse to realize that you're being toxic and realize that you're the problem and then continuing to perpetuate those behaviors.
SARAH: I mean, it seems like she's maybe trying to like not do it as much.
KAYLA: Here's my question, she says that when she thinks about her three daughters getting married, she gets really excited. When she thinks about her son getting married, she cries. When her trans daughter was still identifying as her son, did she like her daughter came out as trans and she was suddenly like, I'm not sad about your potential wedding one day, like do you know what I mean? Like when does that switch happen?
SARAH: It's also interesting because the trans kid like started at least like her social transition at the age of like five
KAYLA: Okay, so quite young
SARAH: So, it was quite young. So, it's like, I don't know how that may have differed if she was older when it started
KAYLA: Sure, yeah
SARAH: But even then, you know, you have these parents who are looking at their young children and thinking about them getting married and it's like, what the fuck are you doing? The kid is like trying to learn how to read
KAYLA: Yeah, kid is busy
SARAH: Like why are you talking about their fucking wedding night? What is wrong with you?
KAYLA: Yeah, no, it's weird.
SARAH: Wow. That kind of took us off on a side thing, but I just…
KAYLA: No, but I think it is very relevant. I think like… it also makes me think that the times that I think I have found, at least on the Internet, that boy moms are the most like visual, I guess, is when their sons get married specifically to a woman, like the amount of like Reddit posts I've seen or just like comedic skits about women dealing with their mother-in-laws who are boy moms. Like it is wild, like the amount of control that these women try to keep over their sons and therefore try to keep on their daughter-in-law of like, well, here's how I do things for my son. Like he likes things this way. You need to do X, Y, and Z to take care of him. Like, wasn't it an am I the asshole or something Reddit we saw where… or no, I think there was a video I was watching of like reactions to wild Reddit stories, but this woman in her wedding vows to her husband was like, “oh, you know, I love you despite all your flaws.” And the mom of the man like stood up and started screaming about how her son does not have any flaws.
SARAH: Jesus fucking Christ
KAYLA: And it was like a whole thing, like in the middle of the courthouse was just like this woman screaming about how her son is perfect.
SARAH: Oh my God
KAYLA: And it was like, what are we… Hello?
SARAH: Oh my God.
KAYLA: Like that is a boy mom.
SARAH: Oh yeah. And it also leads to like a sense of resentment towards your child's spouse
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Because you feel that they have taken your place.
KAYLA: Right. And that you know how to do… you know how to take care of your son best, which is also like, if you were raising your boy to like take care of him for everything like that is not going to be an independent man.
SARAH: Yeah. You're not raising an independent person.
KAYLA: And you're not raising a good partner or like friend or anything, like you're not raising someone who's going to be good at relationships of any kind.
SARAH: You're raising a dead weight.
KAYLA: Like no, literally like if you're raising someone to be completely codependent, like…
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: That is not someone who's going to be like a functioning member of society.
SARAH: Yeah. In this article from parents.com, we have one person who says, “these stereotypes don't allow us…” these like boy mom stereotypes, don’t… stereotypes about children, enforced by the ‘boy moms.’
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: “They don’t allow us to see a child as a unique individual and that's never good. When I see a mom with a ‘boys will be boys’ attitude, I think it's a shame, those kids need help learning how to regulate their emotions and behavior.” And then this person, whoever wrote this, Michaelle Weiner, this person goes on to talk about like, despite anecdotal evidence, there's actually no scientific basis for the idea that boys are naturally more physical and girls are more nurturing. They're not identical at birth, but early experience permanently alters the chemistry and function of the genes inside cells, leading to significant effects on behavior. The different ways parents raise boys and girls may similarly leave their stamps on children's developing brains. And then it says, likewise, I found plenty of academic literature showing that boys tend to be physically more active than girls. Not one shows a causal relationship between sex assigned at birth and levels of physical activity.
KAYLA: All right. Because if you… like, if you think about, you give your boy and your girl child typical boy and girl toys, right? You give your girl like little dolls, little like kitchen set, whatever. Those are very like stationary toys and activities. And then you let your boy go outside and get dirty and messy and play with trucks or whatever. Then yeah, like that boy child will probably grow up to be more physical because that is what you nurtured them to become.
SARAH: Yeah. And this writer goes on to say, “while I'm disheartened by the stereotyping inherent in hashtag boy mom culture, that's not the part that scares me. What scares me is that this trend is steeped in the broth of rape culture. There is not an ounce of consent in any of the so many short videos I watched while researching this article. The children are not consenting to being objectified by their mothers. The mothers are not consenting to being treated poorly by their sons and husbands. The girls aren't consenting to being princessified by their parents and boys aren't consenting to being dutified by theirs. Consent is a learned behavior rooted in the idea of mutual respect for another human. When we do not teach our sons to seek consent, we're teaching them to use other people's bodies as objects that can be used. When we do not teach our daughters to expect respect, we're teaching them to accept abuse and belittlement as the norm.” And then she goes on to say, “as parents, my wife and I are keenly aware we're raising people. The children of today will define the world of tomorrow, yes. And that's too much pressure. It's also the truth. We need to take that responsibility very seriously.” Yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I think that that idea that this author has that she's saying that we're raising people, we're not raising boys and girls is what is so clearly lacking from the mindset of people who identify as boy moms. There's also hashtag girl dads, but I think it's a very different phenomenon. It's not very different, but I think it's its own category. It's not completely equivalent.
KAYLA: I… yeah. Because I was thinking about that when we were talking about this episode, I was like, oh, should we like talk about girl moms or like, you know, girl dads or whatever. And it does feel very different. I mean, I think that…
SARAH: You never hear anything about boy dads though.
KAYLA: You don't, but I think we all know, like I don't, the thing is, I don't know that you need to talk about a boy dad. You know?
SARAH: Sorry. I was just… I was looking at my… I was closing tabs and I saw a TikTok from Anna Saccone Joly, who was like, “you're telling me that trans mom and gay dad became besties?” And then they're like, “yay.” And in the comments, it's like, “babe, you're a mom of a trans child. You're not a trans mom.” Like be careful of terminology. Like…
KAYLA: Yeah. I don't know what that is.
SARAH: Yeah. And also someone said trans mom is as bad as autism mom. Your kid is trans. Not you. Stop making it about yourself.
KAYLA: True.
SARAH: Anyway. Sorry. Keep going.
KAYLA: Um, I don't think you talk about a boy dad because I think you kind of assume that that's like the default. Like I think people kind of assume that like all men when they're having a child are hoping it's a boy. Like, I think that's just kind of the stereotype. I will say the through line of all of these is that you do not identify as like a boy mom or a… you know, a girl dad or whatever. If you do not care about the gender of your child. Like these are all people who when they are doing their gender reveal parties and they are doing a gender reveal party, they have a gender that they are hoping for. And in that they have a future already mapped out for their child. They're like, “oh, I'm hoping I have a boy so I can play football with him.”
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So, he can do all the sports I did or I'm hoping I have a girl so I can put her like in little dance classes. You know, like the kinds of people who are identifying as this are people who have very strong feelings about gender norms and are going to put those on their children.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Because it's not so much that they're excited to like have a child. They're excited or like excited to raise a person. They're excited to raise a boy or a girl in a very specific way.
SARAH: Yeah. Sorry. There's this website called ‘What to Expect.’ And this person was like, “tell me the perks of being a boy mom. I have a feeling I'm having a boy. My sister told me the love little boys have for their moms is so sweet.” So, it's just people being like, here are the perks of being a boy mom. And it's just like, “your boy will give you the sweetest cuddles and always defend you. They have so much energy. They're the sweetest. They're protectors. They're…” what? This person says, “you get to be the queen of the house without sharing with a princess.”
KAYLA: What the fuck? I don't like that.
[00:30:00]
SARAH: It's just… it's so they're definitely like placing these expectations onto these kids because they're all saying the same thing rather than being like, “oh, my child is an individual.”
KAYLA: Yeah. That also kind of makes me think that maybe part of the boy mom thing is that like, in that idea of being excited that you're the queen of the house not having to share is that these women like are not girls, girls
SARAH: Oh, no
KAYLA: And potentially would feel threatened by a daughter who is taking the attention of their husband.
SARAH: Yeah. Which is a whole other like…
KAYLA: Very fucked up situation.
SARAH: What do you mean you're upset that your daughter is taking your husband's attention? That's a completely different type of attention. You're his wife and that is his daughter.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: And if he… and if he views that as a similar thing, then dear God, get that child out of the house.
KAYLA: You have bigger problems.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah. But like that's what it kind of feels like to me is these are women who like they are not interested in sharing space with other women.
SARAH: Yeah. That's tough. Do we want to get into the like emotional incest aspect of it a little bit more?
KAYLA: I guess. I mean, it's gross.
SARAH: According to Urban Dictionary, the definition of boy mom is a mother who is emotionally incestuous with her sons.
KAYLA: Let me just run a quick content notice in my in my notes for that.
SARAH: So emotional incest, also known as covert incest, happens when a parent or caregiver relies on a child for emotional needs that an adult relationship would usually provide. They may behave like the child is a love life partner. This is from Medical News Today talking about like what are signs of emotional incest. So, relying on a child for support, putting their needs before the child's, invading the child's privacy, including like doing things that make the child feel awkward, such as ignoring the child's wish for privacy when they're nude or the parent being nude around the child. Using the child like a love life partner. This could consist of taking the child on dates, discussing their sex life or making explicit comments about the child's body or appearance. The caregiver may also insist that the child call them names typically reserved for adult relationships. However, in cases of emotional incest, there is no sexual contact. And then it says feeling jealous of the child's relationships. When the child becomes an adult, the parent or caregiver may become envious of their romantic relationships. They may compete for attention and trued on or attempt to sabotage them. This reminds me of a video I saw in the past couple of weeks where this mom had a teenage son and she talked about how she would go on dates with her son. And just because he's a teenager doesn't mean they don't stop going on the dates. We may have even mentioned this on the podcast. And it's like, why are you referring to them… No, we did we did talk about this on the podcast because we were saying like why are you referring to them as…
KAYLA: As dates
SARAH: As straight up dates when that comes with a certain connotation that could be easily averted by either adding more descriptive words like mother-son date or just like saying like hanging out like…
KAYLA: Yes, I think like that's fine
SARAH: Oh, the woman referred to it as dating her son
KAYLA: Nope, no
SARAH: And that and that was fucking weird
KAYLA: That is so much weird because it's one thing to be like yeah like a mommy-daughter date or whatever like that is something I hear about all the time of like, oh, we're having like a mommy daughter day, we're going to like go out and you know see a movie or do whatever like or even like you have like a daddy-daughter dance or things like that like even that it's like, “okay we understand the relationship that's happening here,” but to say you're dating your son is bizarre
SARAH: It’s so fucking weird. Yeah, so Asiana Teppenhart on sub stack says, “nothing is wrong with being the mother of a boy or even being proud of your son that's normal the hashtag boy mom hashtag though is not quite that, it's a hashtag that describes women who are extremely focused on their sons to the point that they act like jealous girlfriends, on TikTok you can find tons of videos of women saying how much more they love their sons and their daughters they may brag about home-cooked meals so ‘he won't be impressed by your daughter's cooking’ or even letting boys hit their sisters.” Um this person says, “there are not many statistics on how common covert incest or emotional incest is in families but I suspect it's very high.” Um, this person says, “I don't think there's a person alive who doesn't know a man whose mother kept saying no woman is good enough for her precious little boy,” it's a tv trope for a reason. More than half of all divorcees noted that in-laws caused arguments at home. And then this person is positing just based on their own personal experience, I'd wager… they would wager that this is one of the most common forms of abuse boys and men face I also feel like the TikTok trend of hashtag boy mom is dangerous because it is actively encouraging this kind of behavior
KAYLA: Yeah, absolutely. I mean I think even going back to what you were saying kind of about like consent and rape culture
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: It very sadly makes sense of if you as a boy child are used to your mother kind of forcing herself upon you that that's how you think a relationship with others would look like that like oh my mom treats me this way, my mom doesn't really get my consent for how she's you know like talking to me or like looking at me or whatever and so you think that you don't have to give that courtesy to anyone else
SARAH: Yeah. This person then like concludes this post saying, “if you have a son for all that is holy do not do this to your kid this is how you end up psychologically destroying your kid, this is how you end up being a mom with a son who is either no contact or stuck at home unemployed and unwilling to work at 4 to 5, I speak as the ex of men who were treated this way, you do not want to see your son turn out that way, you owe it to yourself, your son and your family to act like a parent and learn to let your son become an adult, your kid is not your lover, please get help if you start acting like he is. And men it's okay to admit what your mom is doing isn't right, you owe it to yourself to escape as soon as you can and with hope get help so that you can heal”
KAYLA: Freud is loving this
SARAH: Freud loves boy moms
KAYLA: Freud… literally boy moms were Freud's like whole shit
SARAH: Oh, yeah
KAYLA: He was like, “get a load of this”
SARAH: Get a load of this
KAYLA: Oedipus, get into it
SARAH: Oh my God, not this person on reddit saying, “my ex had a mom that was strangely jealous I was dating her son, it was so bad I had to break up with him”
KAYLA: Oh yeah, I've seen…
SARAH: Which is exactly what that mom wanted
KAYLA: Oh yeah, 100%, you know the amount of stories I've seen like this on reddit especially are just absolutely wild and so many of the men are like very sadly so oblivious to the fact that like this is not a normal or healthy relationship
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: To have with your mother, because it also like I think for a lot of men it benefits them, right? Like you're having someone wait on you hand and foot
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Doing your laundry, cooking for you when you're a grown man, you know?
SARAH: Yeah. I've not found some more first-hand… from the mouth of boy moms
KAYLA: Mm, yes
SARAH: This person is describing what to them… what to her, because I know this is a cis woman because…
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: What to her being a boy mom means, so, she says a boy mom is a mother to one or more boys, the term is commonly connected to mothers who only have sons but in reality a boy mom is a mother that has at least one son and understands the unique challenges and gifts of raising boys, she may or may not have daughters, if you're a mama to boys and girls and you're both a boy mom and a girl mom, the term boy mom is often used to connect to and identify with fellow boy moms
KAYLA: Here's my thing, I don't necessarily think it is wrong to seek advice for like having a certain gender of child
SARAH: Me neither, here's the thing, if I had a child thrust upon me and it were a boy
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I would not know what to do with it
KAYLA: No, here's the thing, it is same, because I am one of two girls you are the same
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: I… like that is my experience is growing up in a house of women with my dad my mom and me and my sister like that is what I understand
SARAH: I grew up primarily around girls because my mom said I don't have any cousins but my mom only has a sister, my dad's side I have a lot of cousins but they are disproportionately girls and I grew up doing dance which is disproportionately female and gymnastics where it was like segregated, it had to be segregated because boys and girls do different events in gymnastics
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So, I was really only surrounded by girls growing up like we had…
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: We had like family friends who we like danced with and there were… of the people that my mom is to like besties with, it was our family with me and my sister, a family with four daughters, a family with two daughters and a family with three daughters and one son
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So, like that's what I've been exposed to
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And like I understand that you want to treat your children the same way regardless of their gender but you also have to be careful not to be accidentally enforcing certain things on them and so I would definitely freak out if I were given a boy
KAYLA: No, it’s the same. Because we have very similar, I think like family setups and like what we did as children, I was also like from the majority of my life have just been primarily… This stage of my life is the most I've been around men in my entire life as someone in their late 20s
SARAH: Yeah
[00:40:00]
KAYLA: And yeah, I totally agree like I think you should strive to raise your child as gender neutrally as you can but you also have to have the understanding that society is not going to view that and so your child based on their gender and what they look like are going to be treated a certain way and you as a parent need to know how to like help them through that
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And I know how to talk a girl through that, I don't really know… I don't understand what the experience is to be a young boy
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So, I totally get moms going on the internet and saying you know what do I need to expect from raising a son I've never done something like that before, but…
SARAH: I also just straight-up biologically don't know what's going on there
KAYLA: Me, neither. I don't get it
SARAH: I know nothing about that, so, I would need help on that front also
KAYLA: Same
SARAH: I mean you definitely know more than I do
KAYLA: That's true
SARAH: But yeah, this is a list… this woman has a list of 48 things like about being a boy mom and so many of them are just like kid things
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Furniture is their playground, okay, furniture was my playground
KAYLA: It’s just a child thing
SARAH: My mom always had to say to me be aware of where people and things are around you, boys hold their pee until the last moment, it sounds like ADHD actually
KAYLA: So does Sarah. Yeah
SARAH: They don't care about looking handsome, they would rather be comfy, they would rather wear their favorite shirt day in and day out, yeah that's what children do
KAYLA: That’s what Sarah… you're just describing Sarah as an adult, you’re a boy
SARAH: I am a boy
KAYLA: Sarah is a boy
SARAH: Boys are loud, they're always on the move, they're cuddly and snuggly, lots of laundry
KAYLA: That's every child
SARAH: Messes, you'll need to put all the breakable home decor away, like what the fuck? That's just having a child
KAYLA: That's just having a child, just that's what you do
SARAH: Yeah, boys can be gross, you'll be asking, “did you wash your hands?” More times than you can think about coffee throughout the day, yeah, yeah
KAYLA: That's a child
SARAH: That's just a child. Oh my God
KAYLA: Good Lord
SARAH: Number three, you are their queen
KAYLA: No
SARAH: As a mother of boys, your son see you as the center of their universe, their comfort zone, you are their first love until a certain age they really do think you know everything which doesn't necessarily mean they will listen to everything you say, there aren't many things boys won't do for their mama
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: That's weird
KAYLA: I don’t know. Okay
SARAH: So, like I understand like as you started getting at and I just kept distracting us, I understand like wanting to find a community of like people who can like help you figure out how to do this thing, parenting is hard, no one knows how to be a parent, no one knows
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And so, like I understand wanting to find someone who shares that experience and specifically who may have similar experiences to you but the fact that it has become an identity
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Rather than just a way of building community and support
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Is the weird part
KAYLA: Building your identity around the identity of your child is bizarre, saying things like, I am a trans mom, I am a gay mom, I am a boy mom, like that is… you will have an identity as a parent
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: That is true, that is something about you, but what your child does, does not have to become your full thing
SARAH: Yeah. This articles from another boy mom it says, “here's what many people don't know, raising boys has more tender moments than outsiders realize, there are feelings, emotions and compassion beyond the energetic and loud exterior” yeah, because they're human, people
KAYLA: Because that’s a human child
SARAH: And I think that's so indicative of the way that people just view boys and girls so profoundly differently in the emotions they have, the emotions they're allowed to express, the way they're allowed to express those emotions that like of course they have feelings, emotions and compassion beyond the energetic and loud exterior, of course they do, that's a little person, that is a human being, that's a little dude
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like, and so the fact that like you expect that like, oh, it's just all like hardcore
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: It's just… that's so much just enforcing gender stereotypes on your kids from day negative 12, let me see if I can find any other direct quotes that are like new and bad. This woman says on loveandmarriageblog.com, “boys love their mamas, now I'm sure girls love their mamas too but from what I've heard there is an extra special love between mothers and sons.” Why? Explain why.
KAYLA: Yeah, I don't get that
SARAH: I think part of it is like viewing your daughter as your competition in some ways and I think it's also just like there's… you hear a lot about girls and their mothers especially once they're more like teenagers really butting heads
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And I think it's just like the expectation that if you have a son that won't happen therefore there's somehow a stronger bond there
KAYLA: I wonder if some of it is like the surprise at realizing that your son has emotions, like I wonder if some of this is people find out they're having a son, they know what men are like, which is unfortunately often very emotionally repressed, just because that is how men are socialized
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: And so, then it's like a surprise and a delight to find that their young son has strong feelings and compassion
SARAH: Has emotional capacity
KAYLA: And so, that's why it feels more special because you expect that from a girl and you don't expect that from a boy so then you feel like you're getting special treatment
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: When really, you're just now perpetuating that stereotype of like, “oh, what a surprise my son has feelings?” When you should expect that from any child
SARAH: From any child. Yeah, I think that's very, very true. This boy mom says what to expect as a boy mom, the first thing she mentions is, prepare to become a queen.
KAYLA: Why do they keep saying?
SARAH: The first thing you need to know about your little boy is that you are his first love from the moment he looks into your eyes, he may love another woman when he's grown but he will love you his whole life
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: And there is something so sweet and precious about the love between a mother and her son, sons have an innate desire to protect you, see you as beautiful and crave your affirmation, you will always be their queen, their queen… well, I guess boy moms plural, boys plural, okay whatever, and he will always be your prince, savor the beauty of that special connection, they will go from energetic to a pile of soft cuddly mush in your arms, you… in saying this, in saying that they have an innate desire to protect you, you are subjugating yourself
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like you are enforcing the patriarchy
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: On to yourself and you think it's cute, I'm upset
KAYLA: It makes no… it's so wild
SARAH: Yeah, I think this… Like all of the stuff I'm seeing is just like boys are rough, they have energy, they're going to break things, also, you're their queen,
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like those are the main points
KAYLA: I don't get it
SARAH: And that weirds me out a lot
KAYLA: It's weird
SARAH: Because imagine having a daughter and being like, “oh, like her father is her king”
KAYLA: That's the thing, is like, I feel like… okay, I don't like the… like the queen verbiage but I like… I think what they're saying goes for all children, that like you are your child's first love, you are your child's first relationship of any kind and for many years…
SARAH: You are the first person that will hopefully show them unconditional love
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Like of course they're going to be connected to that
KAYLA: Yeah, and of course they're going to think for many years that you know everything, like that is how… like, I didn't realize my parents didn't know everything until I was like 23
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Like it takes a while to see your parent as like a true flawed human being
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: That does not just go for boys, that's just like how a parent-child relationship tends to work
SARAH: Right. And I think it's all just… it all comes back to going in and expecting different things out of their kids
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And then those expectations becoming reality because you treat them differently
KAYLA: Because… yes, you make it… you manifest it into reality
SARAH: Yeah. Sorry, this is a BuzzFeed article with just like examples of really bad boy moms, this podcast is going on longer than anticipated but I just keep finding more alarming things. This is in a Facebook group, it's from a boy mom, “I'm embarrassed asking this, but my two-month-old has a large eggplant emoji
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: “It is bigger than my two-year-old’s. I'm only bringing it up because I heard a few remarks that alluded to my older son being a good size, my two-month-old is twice the size, as a mom you don't want anything to be too big or too small, you know, my husband mentioned it to our pediatrician and I was so embarrassed I almost fell out of the chair, she basically said, “well maybe it's a little above average” I guess my question is why my baby why is my baby's eggplant emoji bigger than my toddlers, I really don't want to fixate on this but is it maybe going to cause him any issues down the line”
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: Imagine in 20 years, these kids grow up
KAYLA: Ugh
SARAH: And they see this fucking post that their mom made
KAYLA: Here's my thing, do I think it's wrong to be concerned about your child's physical health in general?
SARAH: No
KAYLA: No. Like, I think that's a pretty valid question to ask your pediatrician of like, “hey man, I noticed a difference in size in some parts of the body from my two-year-old to my newborn” like that is strange a bit
[00:50:00]
SARAH: Yeah, is that just biological difference or is there something I might be concerned about?
KAYLA: Is there something wrong? Do we need to like check on anything?
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But we don't have to be posting about that online
SARAH: No. Well and it’s…
KAYLA: It is not something to share
SARAH: It seems like… okay, why is this woman embarrassed that her dad asked the pediatrician about it
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But is okay…
KAYLA: That is the one person you should be asking
SARAH: Right, but is okay posting about it in this Facebook group
KAYLA: Absolutely wild
SARAH: This one, it kind of just made me think something else, this person just mentions like you hear about a girl's daddy giving his daughter away on her wedding day. I think one of the things that may make girl dads and boy moms different is because girls are seen as, I'm being very… I'm overdone analyzing a lot here, but because girls are seen as property
KAYLA: Uh huh
SARAH: Like a girl dad expects to give his daughter away, like expects to have a transaction at some point
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Whereas with a boy mom, a boy is always viewed as an independent individual being
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: He is not currency
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: And I think girl dads are like… the bad girl dads, are like, “oh, yeah that's just like the way of the world, that's like how it's supposed to work” whereas for boy moms they look at it and they're like… I think it might also just be part of like patriarchy, just like weighing on them and instead of them reacting to it by pushing back they react to it by doubling down
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: And being like, oh, well since this kid is an individual human being I can only control him as long as I am his number one
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Because as soon as I am not his number one, he's a man and he outranks me
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: You know?
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: And so, I think that may be part of the difference in why like yes you hear about like dads like giving their daughters away and like getting emotional but like it's a different type of… it's a different vibe than how boy moms get about their sons getting married
KAYLA: I think that makes a lot of sense because there's also something I've heard about like the psychology of boys growing up seeing their mothers as like the head of the household, they know everything, they're the ones that are you know the primary caretakers and then they get older they go out into the world and they realize that women are not respected and so the idea is it makes them like angry at their mothers because their mothers have lied to them about how much power they actually hold
SARAH: It's like in the Barbie movie when Ken goes to fucking Century City
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: And he like sees men and horses
KAYLA: Yes, and he's like, “holy shit.” Yeah, so like part of me wonders if that's why there's so much of like the enforcement of like you are the queen is because as early as you can you are trying to establish yourself as the person in the position of power
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: So, that when your son grows up and realizes that the world is fucked up and it is actually them who is quote unquote supposed to be having that power
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: That they are still going to like give that power to you
SARAH: Differ to you
KAYLA: Yes, because you've already… you had it
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: And then that becomes why it's a problem when they have another woman in their life is because then that woman takes over that power from you
SARAH: That's their way of exerting control. And they… when the woman is a romantic sexual partner for their son, they're like, “oh, you can wield your womanly wiles against my son in a way that I can't, therefore I need to preempt that by becoming his queen,” whatever, whatever weird bullshit
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I think we actually got somewhere today
KAYLA: I think we solved it. I think we just solved the psyche… the psyche of the boy mom is that this is a woman who has never gotten to be in control in her life especially over men
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: And so, she says, “I'm having a boy so I can finally control a man”
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: “And it will make me feel better about living under the patriarchy”
SARAH: Yep
KAYLA: “So, I'm going to punish this one innocent child boy”
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: “For the wrongs of all of the other men and then just make him grow up to be just as bad as the men who have wronged me”
SARAH: “I'm going to fuck him up so bad”
KAYLA: Yep
SARAH: “He's going to turn out to be just as bad”
KAYLA: Just as shitty, yep
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: We solved it
SARAH: How do we break the cycle? No fucking idea
KAYLA: Great question, therapy?
SARAH: Therapy, reading our book
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Reading Sounds Fake But Okay, subtitle, subtitle, subtitle, because we do it on that just a smitch, a tiny bit
KAYLA: Yeah. I guess, yeah
SARAH: A little tiny bit, but embracing the aspec lens in general as it applies to gender I think is helpful in breaking that cycle
KAYLA: Yes, yes
SARAH: So
KAYLA: I agree
SARAH: Wow, what a journey we've been on
KAYLA: We did it
SARAH: Kayla, what is our poll for this week?
KAYLA: Hmm, that's a great question.
SARAH: I mean it could be like, do you know or like are you like Facebook friends with or like do you have you know a personal connection in some way to any boy moms? The answers are… the options are no, yes, but it's normal, like it's like a… it's just a woman having a son and then yes but it's weird
KAYLA: It’s weird. I would also like to hear just like boy mom anecdotes of like if you have a boy mom in action
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: In real life or like someone you know online
SARAH: Yeah, very curious about that. All right, you can tell us about your beef, your juice, your local boy moms on our social media…
KAYLA: We didn’t do beef and juice
SARAH: Fucking F… what's your beef and your juice? I didn't prepare for this
KAYLA: My beef is that my tummy hurts
SARAH: Oh, no
KAYLA: In like a cramp way, sometimes I get cramps when I am not on my period
SARAH: Oh, no
KAYLA: Now, I don't know if that's normal
SARAH: Yeah, I mean
KAYLA: Or what?
SARAH: It could be like a… like a diet thing, like a acid reflux thing
KAYLA: That's true, I did not have a good weekend for eating or drinking. I had a lot of… I should take a…
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: I had a lot of acid reflux last night because I’m old
SARAH: That's probably why
KAYLA: You're so right, I'll take a Tums, I hate Tums, they are a bad taste and texture but they work really well and really fast, it's very upsetting, yeah perfectly actually, they work so well
SARAH: I take Prilosec every day
KAYLA: Apparently though they have gummy Tums which I would like to try because I don't like the chalkiness of it, it makes me very upset
SARAH: Yeah, that seems upsetting. Anyway…
KAYLA: My other beef is Tums. Um, my juice is the wedding I was at this weekend had really good hors d'oeuvres, they had literally every hors d'oeuvre, they had crab Rangoon, they had little mini baskets of fries, they had egg roll, they had pigs in a blanket, they had spanakopita. They had…
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: Shrimp. It's like the little like shrimp and feta… nope, spinach and feta cheese like in the little triangle pastry
SARAH: Oh, okay, yeah
KAYLA: They had shrimp, they had potsticker, they had…
SARAH: Just one?
KAYLA: Yeah, it was literally like gourmet freezer section snacks but they were all really good, it was actually incredible
SARAH: That's got to be fucking expensive
KAYLA: I cannot even imagine. I had a great time
SARAH: What a delight
KAYLA: Yeah. And we were sitting right next to the kitchen so we just kept… we got…
SARAH: Oh yeah
KAYLA: We got the first
SARAH: Oh yeah
KAYLA: Literally I walked into the reception area and crab rangoons were just like thrust in my face, it was incredible
SARAH: Amazing, delightful. All right, my juice is long weekend
KAYLA: Mmm
SARAH: Long weekend good.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: My beef is stuff on the floor
KAYLA: Mm, mm-hmm
SARAH: You can tell us about your beef, your juice, your local boy moms on our social media @soundsfakepod, we also have a Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod if you’d like to support us there. Our $5 patrons who we're promoting this week are Green_sarah, Jennifer Smart, Joch, Jolly Lizbert and Kathryn Bailey. Our $10 patrons who we are promoting this week aaaare Kayla's dad
KAYLA: Aaaare
SARAH: Hashtag girl dad, Kayla's dad hashtag girl dad
KAYLA: My day is a girl dad, that man will talk about periods whenever you want, he's so chill about it
SARAH: My dad on a very base level definition is technically a girl dad but he does not have girl dad energy
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: He just has Jack energy
KAYLA: He has dad energy. I don't know that my dad really has any particular girl dad energy either other than the fact that he like… will… is not uncomfortable talking about bodily functions and also was the one like braiding our hair and getting us ready for school when we were young
SARAH: My dad was not good with the hair
KAYLA: He was really… I mean, it hurt, but he could do a mean braid
SARAH: Yeah, that's good, my mom… like there was one time where my mom was not there and my dad had to do my sister's hair for school and she wanted a ponytail and he was like, “wait a minute.” He tried his best
KAYLA: That's good
SARAH: It could have been better
KAYLA: Yeah, well, it takes practice
[01:00:00]
SARAH: You know. Um anyway, Kayla’s dad who would like to promote JandiCreations.com, Maff who would like to promote the Don't Should Sweatshirt, Martin Chiesl who would like to promote his podcast Everyone’s Special and No One Is, Parker who would like to promote being a silly little guy. I would say that's a gender neutral, you can be a silly little guy regardless and Purple Hayes who would like to promote their friend’s podcast The Host Club. Our other $10 patrons are Barefoot Backpacker, SongOStorm, Val, Alyson, Ani, Arcnes, Benjamin Ybarra, Bones, Celina Dobson, David Harris, Derick & Carissa, Elle Bitter, and my Aunt Jeannie who is a hashtag girl mom.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: Our $15 patrons are Ace who would like to promote the writer Crystal Scherer, Andrew Hillum who would like to promote The Invisible Spectrum podcast, Dia Chappell who'd like to promote Twitch.tv/MelodyDia, Hector Murillo who would like to promote friends that are supportive, constructive and help you grow as a better person, Nathaniel White who would like to promote NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com, Kayla’s Aunt Nina, what is aunt Nina?
KAYLA: She’s a girl mom
SARAH: Just a girl mom?
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: Okay. She would like to promote katemaggartart.com, Phoenix would like to promote something, I don't know yet and Schnell who would like to promote accepting that everyone is different and that's awesome. Our $20 patrons are Jacki Willenborg who would like to promote completing her dissertation and becoming Dr. Jacki
KAYLA: Oh my God, Dr. Jacki. Also, Jacki is the Jacki…
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: That I was thinking Jacki of
SARAH: Good one
KAYLA: Jacki, slay, hello Dr. Jacki
SARAH: Dr. Jacki slay. Hold on, I'm going to make your name Dr. Jacki
KAYLA: Dr. Jacki
SARAH: So that every week I read it as Dr. Jacki
KAYLA: Very good, excellent
SARAH: Our other $20 patrons are Dragonfly and my mom, hashtag girl mom
KAYLA: Hashtag girl mom
SARAH: Who would like to promote raising your children as people
KAYLA: Amazing, imagine
SARAH: Who would’ve thought?
KAYLA: Revolutionary
SARAH: Thanks for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows, hashtag cow mom
SARAH: Cow mom
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]
