Ep 315: Cishet Men are Homoerotic

Hey what's up hello! This week we're talking about heterosexual men, and how actually... homoerotic they are?

Content notice: Brief mentions of sexual assault

Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/cishet-men-are-homoerotic   

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Transcript

[00:00:00]

SARAH: Hey, what's up, hello, welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl. (I'm Sarah, that's me.)

KAYLA: And a bi demisexual girl. (That's me Kayla.)

SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.

KAYLA: On today's episode, Homoeroticism in Straight Male Culture.

BOTH: Sounds Fake But Okay

SARAH: Hey, what's up… no, what? 

KAYLA: No, we already did that, hey what's up

SARAH: Hey what's up, welcome back to the pod 

KAYLA: Hello, what if we just did it again? The whole thing 

SARAH: And then we did the song again, and that’s an entire podcast 

KAYLA: And then that was it, and then we went home

SARAH: I am at home, so are you 

KAYLA: Yeah. She is in her home, and so am I

SARAH: Kayla, hi

KAYLA: Hi

SARAH: Did we do a podcast last week? Yeah, we did 

KAYLA: Yeah, but it feels like forever ago 

SARAH: It does, it does feel like, it was exactly one week, because we…

KAYLA: It was 

SARAH: We podded on Thursday, but…

KAYLA: Yeah 

SARAH: Anyway, do we have any… 

KAYLA: Thursday next week, I'll be on the plane

SARAH: That's fine, I wasn't planning on Thursdaying this week, and yet, here we are

KAYLA: Here we are 

SARAH: Um, where, uh, uh… where are you going?

KAYLA: Home for my sister's baby shower

SARAH: Oh, a baby

KAYLA: She's so pregnant, her baby is the size of a cabbage this week 

SARAH: Oh, how…when is she due?

KAYLA: Mid-November 

SARAH: Wow, Thanksgiving Baby

KAYLA: Auntie Kayla 

SARAH: Oh my god, Auntie Kayla incoming. Um, anyway, do we have any housekeeping?

KAYLA: No

SARAH: Great, Kayla, what are we talking about this week?

KAYLA: This week we are talking about straight male culture, gross, and the, uh, homoerotic nature of it 

SARAH: Correct, I saw a tweet on the Twitter machine last week, and it reads, “not my partner finding feminist theory that blows my mind in The Bachelor Reddit” 

KAYLA: And to that I say, I believe that so quickly, because y'all know how I feel about theorizing about The Bachelor 

SARAH: So true, um, and then there's a screenshot of a comment from this Reddit, and it is a quote from Marilyn Fry, from the Politics of Reality: Essays in Feminist Theory, have I looked up the whole text of that whole essay? No 

KAYLA: Okay 

SARAH: This is Sounds Fake But Okay, you should not come in with such high expectations

KAYLA: We don't do our research

SARAH: Some of us are suffering 

KAYLA: Some of us have day jobs, okay?

SARAH: He he he. But we have this quote from here, and we're going to make a whole podcast out of it

KAYLA: Listen, Sarah was wondering if we could do a whole… if we could make a whole episode out of this, and I said, when it comes to talking about men being stupid, I think we can definitely stretch it 

SARAH: We can absolutely do it, so let me just, let me just start off by reading you this little quote from Marilyn Fry: “to say that straight men are heterosexual is only to say that they engage in sex, fucking exclusively with the other sex, i.e., women. All or almost all of that which pertains to love, most straight men reserve exclusively for other men, the people whom they admire, respect, adore, revere, honor, whom they imitate, idolize, and form profound attachments to, whom they are willing to teach, and from whom they are willing to learn, and whose respect, admiration, recognition, honor, reverence, and love they desire, those are, overwhelmingly, other men. In their relations with women, what passes for respect is kindness, generosity, or paternalism. What passes for honor is removal to the pedestal. From women, they want devotion, service, and sex. Heterosexual male culture is homoerotic, it is man-loving.”

KAYLA: That is some tea. 

SARAH: That is some tea. 

KAYLA: I'm first of all, so curious what the context was in The Bachelor Reddit that this person was sharing that. 

SARAH: Yeah. Truly.

KAYLA: How… it makes me wonder if it came up in The Bachelor or The Bachelorette. 

SARAH: Yeah. 

KAYLA: Because in The Bachelorette, it's one woman and, you know, 20 or so men, so the men are more around each other. If it's The Bachelor, it's just one man. So, to me, it'd make more sense if it was The Bachelorette. 

SARAH: But it says it was The Bachelor subreddit. 

KAYLA: Do they have separate subreddit? 

SARAH: I would guess so. 

KAYLA: Yeah, I suppose, probably. To me, it would make more sense, though, I think that that concept would actually be a very interesting lens to watch The Bachelorette through. Not that you often see the contestants interacting with each other that much in any deep way, but it makes me kind of wish that you could because it would be really interesting to look at the way that the men are trying to impress each other versus impress the one singular woman that's there.

SARAH: Yeah. You will not be surprised to hear that the book in which this essay was published in came out in 1983. 

KAYLA: I would not be surprised?

SARAH: You would not be surprised because all of that good stuff that seems like, oh, that's such a modern idea. No, it was feminist theorists. It was these people talking about it in the 70s and 80s. And then even now we're like, oh my god, shit. It's so true, nothing has changed

KAYLA: Yeah. They were doing a lot. They were doing a lot. They were doing much work back then.

SARAH: They so were. But I think that is a very apt observation. And I think it also speaks to the conflation of clearly Marilyn Fry, whether or not she did so knowingly is aware of this split. 

KAYLA: Yeah, 100%

SARAH: Not like she is considering the split model of attraction in talking about this. But I think it really speaks to the way that cis hets and allos generally, the conflation of sexual and romantic and any other type of attraction makes them think that, oh, if you want to have sex with women, that is the same, that puts you in one box. 

KAYLA: Yeah 

SARAH: Whereas as she is arguing here, I think quite clearly and quite well that fucking women and respecting women and liking women is not the same thing. 

KAYLA: Yeah, I think it posits something also very interesting about what romance and romantic attraction is, because I think the typical definition is, you know, you go on dates, it's very lovey-dovey, you hold hands, whatever. I think that's even a definition that you and I have used over the years. We've never really delved into things that she's talking about, about like respect, honor, interest, learning from someone.

SARAH: The love that they desire to receive. 

KAYLA: Right, yeah. And I think that is such a more kind of in-depth and mature way of looking at what romance is and what it should be. Not that those things are exclusive to romance either. Obviously, those are things that you should do and feel towards many people in your life, whether that's family or friendships or anything like that. But I just… I think that's such an interesting way to look at those relationships.

SARAH: Yeah, and I think what she says at the end here, which I had to kind of read a couple times before I was like, I get it. But especially what passes for honor. “In men's relationships with women, what passes for honor is removal from the pedestal.” So, saying, if a man removes you from a pedestal in a way where he's not completely objectifying you, people are like, oh, he honors and he respects me. But it's like just taking you off that pedestal is not the same as treating you as an equal. 

KAYLA: No, it's very, as always, the bar is so low. 

SARAH: The bar is in the basement.

KAYLA: The bar is so low. Which, yeah, is very interesting because the way that en masse men treat women would not fly if that is how they were treating other men. 

SARAH: Right. 

KAYLA: It would just, it's just would not be acceptable. 

SARAH: You can see a little part of the comment of what this person says after this, which I will read. Shout out to eating ketchup chips. 

KAYLA: Yes, Canadian. 

SARAH: Canadian? 

KAYLA: Canadians love a ketchup chip. 

SARAH: See, when I saw ketchup chip, I thought of like British people referring to fries as chips. 

KAYLA: Oh, I thought it meant like the, what do they call it? Full dressed chip or whatever. 

SARAH: Yeah, I think you're probably right. 

KAYLA: As always. 

SARAH: Okay. But eating ketchup chips says, “and may I add, who they choose to protect is almost exclusively men. A woman needs to share blood to be worthy of protection, but a man they knew for a couple of weeks deserves protection and…” and then it's cut off. 

KAYLA: I wonder if we Google it, if we could find this full-thread because I'm so interested. 

[00:10:00] 

SARAH: I bet we could 

KAYLA: I'm trying to go back in our texts to find when you sent this. Because…

SARAH: Do you want me to resend it? 

KAYLA: Yeah. Because I'm just so interested about the context in The Bachelor that this came up in. 

SARAH: Yeah. Reddit, The Bachelor, Eating ketchup chips.

KAYLA: Oh. 

SARAH: Marilyn Fry. 

KAYLA: She's a Google expert. 

SARAH: It looks like there aren't many great matches for your search. 

KAYLA: What? How could this be?

SARAH: What are you even talking about?

KAYLA: I wonder if you just went into the, are you in The Bachelor Reddit? 

SARAH: No, I just Googled it. 

KAYLA: So, I wonder if you went to The Bachelor Reddit and searched, I don't know how good the search feature in Reddit is.

SARAH: R/TheBachelor. I hit back and Reddit reverted to like 2008 HTML.

KAYLA: No. Okay. Not to completely blow-up eating ketchup chips spot…

SARAH: I found it

KAYLA: But I'm looking through like just all of their comments and posts and they are in so many feminism Reddit groups, just like breaking it down. It's so good. 

SARAH: Okay. I found the original post. 

KAYLA: Love. 

SARAH: It is a screenshot of an Instagram comment. 

KAYLA: Okay. Great. 

SARAH: And the person said, “big yikes on this comment from Jonathon, trigger warning.”

KAYLA: Who is Jonathan?

SARAH: I don't know. 

KAYLA: Okay. 

SARAH: Trigger warning. Also, he spells his name Jonathon, which is just wrong. 

KAYLA: Embarrassing 

SARAH: Sorry to any Jonathons out there, but your parents fucked you over. Unless you gave yourself that name. In which case, why? Okay. “Trigger warning in case anyone questions where Jonathon stands on the multitude of allegations against Marcus.” Here's what. Oh, his handle is @jiggetyjon. 

KAYLA: I don't think we can do that.

SARAH: Jiggity Jon says, “Marcus, you are one of the greatest men I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. You've become one of my best friends and I've gotten to know you better than many could ever imagine. The words that people have passed around with no validity, just hearsay has beaten me up to no end. You're an incredible man and I hope everyone who has ever doubted that gets a chance to know the real you like I have. I love you, dude. Prayer hands emoji. Keep striving for greatness. We're proud of you. Red heart emoji.” And Marcus Edward said, “love you, brother. Hand heart emoji.” 

KAYLA: Gay. 

SARAH: But I don't know what the allegations against Marcus are, but… 

KAYLA: Sure. We can only imagine. 

SARAH: We can only imagine. 

KAYLA: You know what this reminds me of? We watched a couple episodes of, I think it's called the Perfect Match on Netflix. It's a reality dating show and it's the one where they take…

SARAH: Oh, it’s sexual… Multiple women, multiple allegations of sexual assault. 

KAYLA: Yeah, that is unfortunately what I imagined it could be. 

SARAH: Yeah. Anyway, what?

KAYLA: Anyway, we've watched a couple episodes of Perfect Match, which is a Netflix reality dating show where they take stars from other Netflix reality shows and then they come on and they date and, you know, and there was this one guy that they brought on that everyone was like, oh my God, so dramatic. Like he's such a playboy. He's just like all over the place. Everyone hates him. And then there was this other guy they brought on and one of them stole the other guy's girl, like the girl cheated on one of them with the other. And so, everyone was like, oh my God, they're going to have this crazy beef. And this guy is just like so awful or whatever. And so, it was this whole buildup. And then they got in the show and they were like, oh yeah, man, we're like bros. We like love each other. Like, I don't care what he's done, blah, blah, blah. It was this whole thing. And then they were treating the girls in the show like shit, obviously, because of course they were. And it just makes me think of that because they just were completely willing to like look past all of this wild behavior. 

SARAH: Yeah

KAYLA: And this like weird stuff of a girl cheating on one with the other, like that was not, they were like, whatever, we love each other. 

SARAH: Yeah. One of the top comments on this post is “you can be an excellent friend to other men, but still traumatize women.” The quote, “my best friend, brother slash son could never do this.” My best friend slash brother, not my best friend brother 

KAYLA: Yes, brother son, yeah. 

SARAH: Could never… 

KAYLA: I love my brother son 

SARAH: “That my best friend, brother, son could never do this mentality is so frustrating to me. You don't see how this person acts behind closed doors with women.” 

KAYLA: I think there's also so many men though that do see it and just choose to ignore it because it's easier. 

SARAH: Yeah. 

KAYLA: Like even if they are not perpetuating bad behavior, they see their friends doing it and it's… they just let it happen. 

SARAH: It's so easy to be like, well, they've never been rude to me or mean to me or I've never seen it happen. 

KAYLA: Yes 

SARAH: So, it must not be real. 

KAYLA: Yeah, I feel like yeah, there's a big thing about it doesn't affect me personally. So, I'm just like, he's a great guy to me. He's so fun to hang out with with the guys and so it doesn't matter. 

SARAH: Exactly. The rest of eating ketchup chips is coming is only a little bit. It's “a woman needs to share blood to be worthy of protection, but a man they knew for a couple of weeks deserves protection and the benefit of the doubt after multiple credible SA allegations.” 

KAYLA: That is unfortunate. 

SARAH: But I think, all right, so okay. There's this weird… this is a bit of a pivot, but there's this weird thing where men are afraid of intimacy with other men because they think it makes them gay. 

KAYLA: Yes, but they're also obsessed with other men 

SARAH: But they're obsessed with other men and they… the love that they most crave is the love of their bros. But that love cannot be expressed in a way that's too gay. 

KAYLA: Yes

SARAH: It has to be expressed by like wrestling not in a homoerotic way, in a manly way.

KAYLA: Well, it's also it's often expressed very passively. 

SARAH: Yeah 

KAYLA: I forget where I read this or if it was an essay or something or maybe some research about how men's relationships are often side by side and women's are face to face. So, women bond by, you know, going out to lunch or whatever, sitting across the table from each other and talking about things. And men sit on the couch next to each other, do not make eye contact, watch the game. 

SARAH: Yeah. 

KAYLA: And maybe talk.

SARAH: Right. 

KAYLA: I feel like men's intimacy is expressed very vaguely and very in passing, which makes me kind of wonder if that's part of the reason they're constantly craving it is because it's never enough. 

SARAH: It's never enough, yeah

KAYLA: Because it always has to be expressed in such a minute manner.

SARAH: Yeah. 

KAYLA: Because women, I feel like when women are showing each other love, it's very superfluous. 

SARAH: Superfluous. 

KAYLA: Superfluous. It's like the women's bathroom at a bar where everyone is screaming at each other about how hot they look, like that is just what women's friendships are at all times.

SARAH: Yeah. 

KAYLA: If they're good or whatever, if that's the dynamic, whatever. And that is just like not how it is. 

SARAH: Yeah. I'm also… not to make this about K-pop, but I will. Just because the expectations of the way that men show intimacy in Korean culture is different, that's part of the reason why, A, there's from men who are being introduced to K-pop who are not of that culture, were not raised in that sort of society. They get a bit of culture shock being like, oh, they're all over each other, but they're just bros. But it also contributes to shipping culture because people in the West who don't see men act like that with each other in their day-to-day life, when they see men who really love each other and are openly affectionate and will openly say nice things to and about each other, the brain is like, well, that must be gay.

KAYLA: Yeah. I mean, I even catch myself doing that just day-to-day. If I have friends that are guys and they have their bros and they're very affectionate with each other, I will often find myself being like, oh my God, your boyfriend.

SARAH: Oh my God, that's gay. 

KAYLA: Which part of that is just, I love to call things gay. 

SARAH: Yeah. 

KAYLA: But also, I think it is an internal bias of just you don't see it as often. So then when you do, you make a little joke about it, which you really shouldn't do, because then that's probably going to make people close back up. And really, we just want everyone to be like that, you know? 

SARAH: Yeah. I think there's a line where it's silly and funny with the right audience, but with the wrong audience or with a not evolved enough audience. Whether or not at the point where they can see like, oh yes, that's silly. We're making fun of gender expectations and gender stereotypes and that sort of thing. Then it's like, oh, what? People get defensive. I never really, I hadn't thought too much about that about like shipping culture obviously exists in K-pop because shipping culture, it exists everywhere. Like, you know how much RPF there is about hockey players on the internet?

KAYLA: I love that. I love, one thing I love is telling the sportsmen on my TV to kiss.

[00:20:00]

SARAH: Here's the thing though. There are a lot of things that we kind of consider homoerotic about hockey, but they are like, hockey is kind of like the extreme of men letting out their emotions in terms of like the, I mean, you see this in football too, like the ass slapping and the bros doing whatever, but also the fact that you get into fistfights on the ice. It has two very far extremes of male emotions, which is love and excitement and anger.

KAYLA: Well, they do say that love and hate are closer to each other than they are to apathy.

SARAH: Yeah. Right

KAYLA: Like it's a circle type, you know what I mean?

SARAH: Yeah. In the context of hockey, you actually see men who are able to express their emotions in a somewhat healthy way, even if it's not like using their words.

KAYLA: Like big kids?

SARAH: Like big kids. And I wonder if because those emotions are actually openly expressed, I wonder if that has anything to do with why there's so much hockey RPF 

KAYLA: Interesting 

SARAH: RPF being real person fiction, like real person fan fiction. Like, I wonder if there's any correlation there or if I'm pulling shit out of my ass, could be both.

KAYLA: Who's to say? I mean, I do think it's interesting to think about, I think it's interesting to think about that men either have no physical contact with each other, or they are fully tackling, wrestling, playing sports.

SARAH: Yeah 

KAYLA: Like, is that why men like sports so much is because it's the only time they can have physical contact with other men in that hard, tactile way?

SARAH: There has been some theorizing about that. I don't know if there have been studies or shit, but I think there's definitely some truth in that. It's the only socially acceptable way to get those experiences and that…

KAYLA: Yeah, like the human touch, which everyone… not everyone, but most people to some extent need that kind of like tactile human to human touch.

SARAH: Yeah

KAYLA: That's so interesting. But it's also like, why do they feel comfortable doing it in that setting? Is it because it's such a masculine setting that it offsets it and you don't have to be self-conscious?

SARAH: Yeah, the setting feels masculine. It's competitive. It's very clearly in their minds. If it's a team sport, if it's like you're building a team and you're having these interactions with your teammates and you're giving them bro hugs and slapping their asses or whatever, in the context of a team that is so clearly telegraphed to the world as fraternity, as like, this is a brotherhood, this is whatever. And it's sports, so it's like, ‘masculine.’ It's using your masculinity, whatever. And so, I think they feel it is far enough from that gay shit that they feel safe from accusations of homosexuality.

KAYLA: So interesting. Men, what are y'all doing? 

SARAH: Men. Yeah. Do you think reading this quote from Marilyn Fry to a really like alpha male guy, what do you think his reaction would be? 

KAYLA: Okay, I think it really depends on the man. If you're talking about an evolved human. 

SARAH: I'm talking about alpha male. I'm talking about Giga Chad. 

KAYLA: Oh, that's not going to go well. Either this man is going to be too stupid to take in the large words that those are in.

SARAH: Yeah 

KAYLA: Because I feel like most alpha man Chads, I just view as like just meatheads.

SARAH: Yeah 

KAYLA: Or you have like an Elon Musk, Joe Rogan type who are clearly capable of some sort of higher thought. They have some level of intelligence in some arenas. 

SARAH: Yeah 

KAYLA: But those type of people I think are so insecure that they would just at least publicly immediately deny any of that. And then if they allow themselves to think about it in the privacy of their own homes, I think they would just shut it. 

SARAH: I was watching a video today. I didn't finish the whole thing, it was quite long, but I watched like at least an hour of it because what… 

KAYLA: What else?

SARAH: What else could I do with my time? Of Charlie Kirk, I think is his name. He's like a right-wing crazy from the internet.

KAYLA: Gross

SARAH: And it was a Jubilee video and it was like him versus 20 liberal college students.

KAYLA: Oh, I saw like two seconds where they were like running up to hit a buzzer

SARAH: Yeah 

KAYLA: I saw two seconds of that and I was like, I can't watch this, I can’t. 

SARAH: I watched most of it 

KAYLA: Good for you 

SARAH: And it was interesting seeing… because like basically they were all sitting around and then they'd be like, okay, here's the topic. We're going to talk about this topic for 20 minutes. As soon as the timer starts, they have to like race to get to the seat and whoever gets there first gets to debate him first. And at one point he did say something admittedly kind of funny, which was he was like, this setup is ableist.

KAYLA: Tea. Get him.

SARAH: Because I mean, also the people who were like behind him, they had further to go.

KAYLA: Yeah, it's not very fair.

SARAH: But then they would debate with him and everyone else had a red flag. And if they wanted a new debater, like if they wanted that person to be done, they would raise their red flag.

KAYLA: Interesting.

SARAH: And once half of them had raised their red flags, they had to switch speakers.

KAYLA: Yeah 

SARAH: So, like you got a good variety of people. And there was one guy there who was like, his like job is to just take down people on TikTok. And he was really going for it. He had some things to say. And there were some people who kind of like cracked under pressure. But like, here's the thing is like, guys like that, they know a lot about a very specific subject. And they know how to weaponize it. And they know how to just talk and talk and talk and talk. And like this guy kept asking, like really specific… one, one kid said he was an econ major. And so, he… this dude started like naming economists and was like, like, what do you know, like, tell me about like, what, like, as if saying like, oh, if you don't know this, then you're stupid.

KAYLA: Yeah, I yes, I think there's a definitely a very specific kind of man who is very good at circular conversation in that way. It's very a gaslighting thing to do of just not answering the question 

SARAH: And it's hard... It's hard to knock them out of that.

KAYLA: Yes. 

SARAH: And the one guy that was best at it was the guy who… also, it was easier for the men.

KAYLA: Oh, I'm sure.

SARAH: Because they felt more comfortable, like interrupting him and stopping him. 

KAYLA: Yeah

SARAH: And at one point, he was like, he called out this one guy, he was like, well, you're… it wasn't… it wasn't about being sarcastic. It was about being like, whatever. And he was like, I'm just matching your energy. Like, I'm… like, I saw the way that you talk to all these other people. And like, it showed like the girls who he had talked to when they were like, uh, like, he was like, I'm matching your energy. 

KAYLA: Yeah 

SARAH: But… and so, some of them did better than others. And a couple of them took themselves out before they got red flagged out, because they were like… There were also a couple of people who would always red flag people, but then never trying to try and go debate him. And it's like, well, then why?

KAYLA: Yeah, what are you doing?

SARAH: Anyway, um, it was interesting. It was very interesting. But like, you can see how convincing that kind of person can be, especially when they're not being challenged.

KAYLA: Yeah.

SARAH: And so like, I think if you brought this to like a Giga Chad, and you challenged them in this way, I feel like they would just completely reject it.

KAYLA: Yeah.

SARAH: Even if they were Charlie Kirk, whatever the fuck his name is, I don't care what his name is. Even if they were that guy, there's no way they would even bother to consider any of the thoughtfulness of any of it, which is frustrating. 

KAYLA: I know, it is

SARAH: Because like, you want to throw this at them and make them rethink but throwing this at them will not make them rethink. Like, you have to like, goad them into like dipping their toe into feminist theory.

KAYLA: Yeah.

SARAH: And then five years later, they're in the feminist theory hot tub and they're like, wait, how did I get here?

KAYLA: I think it's unfortunately far too woke for a lot of people. Because I also do think it takes a certain level of just nuance and understanding and cultural understanding of just like gender and sexuality and stuff like that, which is obviously those are topics we're embroiled in. But if you're a person who does not play in that space at all, like that's, it's probably going to be more difficult to decipher.

SARAH: Yeah. Also, it was wild because he kept talking about the existence of God and Christianity as fact. And there were people like challenging him being like, okay, well, what evidence do you have for that? And he was like, well, that's my belief. But then when they were saying stuff like, how do you define a woman? I define a woman as someone who identifies as a woman. He was like, well, that's not a definition, like blah, blah, blah. And I really wanted one of them to be like, well, that's my belief. 

KAYLA: That's my belief. What's the vine that's like, that's my opinion. 

[00:30:00]

SARAH: That's my opinion. 

KAYLA: Yeah.

SARAH: It was interesting. And the one guy who was best at debating with him was the approach he took was not taking the topic head on. It was taking an analogy and backing him into a corner on that analogy.

KAYLA: Interesting.

SARAH: And like that was the most effective thing. So, he would be bringing up things that weren't necessarily directly related, but you could draw parallels to. The topic was whether or not trans women are women. And home dog rolls up and he's like, and he starts talking about the gender of God. And he was like, so what gender is God? God is a man, right? We use he/him, we call him a man. But then motherfucker dude was like, his argument talking to someone previously was about how it's your genitalia essentially. And he was like, well, but God doesn't have a physical form. And he was like, well, Jesus is a man. And he was like, but before Jesus, God was still God. But why was God a man? You call God a man, but there's no body. And he was like, well, in the original whatever Bible, they use the word blah, blah, blah, which is technically genderless, but then when they blah, blah, blah. And so, he was like, so why do you call, so you call him, he/him, you use his, those are the preferred pronouns that you use for God. 

KAYLA: Well, not God’s preferred pronouns 

SARAH: And he was like, but God, he was like, God doesn't have a penis. And I… like that was, it was interesting that that was kind of the most effective thing at throwing him off his game. 

KAYLA: Men 

SARAH: When other people were struggling, and then he would just roll up, like at one point, someone was like, get so and so in there. Like, go, bro. 

KAYLA: That’s funny 

SARAH: It was funny because it reminded me slightly of the motherfucking Kamala Harris Donald Trump debate where it's like, finally, someone who has figured out how to deal with this. 

KAYLA: Yeah

SARAH: Once you figure out how to deal with these motherfuckers, you can trash them, you can send them to the ground, but you can't play their game. 

KAYLA: Yeah, it's hard because yeah, they're just doing their own. It's just completely…

SARAH: And in the case of telling a Giga Chad that they are heterosexual, but homoerotic, they sure won't be willing to play your game, I can tell you that

KAYLA: I don't think they're going to… I don't think they're going to like that one. 

SARAH: No. Um, do we have anything else to say?

KAYLA: Um

SARAH: Kayla is photographing a cat. 

KAYLA: She's so sweet. 

SARAH: Kitty. 

KAYLA: She's sweet. 

SARAH: That looks very nice. But I have a complaint about your new home. 

KAYLA: Yes. 

SARAH: In your old home, I could see your tapestry behind you when we were on Zoom. I need to stop doing a half-assed accent because then people are going to be like, that accent was really bad. And then I would have to be like, actually, I wasn't fully going for it. 

KAYLA: Actually…

SARAH: But also, I don't want to fully go for it because you'll judge me for that too. Anyway. 

KAYLA: Um, yes

SARAH: I could… I could see your tapestry, but now you can see your tapestry, which I'm sure is nice for you. 

KAYLA: Well, I have… here's what I'm thinking of hanging up where you could see it. 

SARAH: Gay. 

KAYLA: I have this pride flag where it looks like a stained glass window.

SARAH: Gaaaaaaay. 

KAYLA: But also, I share an office with Dean now. So, he usually uses like a fake background at work, but if not, he would just also look gay. 

SARAH: As he should. Gaaaaaay. 

KAYLA: I use the office more than he does. So, he's here as a guest, really, in my opinion. 

SARAH: It is your office. 

KAYLA: With special guest, Dean. 

SARAH: And if anyone asks about it, he can just tell them about how he's honoring the homoeroticism of heterosexual male culture. 

KAYLA: Of heterosexual men. Yeah. Let me tell you something about Dean. That man is fruity. So. The bi-wife energy is strong in that one. 

SARAH: Truly. I know a couple people who are like, unfortunately, I'm only attracted to men, but the men I am attracted to are always a little fruity. 

KAYLA: Yeah. I mean. Yeah. 

SARAH: Yeah. All right. Men. Get it together. Jesus Christ. 

KAYLA: Get it together. I'm very interested to hear the thoughts of men and former men. 

SARAH: And former men? 

KAYLA: Former men, on this topic. I feel like every time that we talk about men in topics like these, we always get such interesting comments just about men's experience dealing with other men. 

SARAH: Yeah. 

KAYLA: So, I'm very interested. Also, speaking of comments and such, we really should have done a whole episode about last names and changing them. Because we had so many… 

SARAH: There was a robust conversation. 

KAYLA: Yeah, a robust conversation just like on all platforms, people sending… 

SARAH: On all platforms? I just saw it on Discord. 

KAYLA: I think we had maybe one email, there was some, like a Discord or on Instagram message or two. But it was very interesting hearing what people's parents or families did with last names and experiences with changing names. 

SARAH: That's fun. 

KAYLA: Very interesting stuff. Yeah. 

SARAH: I noted in the Discord that I think Q is an underrated letter. 

KAYLA: I saw that. I think that if any of our listeners get married and are changing their last name, they need to send their reasons to Sarah for approval. 

SARAH: Perfect. 

KAYLA: Great. 

SARAH: Great. Well, I don't know if for approval is the best because I can't guarantee a prompt response.

KAYLA: Sure. Well, at least for looking over. 

SARAH: At least for my review, you know?

KAYLA: Yeah. 

SARAH: Or really do it far in advance before the actual event.

KAYLA: Yeah. As soon as you get engaged and decide what you're going to do.

SARAH: Exactly 

KAYLA: Yeah 

SARAH: Okay. Kayla, what is our poll for this week? 

KAYLA: Ooh 

SARAH: How homoerotic are the heterosexual men in your life?

KAYLA: In your life, hmm. Yeah. 

SARAH: Bold of you to think I have heterosexual men in my life.

KAYLA: I do, unfortunately, but I only keep the ones around that are woke. So, I don't think this would be... I don't think this is an issue for them. I think they, on the whole, respect women as much as straight men are possibly able to. 

SARAH: Yeah. This is not about straight men, but I recently was with renowned porn writer and guest of the pod, Dalton King. And…

KAYLA: Love him. Notably not a straight man. 

SARAH: Notably not a straight man. And he was saying something, it was about men, I don't know. And I was like, he was like, well, you know, how like, whatever, whoever does whatever. And I was like, Dalton, which is not his real name.

KAYLA: Not his real name. 

SARAH: I was like, bro, I don't know very many men. Like, I don't know men.

KAYLA: Good. And good for you. 

SARAH: He also taught me what a circuit party is.

KAYLA: I've definitely heard of that. I'm not remembering what it is, but I've heard of it.

SARAH: He was so shook that I didn't know what it was. And he was so shook that the artist formerly known as my roommate didn't know what it was. And there was another friend with us who was also a gay man and he didn't know what it was either. 

KAYLA: The only reason I know it is because I've heard drag queens talk about working circuit parties early in their careers, I think

SARAH: Interesting. 

KAYLA: I really don't, don't even remember what they are, so 

SARAH: Well, because the three of us didn't know what circuit parties were, including another gay man, Dalton King concluded that he must be a slut. And I said, you know what? 

KAYLA: I think we knew that.

SARAH: Good for you. 

KAYLA: I feel like we already knew that.

SARAH: The two genders, aro-ace and slut. 

KAYLA: And slut.

SARAH: And together we are friends. 

KAYLA: Love it.

SARAH: Ugh. All right. I guess that's our poll? 

KAYLA: Sure

SARAH: How homoerotic are the heterosexual men in your life? Kayla, what's your beef and your juice for this week?

KAYLA: My beef is that I started taking a class recently in an online graduate course.

SARAH: Oh. 

KAYLA: And so now I have homework again. And I forgot how that stinky. And it's a psychology course. And I also forgot that at the beginning of every psychology course, no matter what level of class it is, they will reteach you what an independent and dependent variable are. I also was taught the mean, median, mode and range. 

SARAH: And mode? Nice. Fourth grade?

KAYLA: It was just crazy. Fourth grade coming back with a vengeance. So, I had 80 pages to read this week. And they were textbook pages so you know those… it wasn’t too crazy

SARAH: Honestly, I think you learned that before fourth grade.

KAYLA: Probably. 

SARAH: You might learn that in like second grade.

KAYLA: It was 80 pages of shit like that. And I was like, hello.

SARAH: Horrid. 

KAYLA: That was hella fun.

SARAH: Sometimes I'm like, wouldn't it be fun to go back to school? And then I think about it and I'm like, no, it wouldn't. 

KAYLA: Yeah, I'm seeing how I feel about it. We'll see how I feel at the end of the semester about that journey 

[00:40:00]

SARAH: My mom is the kind of person who like when she retires, she just wants to like audit a billion classes. And I'm like, I respect that. 

KAYLA: Yeah 

SARAH: But the thing about auditing a class is you don't have to do the homework. 

KAYLA: That's true. I think the problem I'm currently having is I think if I went back to school full time, I would have a great time. But the fact that I have to balance homework and then my real life is just like not right. Because when you're in school, all you were doing is school. So, it didn't really… like, that was your job.

SARAH: You’re in school mode 

KAYLA: Yeah 

SARAH: And also, because we both did, we went to university, as they say, straight out of high school, like we only knew the 24/7 student grind. Like we had not been exposed to what it was like to work full time as an adult and go back to being a full-time student.

KAYLA: Yeah. So, it's definitely, we'll see. I'm just trying to keep, because I got very stressed out this week about it, but just been trying to remind myself that a lot of the people in the class are older than me and have like no psychology background at all. And they like have never wrote a research paper or anything. And that's something that we have to do. And I'm like, okay, if they're going to be able to do it, then certainly I who've, you know, I've been out of school for less time.

SARAH: You have a whole ass degree 

KAYLA: I have a whole ass degree. I'm like, certainly if they can do it, I have to be able to do it because I've already done it. 

SARAH: Yeah 

KAYLA: So, we'll see. Pray for me.

SARAH: Thoughts and prayer.

KAYLA: My Juice is the show on Netflix, The Perfect Couple. Have you heard of this program?

SARAH: The one that you mentioned earlier in this podcast?

KAYLA: No, that was Perfect Match.

SARAH: Oh my God.

KAYLA: This is Perfect Couple.

SARAH: Jesus Christ 

KAYLA: They're so different. So Perfect Match, the one from earlier is like reality dating show. This one, Perfect Couple, is a limited series starring Nicole Kidman. 

SARAH: Okay 

KAYLA: It's like six episodes an hour long, and it's the super-rich family in Nantucket and 

SARAH: Sounds like Nicole Kidman.

KAYLA: Yeah. And two of the characters are about to get married, and then there's a murder. And so, then the whole thing follows. Like, it's a whodunnit…

SARAH: I'm sorry, is this just Big Little Lies on the East Coast?

KAYLA: I don't really know much about Big Little Lies.

SARAH: I guess there's not a murder. Well, what the fuck happens in Big Little Lies?

KAYLA: I don't know. I've never seen it.

SARAH: All I can think of are the vibes.

KAYLA: I think it's probably those vibes.

SARAH: There's definitely crime.

KAYLA: It's probably those vibes, but I think it's very focused on the fact that in this show that it's a family. The family dynamic is a very big part of it. But it is so good. We finished it today. It's so good. It's also just hilarious because rich people acting crazy. It's just very funny. So, would recommend. A great program.

SARAH: Wow.

KAYLA: Nicole Kidman, as always, slayed.

SARAH: As always. As soon as you said her name, I wanted to quote the AMC video, and my brain just completely… I could not come up…

KAYLA: We come here.

SARAH: We…

KAYLA: I'm too tired.

SARAH: All I can think of is just her jumping over the puddle, and that's not quotable.

KAYLA: No, it's not.

SARAH: Because for a moment, we are, that's not the exciting part.

KAYLA: I was very honored, though, because my friend that told me about the show was like, oh, I just started watching it, it's so good. And I know how much you love Nicole Kidman. So, I had to tell you. And I was like, thank you so much, my brand, I do love Nicole Kidman

SARAH: I love that for you. Oh my God. First of all, the script of this ad is on genius.com, the lyrics website.

KAYLA: Perfect.

SARAH: As poetry.

KAYLA: We come to this place for magic.

SARAH: We come to this place for magic. We come to AMC theaters to laugh, to cry, to care. I can't do it, but imagine that I'm doing this in a half American, half Australian accent.

KAYLA: That really is how she talks.

SARAH: Because Nicole Kidman's accent is very confused about what it is.

KAYLA: Yeah, it's very in the middle.

SARAH: Yeah, apparently, she was born in Honolulu. Anyway, because we need that, all of us, that indescribable feeling we get when the lights begin to dim and we go somewhere we've never been before, not just entertained, but somehow reborn together. Dazzling images on a huge silver screen, sound that I can feel. Here it is. Somehow heartbreak feels good in a place like this.

KAYLA: Yes, that’s the best part

SARAH: Our heroes feel like the best part of us and stories feel perfect and powerful because here they are, they are.

KAYLA: When you're here, because when you're here, you're family.

SARAH: And then timpani roll. Outro. AMC theaters, we make movies better.

KAYLA: Brother.

SARAH: I love how it includes the timpani roll. There's an annotation. The inclusion of a timpani roll signals a dramatic and climactic moment, often used in orchestral music to build anticipation and highlight significance. In this context, it serves as a sonic punctuation that underscores the grandeur and importance of what has been said. It adds a theatrical element, enhancing the sense of occasion and making the final statements more impactful. The timpani roll acts as a bridge to the concluding lines, heightening the audience's attention and reinforcing the emotional conscendo, enhances delivery…

KAYLA: I’m going to take a nap 

SARAH: That's only about two thirds of this… 

KAYLA: Okay, I'll be here.

SARAH: Okay. 

KAYLA: You do what you need to do.

SARAH: Did you do both beef and juice?

KAYLA: Yes, I'm done.

SARAH: Great.

KAYLA: Continue on.

SARAH: My beef is that my AC broke. My juice is that it didn't happen at the beginning of the heatwave. Um, my beef is that Jonghyun is enlisting, they announced his enlistment date. My juice is nothing to smile about, there's no juice, he's leaving, he has to cut his beautiful princess hair, he is a baby girl and he's going to be in the military on his birthday. Oh my God, he's going to be in, he's going to be in like the first initial part on his birthday where he's not allowed to access his phone at all. 

KAYLA: How is he going to know it's his birthday?

SARAH: He won't know.

KAYLA: Who's going to tell him?

SARAH: Who's going to tell him? Anyway, you can tell us about your beef, your juice. Let us know on October 4th that it is you and Jonghyun's birthday, on our social media @soundsfakepod, we also have a Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod if you want to support us there. We have a new $2 Patreon, hashtag slay, it is Slothbird. 

KAYLA: Good name

SARAH: I love that. I have a question, because when you think of sloths, we think of like slow, but a bird, the wings have to be able to go fast to catch flight, right?

KAYLA: Or really big, right? If the wing is bigger, can it go slower?

SARAH: It can, but there has to be enough lift to get you off the ground to begin with.

KAYLA: Yeah. Yeah.

SARAH: Like that would only, if you can't move them fast and they're really big, you can only fly when it's really windy.

KAYLA: Maybe they only use their wings for descent. They'll climb up a tree to get up and they only use them like a glider.

SARAH: Yeah, like a sugar glider. Okay.

KAYLA: Yeah.

SARAH: Great. Slothbird. Okay. Thanks.

KAYLA: I'm so glad we figured that out.

SARAH: Our $5 patrons who we are promoting this week are Kathryn Bailey, Kelly, Leila, Liam Girard and Lily. Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this week are Parker, who would like to promote being a silly little guy, not a toxic little guy.

KAYLA: Exactly. Yes.

SARAH: Silly little guy. Phoenix Leodinh who would like to promote… or Phoenix, do you still want to promote the Trevor Project? That was what you promoted before you switched tiers and then you switched tiers and then you switched tiers again. Thoughts? Purple Hayes who would like to promote their friend's podcast, The Host Club. Barefoot Backpacker, who would like to promote their YouTube channel, rtwbarefoot, SongOStorm who would like to promote a healthy work-life balance and Val, who would like to promote... How the hell do you have a healthy work-life balance if you're also a student and you have a podcast?

KAYLA: Yeah, these are the questions, aren't they? The other thing I've been telling myself is that I have co-workers who are doing this program but also have children. So certainly, if they can have children and do it, I have to do it.

SARAH: You're the mother to two young books.

KAYLA: Two?

SARAH: You have two... Yes, you're the mother to two young books.

KAYLA: I've only written one, I think.

SARAH: No, no, no, no, no. Your books.

KAYLA: My cats?

SARAH: Yeah.

KAYLA: They’re books? Oh, that's right. On my Instagram, my funny jokes.

SARAH: They’re books. Wow, you didn't even recognize your own funny jokes.

KAYLA: It's because I'm so deep in the fiction, you know? Really living it. Yes, it's very time-consuming.

SARAH: Our other $10 patrons are Alastor, Alyson, Ani, Arcnes, Benjamin Ybarra, Bones, Celina Dobson, Clare Olsen, David Harris, Derick & Carissa, Elle Bitter, my Aunt Jeannie, Kayla’s dad, Maff and Martin Chiesl. Our $15 patrons are Ace, who would like to promote the writer Crystal Scherer, Andrew Hillum who would like to promote The Invisible Spectrum Podcast, Hector Murillo who would like to promote friends that are supportive, constructive, and help you grow as a better person, Nathaniel White who would like to promote NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com, Kayla’s Aunt Nina who would like to promote katemaggartart.com, Schnell who would like to promote accepting that everyone is different and that's awesome. Our $20 patrons are Dragonfly, Dr. Jacki Willenborg, and my mom, and we have a new one.

KAYLA: Do we?

SARAH: It's… oh, it's… this… it's French. I believe it's French Canadian because it was in Canadian money.

KAYLA: Okay.

[00:50:00]

SARAH: River Champeimont. Kayla, how do you… You took French. You took French.

KAYLA: I don’t know. I mean I have to… Send it to me.

SARAH: Yeah, I'm working on it. I'm working on it.

KAYLA: I have to say, though.

SARAH: Champeimont.

KAYLA: Champeimont?

SARAH: Champeimont.

KAYLA: I don't know. Last names are hard because it's like, that's not a real word, you know?

SARAH: It's Champeimont.

KAYLA: Champeimont?

SARAH: That's how I'm going to keep saying it until anyone cracks me. 

KAYLA: Great

SARAH: River, if that's wrong, let me know. If that's wrong, but you think it's funny and want me to keep doing it, also let me know.

KAYLA: Don’t say anything 

SARAH: River, if you would like to promote something, do tell us. It's sort of a weird thing that our $20 patrons don't really promote things of their own volition, but if you would like to promote something…

KAYLA: You can 

SARAH: This week you're promoting Dr. Jacki being Dr. Jacki. Um, also, because you're a $20 patron, I will assign you things to promote every week alongside the other $20 patrons, this week all of our $20 patrons are promoting the abolition of mandatory military service. Thanks for listening…

KAYLA: Oh my God

SARAH: Tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.

KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows.

[END OF TRANSCRIPT]