Sounds Fake But Okay
Sounds Fake But Okay
Ep 337: Beauty Standards
Hey what's up hello! Today we talk about the morning shed, appealing to various gazes, and other such beauty standard shenanigans.
Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/beauty-standards
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SARAH: Hey, what's up, hello! Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I'm Sarah, that's me.)
KAYLA: And a bi-demisexual girl, (that's me Kayla.)
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.
KAYLA: On today's episode, ‘Weird Beauty Trends.’
BOTH: Sounds Fake But Okay.
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod.
KAYLA: And what would you do if I told you that this week it is I that has the headache?
SARAH: What will we do?
KAYLA: I think it's our one brain cell that we bounce across the country to share.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And whoever has it, or maybe whoever doesn't have it… Did you have a good brain day? Because I didn't. Maybe you had the brain cell today and that's why I have a headache.
SARAH: I mean, I had enough of a ‘good brain day’ that I had the wherewithal to throw my phone on the floor when I was at work.
KAYLA: Okay, so I think you had a better day than me.
SARAH: I mean, that's also just what happens when I'm off my Adderall.
KAYLA: Yeah. Maybe neither of us had it. Where is it?
SARAH: Maybe Addie has it?
KAYLA: That can't be right.
SARAH: That can't be right, she couldn't get out of the room.
KAYLA: And it's certainly none of my cats either, so I don't know. If anyone sees a loose brain cell in the middle of the United States…
SARAH: It belongs to us
KAYLA: Let us know, we're missing one.
SARAH: Excellent. Kayla, do we have any housekeeping?
KAYLA: I don't think so.
SARAH: My child continues to be good. Oh, did I win the…
KAYLA: Oh
SARAH: Did I win?
KAYLA: Oh, you, by a landslide. But then also, I don't know if you've been in the Discord today.
SARAH: Not today.
KAYLA: It's Wednesday when we're recording this. Tort, a lovely member of our Discord, photoshopped pictures of me getting engaged to Adderall, not your cat, the drug. Because they were like, “maybe Kayla would have won if she had gotten engaged to Adderall instead.”
SARAH: Oh, I love it.
KAYLA: So, there are some extremely excellent pictures of me getting engaged to Adderall, the prescription drug. My favorite one is the one that the drugs are the ring.
SARAH: Oh, yeah, I just saw that, wow.
KAYLA: That one is really good. And my bracelet, too.
SARAH: And your bracelet. Oh, wow, that's just beautiful.
KAYLA: But yeah, you won in a landslide, which we all expected.
SARAH: It’s because my child is so cute.
KAYLA: It's true.
SARAH: She's so much cute. Jade Carey is gay? Hell, yeah.
KAYLA: Who is that? That sounds familiar.
SARAH: The gymnast.
KAYLA: Is that the blonde one?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Good for her.
SARAH: Hold on, I gotta tell my sister.
KAYLA: Breaking news.
SARAH: Literally, I found out because my friend Miranda texted, “Jade Carey, gay icon.” No, like no like attachments or anything.
KAYLA: No, just the news.
SARAH: Just the news. Just reporting the news. Okay. Kayla, what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: This week, we were talking about weird beauty trends. Specifically, I want to discuss the morning shed. I thought of this because today I saw a video of someone doing a morning shed. And I've seen a lot of these videos and we'll get into what that is in a second. But this one particularly stuck out to me because it was like a younger looking person, like probably a teenager doing a morning shed. And the caption was like, “this is why Gen Z looks younger than millennials.” And I said, “No, no, I think it's because Gen Z is younger.” But here is the thing. It was not the girl doing the morning shed that posted this, it was like a millennial reposting it.
SARAH: Okay, here, let me…
KAYLA: So, I don't know who… anyway, it really stuck out to me because I was like, “no, no, that's not why.”
SARAH: Here's a top tip, the reason Gen Z looks younger than millennials is because Gen Z are younger than millennials.
KAYLA: It's because they are.
SARAH: I hope this helps.
KAYLA: Yeah, it's because they are. So anyway, it really made me sit and think about that video for a while.
SARAH: I'm sure what they meant… Oh my god. Sorry, I just received another text about Jade Carey, “not the one white girl on Team USA being gay, so the whole team was MAGA's biggest DEI nightmare.”
KAYLA: Uh-oh.
SARAH: Ahh! Okay, sorry. Hello? What was I saying?
KAYLA: Well, we were discussing Gen Z being younger than millennials.
SARAH: Oh, right, right, right. I mean, I assume that what they meant was that Gen Z looks younger at their age than millennials did at their age.
KAYLA: I guess.
SARAH: But here's something that happens is, first of all, I disagree… well, teenagers look older than they used to.
KAYLA: Yes, but also so much younger. I see a teenager these days and I'm like, “that's a child.”
SARAH: A child. But compared to how we looked when we were their age.
KAYLA: Yes, because… yes.
SARAH: Because they have these examples of adults that they're trying to emulate, whereas we were trying to look like a cool 13-year-old, not a cool 19-year-old.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But I think part of it is that when you look back on your past, the fashions and the styles and the things are dated.
KAYLA: Yeah, so it makes you look younger
SARAH: It makes it look older
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Because you're like, “oh, that's clearly from 10, 15 years ago.”
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So that doesn't help.
KAYLA: No, but anyway, it really made me think about that video.
SARAH: Yeah, so let's tell the people, what's the morning shed? I haven't really watched a lot of content about this, I'm aware of it.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: I haven't watched any content because I find it disturbing, actually.
KAYLA: Yeah, I have definitely not sought out content like this, but I follow a decent amount of makeup people on TikTok because I like watching people do their makeup, I find it very soothing to myself.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: And I feel like those kind of people, when you watch that, this kind of stuff comes up in your algorithm.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: To me, what it seemed like the inception…
SARAH: Can you tell people what it is?
KAYLA: I'm getting there.
SARAH: Okay. It just seemed like you were going straight to the analysis.
KAYLA: No, I was going from how I thought the morning shed started, which is… okay, fine. I was going to describe it in one way, but now I'll describe it in a different way.
SARAH: Whatever makes you happy.
KAYLA: The morning shed is when people put a lot of beauty tools on their face and on their head before they go to sleep.
SARAH: Like stuff that stays on your face.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: To do various things, such as heatless curl, like roller, like curl roller. What are they called? Rollers.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Rollers. Whatever. You know, rollers for your hair.
SARAH: Mouth taping.
KAYLA: Mouth taping, nose taping, lip tint, like eyebrow tint.
SARAH: Like overnight masks.
KAYLA: Overnight face masks. Things like that. So, you put that all on before you go to bed, then somehow you sleep.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: We'll get into that because I'm not understanding that. And then in the morning, you're like, you take off, you shed all of your nasty layers and then you're like beautiful or whatever.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: What I was going to say…
SARAH: Sorry
KAYLA: Was that I first started seeing like overnight things as like overnight curls, that became a big thing.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Which is not a new thing. Like your grandma used to put in…
SARAH: That's what they used to do before they had heating.
KAYLA: Right. Your grandma used to put in curlers before she went to bed or like my grandma would tell me stories of people like putting beer in their hair to like make it stiff and then using like cans, like beer cans.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So, like this is not new, but people would use like the tie of like a bathrobe or like… that's how like… they were like socks. So, it was DIY and now there’s like actual products you can buy that are like silk kind of like tubes that you like put your hair around and then when you wake up, your hair like holds a curl.
SARAH: And you have the bendy ones that look like this.
KAYLA: Well, no one can see that, but yeah, that's true.
SARAH: I was holding up a fidget toy that looks like a worm.
KAYLA: So, I first saw that and then I started to see people do mouth taping, which I have heard is good for you, people just put tape over their mouths and it's supposed to help you like not mouth breathe and like help your nose be better or something and not snore, I don't know.
SARAH: But you still can breathe through your mouth because otherwise they would be liable for people dying.
KAYLA: That's probably true. So, I guess I don't really know what the point is.
SARAH: I don't really… people are like, “oh, mouth taping changed my life.” I feel like people have been like, “oh, mouth taping has fixed my jaw line.” And I'm like, “what does that mean?”
KAYLA: I have heard that… I understand it helping your breathing and snoring. ‘What does mouth tape do?’
SARAH: So, mouth taping is you literally just put like a… it's like a lip-shaped sort of thing.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: It is literally… it just… it looks like tape and there's like a little, I think there's like a little slot in the… like right in the middle in the front so that you don't suffocate.
KAYLA: So, the claims are, better night's sleep, prevents bad breath, snatches your jaw.
SARAH: How does it snatch your jaw?
KAYLA: So, the purpose of mouth taping is benefits to nasal breathing.
SARAH: Because it forces you to breathe through your nose more.
KAYLA: I guess. Which that makes sense because I don't think mouth breathing is like traditionally that good for you.
SARAH: No
KAYLA: I think the rest of it seems like a claim. Though I understand the dry mouth and bad breath, I can understand that if you are mouth breathing
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: The jaw thing, I really don't understand.
[00:10:00]
SARAH: Like how does taping your mouth shut make your jaw better or snatched?
KAYLA: I don't know if like having your mouth closed… but I'll tell you what, my jaw is always extremely closed when I sleep because I grind my teeth
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: And I don't think I have like the most snatched jaw.
SARAH: Yeah. I'm also a major teeth grinder.
KAYLA: Like I think my jaw could like stand to be more snatched.
SARAH: Yeah. I think my jaw could stand to be more snatched too.
KAYLA: And my mouth is like firmly closed when I'm sleeping, so.
SARAH: I mean, I guess your mouth could be open and you're still grinding?
KAYLA: I guess.
SARAH: I just…
KAYLA: So, anyway.
SARAH: Anyway, mouth taping.
KAYLA: Mouth taping. There's also… yeah, there's like masks that you like hook around… like face mask, but you like hook it around your ears so they stay. And I've seen a lot that just go on your jaw. So that's supposed to like snatch your jaw because it like pulls up that skin.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And then people use like a lip tint around like the outside of their lips. So, like, it looks like a lip liner. So, then you like rub it off when you wake up.
SARAH: Like around… like over lining their lips with lip tint?
KAYLA: Uh, I don't know, I guess. I always felt like, you know, how wherever you would put a lip liner, they put lip tint there so that it looks… it's like a natural lip liner.
SARAH: Okay, sure.
KAYLA: And then people do that with like an eyebrow tint too, you know?
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Anyway, that's the morning shed.
SARAH: How long does this take people?
KAYLA: It seems like a while.
SARAH: Because here's my thing, part of my problem, I'm not good at going to bed on purpose.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: And part of the reason I'm not good at going to bed on purpose is because I get overwhelmed by all the things I have to do before I go to bed.
KAYLA: Same, which is why I just don't do them when I go to bed with a dirty face and a dirty mouth.
SARAH: Yes, exactly. Exactly.
KAYLA: Yes, exactly. I just choose to ignore it.
SARAH: Like yesterday, I went to the gym and I did not wear makeup yesterday on account of I woke up really late. And when I get home from the gym, I have to take a shower before I eat. Otherwise, I won't take a shower.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: And before I was taking a shower, I was like, “Oh my God, I'm not wearing makeup. I can just get in the shower.” But the process of taking off the makeup seems like a lot to do. And then you got to do your skincare to make your skin tolerable. And like, I don't have like insecurity, but like it just takes a while. I also get distracted, even if it's not by my phone, even if my phone is in the other room, I always manage to have it take longer than it should. Because what am I doing? I don't know.
KAYLA: You have a lot to think about. I am the same way because I don't have a long routine. I have… brush my teeth, wash my face, which I was also taking off my makeup, put on under eye cream, put on face solution, put on eyelash serum, and that's it.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: And it's too much though, but it's too much.
SARAH: Take off makeup, wash face. I've started using retinol in the nighttime, I need to buy more because the kind that I don't like, I don't like, and the kind that I do like, I've run out of the sample size.
KAYLA: I see.
SARAH: And then I put moisturizer and then I put my serum and then I brush my teeth.
KAYLA: You're supposed to brush your teeth first.
SARAH: It's not always the same order.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: But I feel like usually I brush my teeth after.
KAYLA: You're not supposed to.
SARAH: Why?
KAYLA: Because then if like particle, like mouth particles get all over your face while you're brushing your teeth, you can wash them off.
SARAH: Okay. Well, I have bigger problems.
KAYLA: That's fair.
SARAH: And then I try and floss pretty often because I always be getting shit in my teeth, but it's not every day. Sometimes I use mouthwash and then I moisturize my lips and then I have to go crack my back.
KAYLA: Oh. Okay.
SARAH: It's an important step in the process.
KAYLA: Sure.
SARAH: But that's not that many things, but I'm like, “oh, I can do this in like 15 minutes.” And then it's like 45 minutes later and I'm like, “what am I doing?”
KAYLA: I couldn't say, I don't know.
SARAH: I don't know either.
KAYLA: That's very impressive.
SARAH: It's also partially just because I cannot estimate time and I have no sense of time. And even though I do the same thing every day, or I should be doing the same thing every day, I often don't do it. But like getting ready in the morning, I don't know how long it takes. Or I… in theory, I know it takes at least an hour for me to get ready for work in the morning, like start to finish, but I'll be like, “okay, I'm supposed to leave for work at 8:30, it's 7:45, I can sleep a couple of more minutes. What?
KAYLA: No, she can't. She actually can't.
SARAH: No. I'm like, “oh, I can just do it faster today.” No, I can't. I'm not capable.
KAYLA: Oh no.
SARAH: Anyway, that's not the point of this episode, these are just my grievances with myself.
KAYLA: So, the point I think of the morning shed is it's supposed to save you time in the morning.
SARAH: How?
KAYLA: But you think it wouldn't because you're doing all this like prep at night. So, like you don't have to curl your hair in the morning because you wake up and it's already curled.
SARAH: You have to fix it.
KAYLA: But really what you're doing is moving the time from the morning to the night.
SARAH: Yeah. Well, because I do that stuff at night and then I wake up in the morning and I still didn't do that much stuff in the morning, but I still have more things to do in the morning.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Because even if you shed all of your stuff off, you still need to like moisturize. I gotta wash my face. I gotta put my toner on. I gotta put my moisturizer on. I gotta put my eye cream on. Like that's not that many things, but you would still have to do most of those in addition to the morning shed.
KAYLA: I agree. I'm just telling you.
SARAH: Maybe you could kill the toner.
KAYLA: I'm just telling you what the people have said. Like the point… I guess the like face straps and shit, that's just at your jaw, whatever, that's just an added benefit.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: But things like overnight curls, like the lip tints and stuff, that's supposed to save you time, because it's like already done.
SARAH: Maybe a little bit, but like, and maybe the, also this is just me and my evolution in dealing with my own bangs, but like I used to try and like put my bangs in like a curler thing so that hopefully it would make it easier in the morning, but the thing is that it didn't.
KAYLA: Yeah. That… I mean, you are right that at least I've never done a heels curl, I don't need to do that, every day is a heels curl for me.
SARAH: Truly.
KAYLA: But the videos I've seen, like you do have to fix it. Like it doesn't just come out perfect, you do have to fuss with it, so.
SARAH: I used to like… because I can't have my… I don't want my bangs down on my face and when I sleep I can't have my hair down, like I don't like it. And so, I need to pull it out of my face, so I would use the like the bang curler to curl it so that it would be out of my face. But also, we would in theory be keeping the shape-ish that it's supposed to.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: But then I would wake up in the morning and it would still not be right and I would still have to get it wet again and redo it. So, then I was like, “why am I doing this?” So now I just let my bangs dry however they want and in the morning I just get them wet again and fix them. Anyway, this… again, not the point of this podcast.
KAYLA: This is just our routine, so you're welcome.
SARAH: Okay
KAYLA: What do we think? Okay, here's another thing I've thought recently about the morning shed is I had seen videos about it obviously, but hadn't put too much thought into it. But I feel like there was another morning shed I saw recently and maybe it was just like a particularly like egregious one where there was like a lot of layers, but I was just like… I feel like it made me feel like we were living in the future because I feel like you see like futuristic movies or whatever and they talk about like all these insane… like you see people doing all these like crazy things to their faces or like all these like… Like it just… the way it looks, I was like, “oh, we look weird.” Like we're… this is like… you know what I mean by that?
SARAH: I mean, we're in the future that humans imagine the future looks like.
KAYLA: I guess. I guess maybe that was it. Maybe that was it though. So, I was like, “oh, they were like, right, here we are in the future doing all this weird shit to make sure we look good.”
SARAH: Or are they right because it's a self-fulfilling prophecy?
KAYLA: I don't know. Either way, those were my thoughts. Does that make sense?
SARAH: I think so, yeah. It just seems like a lot to meet some beauty standards. The whole snatched jaw thing, like I get it, I understand.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But I feel like so much of it is pseudoscience.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Like gua shaing and stuff like definitely does have benefits.
KAYLA: But you have to do it every day.
SARAH: But you have to do it every day, they're not like a long-term like… and it's not like, “oh, if I gua sha every day for a month, I will be snatched forever.”
KAYLA: No
SARAH: Like as soon as you stop, it stops.
KAYLA: That's how all of these things are. Like I use like hair growth serum on my head sometimes and then like every day on my eyelashes because my eyelashes are just like fucked up from years of doing dance and wearing mascara or whatever, they're just like permanently stubbed now. But if I stop using it, my eyelashes do not stay long and healthy, they go back to being nasty and gross.
[00:20:00]
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like that's something that you have to do for life now, if that's how you want to look.
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: So that's just like, you're really putting in… it is time and money that you're putting in, if that's what you want to be doing.
SARAH: Yeah. And a lot of it, it's like doesn’t actually do anything.
KAYLA: Yeah. My eyelash serum, I'll tell you what, it's doing it. I'll tell you one thing that I believe in, it is the ordinary hair growth serums.
SARAH: Great.
KAYLA: Because they also make my dandruff better, that's not even on the bottle. It doesn't even say it'll do that, but it does.
SARAH: Hashtag non-spon.
KAYLA: Non-spon, will be though, that is the one… I will stand by that product alone.
SARAH: I don't think The Ordinary needs us.
KAYLA: They don't. And I don't like… listen, I have tried some of their products I don't like, their under-eye product doesn't work for me. I have the wrong types of eye bags. My eye bags don't need caffeine, they need vitamin C is what I've learned. Okay?
SARAH: Okay. Good to know.
KAYLA: So, I don't stand by that one personally. This has been my honest review of The Ordinary.
SARAH: Incredible.
KAYLA: Anyway.
SARAH: Yeah. There's just… I feel like people have, especially women have always done this though.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: Like if you like look back in the day, like the things that housewives would do or that housewives were expected to do, whether they did it or not, is another question.
KAYLA: Yeah. I don't think any of this is like new. It just looks different.
SARAH: Yeah. It just looks different. And when Kayla mentioned this as a possible topic, it reminded me, I was listening to a podcast the other day and they were talking about just like the evolution of makeup trends and how in like 2016, their trends were like put as much makeup on your face as possible
KAYLA: As much as you can fit, as much, that's true.
SARAH: And how that has changed a little bit, but also like the clean girl look now honestly still is a decent amount of products that you're putting on your face.
KAYLA: Oh, yeah
SARAH: It's just not all makeup, a lot of it is skincare
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: And they were talking about how when the pandemic hit and a lot of people stopped wearing makeup as regularly, these cosmetic companies were like, “how are we going to continue to make money?” And that's when the pivot to insane skincare really kind of took off.
KAYLA: Yeah. Or just like toned down makeup. Like in 2016 it was all like high coverage foundation, super pigmented eyeshadows, all that kind of stuff.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And now it's like a clear brow gel, a tinted sunscreen.
SARAH: Not even a BB cream anymore, it's just a tinted sunscreen
KAYLA: A tinted sunscreen, a light tinted sunscreen. Yeah, that does make a lot of sense because…
SARAH: Well, and it also used to be like, you want to be matte, everything matte, not a single shiny, shiny, but now it's like shiny, shiny
KAYLA: Yeah. Shiny, shiny. It is also very interesting… I remember when like makeup was like having its moment on YouTube in 2016, which is when I started like consuming makeup content. I remember…
SARAH: James Charles
KAYLA: I never was a James Charles girly.
SARAH: Me neither. But like that was… Like 2016 was James Charles’ peak.
KAYLA: That was the era, yes. I was a NikkieTutorials girly.
SARAH: Hell fucking yeah.
KAYLA: I did watch Jeffree Star for a while, regrettably.
SARAH: I was…
KAYLA: Before I understood what he had done.
SARAH: I had my like YouTuber phase a little bit before that.
KAYLA: Interesting.
SARAH: I was more of like an Ingrid Nilsen, Bethany Mota, Meredith Foster.
KAYLA: Yeah, that was before my time.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Anyway, I remember hearing those people talk about when they first got into makeup when they were younger, makeup just like was not in stores the way it is now.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: Like you would have to get it from Avon or like Mary Kay or whatever, you know, like they… Sephora and Ulta.
SARAH: You would have to go to the department store and they would have three options.
KAYLA: Yes. Right. And you would like have to talk to the people at the counter. Like it was not at the drug store, there was not accessible makeup stores like this. So, it just like wasn't as much of a thing. Like people were not into makeup that way. You would have like your tasteful little like work mascara and lipstick and that was like, whatever. And so that… but then, you know, makeup had its like huge blow up. And then yeah, what do you do? You start making all this money, there's all these companies, all these stores, and then the pandemic hits and it's like yeah, you have to keep going, somehow.
SARAH: Yeah. Like when you go from 2016 brows you can't go back to 2003 brows after that.
KAYLA: No
SARAH: First of all, you shouldn't.
KAYLA: First of all, we shouldn't be doing either of them.
SARAH: Just like ‘Goldilocks and the Three Bears’
KAYLA: It's true. Because that's the thing, is in 2003 they didn't need brow products, they barely had eyebrows at all.
SARAH: They would just… they would honestly… I'm surprised more of them didn't do like the Jenna Marbles just shave your eyebrows off and draw them on. But just like draw one line. You know?
KAYLA: Yeah. I mean, it looked like that's what they were doing. Certainly.
SARAH: Yeah, but a lot of them were like, plucked to oblivion. And then they had no…
KAYLA: No eyebrows
SARAH: Eyebrows, and then big bushy eyebrows came back in, and they were like, “fuck!”
KAYLA: “Now what are we gonna do?” That is interesting, though, because now there cannot be a makeup or like a beauty trend that does not have a product to go with it, you know?
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: So, like, thinking about like the clean girl aesthetic or like the no makeup makeup look, it necessitates products still, because they have to be selling them.
SARAH: Can you think of previous trends that did not necessitate products?
KAYLA: Like skinny brows?
SARAH: I mean, you still need a product for that.
KAYLA: A tweezer, I guess. But like, that's something that people just like have anyway.
SARAH: They would still fill them in, though, it would just be like a line, rather than...
KAYLA: I guess.
SARAH: I don't know, we were children.
KAYLA: I wasn't. Yeah. I don't know, but you know what I mean? Even when the trend becomes ‘no makeup,’ you have to be… there has to be something.
SARAH: Yeah. Now it's like, brow lamination, you gotta do this.
KAYLA: Right. Natural brows, you still need a clear gel for, no one's going to see it. But you need the clear gel.
SARAH: Exactly. Or if you're me, and your eyebrows are lighter than your other hair, you can't just do clear gel, you have to do like, whatever. I've never used boy brow, but that's like, people just refer to it as if it's like Kleenex or Band-Aid. Like it's just...
KAYLA: I use the elf brow, whatever, that's a little thing, and it's on the wand and you go do-do-do, that's my eyebrow product.
SARAH: I use the Anastasia wand.
KAYLA: Okay, bougie.
SARAH: They recently like changed it, though.
KAYLA: Oh, no
SARAH: The packaging changed and the new one has a smaller wand and it gets so much product on it and you have to like wipe it off.
KAYLA: That's not good.
SARAH: It's really annoying.
KAYLA: I'm very sorry to hear this.
SARAH: Also, they have tinted brow gels that have sparkles, that are sparkling, and I was like, “that's not what I want. I don't...”
KAYLA: It's like fun for one thing, I feel like.
SARAH: Like it's supposed to be like, low key, but I'm like, “but this is… I don't want sparkles in my eyebrows.”
KAYLA: That's very odd, that's when like under eye powder has sparkles, and I'm like, “no.”
SARAH: It's like, “oh, it's a shimmer.” It's like, “I don't want shimmering eyebrows either.”
KAYLA: Mm-mm.
SARAH: It's not what I'm going for.
KAYLA: Mm-mm
SARAH: Anyway, beauty standards.
KAYLA: It's all just capitalism, I fear.
SARAH: It's all just capitalism.
KAYLA: Remember when women didn't use to shave their legs and then the razor companies were like, “but we're only selling to men. How can we sell these to women?” Remember that?
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: That was crazy.
SARAH: You know what's really interesting? In K-pop, because I can always find a way.
KAYLA: I’m shocked. You know what's... Hold on.
SARAH: What?
KAYLA: Before we get into this, everyone is always clowning me about how much I used to talk about my feminism class years ago when we were in college. Everyone’s like, “oh, she brought it up all the time.” “Oh, surprised she didn't bring it up,” whatever. And no one is talking about how you bring up K-pop at every instance.
SARAH: I honestly don't think it's as frequent.
KAYLA: I disagree.
SARAH: When was the last time I brought up K-pop during the podcast?
KAYLA: What did we talk about last week? Oh, life events.
SARAH: Life
KAYLA: I'm sure you brought it up last time.
SARAH: I didn't. Anyway.
KAYLA: You bring it up to me in our personal lives every day, so.
SARAH: I think you're just annoyed about that.
KAYLA: It's possible, I suppose.
SARAH: But it's also a thing in K-pop for male idols to have to be like hairless cats. And so, people have very strong opinions and they get very feral when they're like, “that person is not a dolphin.” And I just thought of this because I saw a photo today of a K-pop idol and I don't even remember the context of the photo, it was just like a photo of them. And I noticed that he had armpit hair…
KAYLA: Oh, no
SARAH: And I was like, “whoa!” Like my initial reaction was like, “whoa! Is that allowed!?”
KAYLA: That's so odd, why aren't they allowed to have hair?
SARAH: I don't know. But then people get very excited when they do. So, then it's like a weird… there’s a weird dynamic happening.
KAYLA: Yeah. It's like… let's stop talking about it all the way around, maybe.
SARAH: Yeah. I don't know. But that’s… And I don't know that that's necessarily like a Korean beauty standard for men…
KAYLA: Or just K-pop?
[00:30:00]
SARAH: So much as it is a K-pop idol beauty standard. But sometimes I look at…
KAYLA: It’s so interesting
SARAH: I see them doing performances and I'm like, “who is your wax artist? They're really good.”
KAYLA: I'm always wondering this, when I'm watching swimming during the Olympics, I'm like, “what!?”
SARAH: Because like you can do laser, but laser isn't foolproof.
KAYLA: It's not permanent, you do have to keep redoing it every once in a while.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: I've always said that if I ever become rich, the first thing I will buy is just lasering my whole body.
SARAH: Including your head and your eyebrows?
KAYLA: No, not my head and my eyebrows.
SARAH: What about your eyelashes?
KAYLA: No.
SARAH: Okay.
KAYLA: Just everything else, I'm sick of it.
SARAH: You would be like a seal.
KAYLA: Yeah. It's not even… it's partly a beauty standard thing, but it's also like a mental illness thing where I be picking at my hairs and it has become a problem.
SARAH: You have got me doing that.
KAYLA: I know.
SARAH: It's your fault that I do that.
KAYLA: I know. I know. Anyway.
SARAH: Beauty standards are stupid.
KAYLA: They are stupid. And I was about to be like, “and men don't have any,” that's not true.
SARAH: No.
KAYLA: I can't really speak for other cultures, but…
SARAH: They're just different.
KAYLA: They're just different, like men have to be super buff now and tall and like all that stuff. But I don't know that it is so intertwined with capitalism for men other than perhaps a gym membership.
SARAH: Yeah. I think it's more about conveying masculinity and part of what masculinity is according to society, because what femininity is, is using all these products. It's doing the morning, I forgot what it's called.
KAYLA: Shed.
SARAH: Shed, I was going to call it a ‘peel.’
KAYLA: I like that better, ‘the morning peel.’
SARAH: It's doing the morning shed. It's having this huge skincare routine, like that is seen as feminine. So, I think men are like, “well, it must be masculine to not do that,” like to not take care of yourself.
KAYLA: I guess that's true. Men are supposed to still look a certain way, but do it without putting in any effort.
SARAH: Mm-hmm. And they can't be too hairy either.
KAYLA: Yes, that's true.
SARAH: If a man is too hairy, that's a problem.
KAYLA: Yeah. I just don't think… it's interesting that it's not as tied into capitalism, because then you have stereotypes about women of like, “oh, they're always spending all this money” or like, “oh, I have a girlfriend now, so I have to buy her all this shit,” whatever, like women taking men's money and whatever. But it's like, it's not fair because our beauty standards necessitate buying things when men's don't as much.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: I would be really interested to hear from people a perspective on like, if there are things men are spending money on that I'm not thinking of.
SARAH: That's the only thing I can think of is like bald…
KAYLA: Socks?
SARAH: I was going to say like balding products.
KAYLA: Oh, hair stuff. Viagra.
SARAH: Well, Viagra is not a beauty standard
KAYLA: In a way.
SARAH: It's a standard of masculinity, but it's not a beauty standard.
KAYLA: I suppose. No, the hair thing is a good thing though.
SARAH: No one's like, “ooh, that dick has got some Viagra, that dick looks...”
KAYLA: I don't know. Hey, who are we to know?
SARAH: “That dick looks Viagra good.”
KAYLA: Who are we to know? Okay.
SARAH: Anyway.
KAYLA: The hair one, yes, though. They do. Men do spend money on that.
SARAH: You have to lose your hair to get to that point, so it doesn't apply to everyone.
KAYLA: Not necessarily. I think if men were smart, they would start using preventative things before they lose their hair. They just don't think about it as much until it becomes an issue.
SARAH: Yeah. But there are some that don't, though. Like, my grandpa had a big old head of hair his whole life.
KAYLA: That's fair. Do you think Dean will go bald?
SARAH: I don't know.
KAYLA: He would look so different, I can't imagine him bald.
SARAH: How much hair does his dad have?
KAYLA: He keeps it pretty short, but he's not balding or anything.
SARAH: Mh
KAYLA: Isn’t it like your mom's dad or something, though?
SARAH: Well, if it's my mom's dad, then I'm never going bald.
KAYLA: Well, it's not… It was never about you, is the good thing.
SARAH: I don't know.
KAYLA: Anyway, should I ask Dean? Dean, do you think you'll go bald one day? You don't want to? Okay.
SARAH: He wants to be ginger for life.
KAYLA: Yeah, I asked if he thought he was going to go bald, and he said, “I hope not.” And I said, “you don't want to?” and he was like, “well, maybe when I'm like 70.” So, I guess there's… I don't know, okay.
SARAH: Sure.
KAYLA: Not much learned here. Sorry, everyone.
SARAH: I just think because women's beauty standards revolve so much around products and applying things to yourself to fix yourself
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And that men's is more about action, it's more about being fit.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: They don't want to be seen as feminine or womanly by having a 12-step skincare routine, even though they would all fucking benefit from it.
KAYLA: At least not a two-in-one shampoo-conditioner.
SARAH: At least two steps, my guy.
KAYLA: At least.
SARAH: There's a reason they're separate.
KAYLA: Dean doesn't use two-in-one, everyone, do not worry.
SARAH: You've changed him. Congratulations.
KAYLA: I don't know that he ever did.
SARAH: Oh, you've changed him.
KAYLA: He certainly doesn't now. Don't worry. Do not fear.
SARAH: Do not fear. Yeah. Because then if you have a man who's doing more skincare or doing whatever, like that's seen as gay.
KAYLA: Yes. That's true.
SARAH: And that is then reflecting on your gender and sexuality expression.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm. I'm trying to think, what are non-binary beauty standards?
SARAH: Septum piercing?
KAYLA: Septum!? You’re crazy. But you know what I mean? Like what's the…
SARAH: I think that's the… an almost impossible question to answer because there isn't one way to be non-binary because the whole point about non-binary is that it's outside of ye olde binary.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And you could say like the stereotypical non-binary presentation is like androgynous whatever.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: But even then, there isn't a standard because the point is that there's not a standard.
KAYLA: This is true.
SARAH: Like, if there's a non-binary person out there trying to establish a standard, they're not trying to establish a non-binary standard, they're trying to establish a third gender.
KAYLA: Yeah. Don't do that. That's fair. It just has me thinking… it has me going down a rabbit hole of like, say you are a trans person in the middle of transitioning and you are trying to pass, any sort of physical appearance transition is going to take work and products. So, it's just like interesting the thought of someone trying to appear more masculine as a trans person. You do have to put effort in and use products and whatever, which is against typical masculinity. So, it's like interesting to think about.
SARAH: Yeah, and that just plays into the masculine ideal that trans men aren't men, you know?
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Which is useless and dumb.
KAYLA: And wrong.
SARAH: But, I mean, anything that's outside of the cishet binary, even if you are appealing to… because, you know, like a lot of trans women, they get like facial feminization surgery. They get, you know, all sorts of things to look more stereotypically feminine, but because they are trans they're already queering the whole thing.
KAYLA: This is true. This is true. Much to consider.
SARAH: There was a TikTok filter going around where it was like, ‘we're going to tell whether your face is more feminine or masculine.’ And obviously, like, it's a TikTok filter, like it's not…
KAYLA: It’s not actually looking at your face.
SARAH: But there was one where this person, like, their face, they got super… it was very heavily leaning in the masculine direction. And then they backed the camera up so you could see their big titties, and it immediately switched.
KAYLA: Huh.
SARAH: And I was like, “so you're not looking at the face?”
KAYLA: So, we're not looking at the face?
SARAH: I did it, and it told me that I had a slightly more masculine face.
KAYLA: Hmm. That's fun.
SARAH: So that's what that TikTok filter told me.
KAYLA: Good to know.
SARAH: Great. Do you think there are aspec beauty standards?
KAYLA: Uhh.
SARAH: Purple hair?
KAYLA: I think there are aspec stereotypes
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: But I don't know that there's beauty standards.
SARAH: I almost feel like people who are queer, whether that's aspec or literally anything else, if they adhere too strictly to beauty standards, that almost seems to some people as being undercutting of their queerness.
KAYLA: Mh
SARAH: Even if the reason that they adhere to those standards is because they just like how that looks on them, it's so hard to disengage it from the society telling you that you should do this, you should do that. And so, anyone who is abiding by those stereotypes, it almost feels like… not that you're a bad queer person, but that there's something… you almost don't fit in as a queer person if you fit in too much with the cishet ideal of what you should look like.
KAYLA: Yeah, I feel like I see that, especially with super femme queer women of them being like, “well, how…”
[00:40:00]
SARAH: Lipstick lesbians, yeah.
KAYLA: “How do I flag to people that I'm queer when I look like this?” Because… yeah, I mean the stereotype for queer women is that they are not very feminine, but then also there is I think a tendency for a lot of queer people to queer how they look in some way
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Which is excellent and I love it, but not all people are going to want to do that. And so then how do you try to signal that you're part of that community and then feel like you fit in?
SARAH: Well, if you're a really femme queer woman and you get your nails done and they're long, but then you have to have the two of them so that they're not long
KAYLA: Short ones, yeah
SARAH: So, when you introduce yourself to people…
KAYLA: Oh, just say, “enchanté.”
SARAH: Do an enchanté thing where you present your hand to be kissed and then they'll say, “oh.”
KAYLA: “Oh.”
SARAH: And if they don't know, they'll be like, “oh, why are your nails different lengths?”
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And you'll be like,” oh, they broke.”
KAYLA: “They broke.” “Oh, no.”
SARAH: But if they know, they'll be like, “mm-hmm.”
KAYLA: “Mm-hmm.”
SARAH: “This is for sex reasons.”
KAYLA: “Mm-hmm.”
SARAH: “Mm.”
KAYLA: Ah, silliness.
SARAH: So, so silly time. Do we have anything else to say?
KAYLA: Mm, not really. I would be very interested to hear aspec people's thoughts on beauty standards like this because I think so much of beauty standards is often wrapped up in attracting other people.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: And so, I would wonder how attached people feel to beauty standards if that is not something they're worried about.
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: Because obviously there is going to still be some attachment, right? People care what they look like for a large variety of reasons, including just like wanting to feel good for themselves.
SARAH: Mm-hmm.
KAYLA: Which just makes me interested in if you take one aspect away, does it like reduce the motivation
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: By some amount? You know?
SARAH: Yeah. I think there's also just a maybe part of the reason why there is a stereotype that queer women are generally not more femme. The stereotype that they are more masc presenting is because they are not trying to appeal to men.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: And so, I think that that also brings up the question of, “oh, so if you are a femme lesbian, who are you trying to appeal to?” Like,” no, this is just what I want to fucking look like.”
KAYLA: “This is what I look like. Yeah.”
SARAH: “This is how I feel good. I don't know what the fuck I'm gonna tell you.” And that's also not to say that queer women can't also be attracted to femme women.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: The thing about queer women is that they're attracted to women.
KAYLA: Women. Imagine. Can you believe it?
SARAH: Wild. I saw a video the other day of this girl who, presumably straight, who was basically like, “this is how I dress if I'm dressing for the male gaze. And this is how I dress if I'm dressing for the female gaze.”
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Or… I don't know. I don't remember if she said female gaze or if she just said like for myself. I don't remember which one it was. But in the second one, she was wearing cargo loose pants. She was still wearing a crop top that like, you know, and it was interesting looking at the comments because people were saying, “you look so much more comfortable in the second.” Like, “you look more like yourself. I don't even know you, and you look more like yourself.” And it's… so much of beauty standards for women… You know what else it is? Ah, ooh. Epiphany.
KAYLA: Ah, ooh. Ah, ooh.
SARAH: Yeah. Ah, ooh. Anyway, epiphany. Female beauty standards are centered around what men want to see.
KAYLA: Yes.
SARAH: Male beauty standards are centered around what men want to see. Male beauty standards are not centered around what women want to see. Men might do things in order to appeal to women specifically, but male beauty standards are about portraying masculinity to other men.
KAYLA: To other men. Yeah. I can see that.
SARAH: And so, when queer women maybe do dress in a way to attract the attention of other queer women, that is groundbreaking. And that's important, it's important groundbreaking work.
KAYLA: Dressing not for the men is important groundbreaking work.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: I often say, and I feel like, I don't know if this is a controversial opinion, but I often talk about how Sabrina Carpenter to me is obviously extremely attractive and we all find her hot. Everyone of all genders, we all think she's hot because she is.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: But I find that she dresses and presents herself more for the female gaze than for men. Like obviously she is still wearing lingerie and short dresses or whatever on stage, but it is in a very playful, sleepover, girls’, girls’ way.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: And in contrast, I will see people like Tate McRae, who I don't really know much about, I just see videos of her sometimes. And she to me reminds me of 90s pop star Britney Spears vibes that are... She is dancing and presenting herself in a way that is explicitly sexual, in a way that seems to be for the attraction of men, not for the fellow girls. Do you know what I mean?
SARAH: Yeah. And then you have Chappell Roan, whose ass is always out.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: But that's an entirely different way
KAYLA: In a gay way.
SARAH: In a gay way.
KAYLA: Yes
SARAH: I also think the thing that I started getting to this point and then I got distracted, like five minutes ago, was I think aspec people, if they are not trying to attract anyone, or they are specifically trying... Not even like they're not actively trying to attract anyone, but they want to discourage the attention of other people, they might intentionally go against the beauty standards. And so sometimes I don't usually wear things that are very booby.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And some of that is for gender reasons, which is less about beauty standards, more about just like, “I don't like that.” But it's also about... You know that if you dress a certain way, you might get certain types of attention.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And if you want to avoid that, one way to help… women… AFAB people are always going to get fucking harassed, regardless of what you're wearing or what you're doing.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But if you're trying to avoid that, you might make certain choices to minimize it.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So, I've seen some videos recently about trans women being like, “wow, people really hate trans people.” And then them realizing that, no, they're just passing now, people hate women.
KAYLA: Oh, ugh.
SARAH: And so, they talk about the difference in the way that they are treated when they were male-presenting, versus transitioning, versus passing, how the way they are treated by society changes. And then the opposite for trans men being like, as soon as you become more passing as a man, society respects you more.
KAYLA: Yeah, imagine.
SARAH: And so, then people were in the comments like… like this trans woman was talking about getting treated like a woman by a man in public.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And all the comments were like, “I'm so sorry that happened to you, but congratulations?”
KAYLA: “Gender affirming! Yay!”
SARAH: “Gender affirming abuse!”
KAYLA: “Yay!”
SARAH: “Yay!” Anyway, that's all. Let's stop now. Kayla, what's… do you poll first? Yeah.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: What's our poll for this week?
KAYLA: How do you interact with beauty standards as an aspec person?
SARAH: Yeah, I'd be curious to know if there are people who like actively and intentionally push against the standards that are expected of their gender assigned at birth. Or if you are an aspec person who follows the stereotypes expected of your gender just because you want to. Do you feel like that influences how people interact with you, whether in queer spaces or outside of them?
KAYLA: Mh
SARAH: Kayla, what's your beef and your juice for this week?
KAYLA: My juice is, it's getting warmer, that's nice.
SARAH: Good.
KAYLA: Yep. My beef is, one beef I have is that I can feel my sciatica brewing. It has been gone for so long, but I can feel her in there, so I'm trying to do all my stretching so it doesn't… it just goes away, but I can feel her trying to come out.
SARAH: Oh, no
KAYLA: My other beef is that I have a lot of other beefs that I am not at liberty to discuss on the internet in a safe fashion, and that is very frustrating.
[00:50:00]
SARAH: Is this regarding your close friend's Instagram story today?
KAYLA: Yes, yes, it is. Yes, it is.
SARAH: Good.
KAYLA: And I just don't like being censored or having to censor myself, but here we are
SARAH: But here we are
KAYLA: And that is my beef, is that, just know, if you're ever like, “why isn't she beefing about this?” I am, silently.
SARAH: She is. Always. She's brewing.
KAYLA: Silently on my close friend's story.
SARAH: Much like her sciatica.
KAYLA: Much like my sciatica.
SARAH: Her thing's brewing.
KAYLA: It is brewing. Do not fear. It's there.
SARAH: Ugh, great. My Juice is the song ‘The Giver’ by Chappell Roan. It's a fucking banger.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm
SARAH: Kayla, do you think that a Democratic candidate is going to use it as their walkout song because of the whole like, ‘I get the job done’ thing?
KAYLA: I would love to see it.
SARAH: But not, you know, not consider…
KAYLA: But not realize what it's about?
SARAH: Yes.
KAYLA: Yes. I hope so. I sincerely hope so.
SARAH: Not realize that it is a song about lesbian sex?
KAYLA: I hope so. I sincerely hope so.
SARAH: Excellent. It's a bop and a banger. I have a playlist of songs that is called ‘Songs That Cure My Mental Illness.’ And I have, in fact, added it to that playlist because it does cure my mental illness.
KAYLA: That’s good.
SARAH: My beef is that I woke up this morning and I thought I had pink eye.
KAYLA: Throwback.
SARAH: I don't think I have pink eye. But there was…
KAYLA: You don't look like you have pink eye.
SARAH: Yeah. It was definitely very pink eye-ish this morning. It was goopy and red. And I was like, “oh no, I got a cat germ in my eye.” Because Ms. Thang really likes to get all up in my face. And her other favorite thing to do is to walk around and lay on my pillows. And I'm like, “you can walk around literally anywhere else, please. I'm slightly allergic to you.”
KAYLA: Not the pillows.
SARAH: I’m like, “Please.”
KAYLA: Anywhere but the pillows.
SARAH: But that's what she likes to do. In the morning, she comes and she'll hang out with me and she'll walk all over my face and then she'll try and sit right by my head and I'm like,” this is very sweet, but…”
KAYLA: We can't.
SARAH: “Girl.”
KAYLA: “We can't be doing that.”
SARAH: “We can't be doing that.” But she doesn't understand that.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And so, I thought I had pink eye this morning and so I had to wear my glasses all day, but then my eye was watering like a lot and then it kind of flushed itself out. So, I think there was just an allergen. My throat is starting to hurt, I've been coughing. I don't know if it's allergies. I don't know if it's seasonal allergies. I don't know if my body has realized that I'm allergic to my cat, which I am slightly allergic to my cat. And she does… because I lived with a cat for three years, but it wasn't a long hair cat and she is a long hair cat.
KAYLA: Yeah. She does have a lot of hair.
SARAH: And she does get in my face. So, like maybe I just need to start taking allergy medicine. But I don't know what… but yeah, that might be because I thought I had pink eye this morning. My juice is, I guess that I knock on wood, maybe don't have pink eye.
KAYLA: Huge.
SARAH: My other juice is that [Unclear: 00:53:14] ‘Carrot Land’ is tonight, which is why we have to stop this podcast now because I need to go to bed so I can wake up at 2 a.m.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: You can tell us about your beef, your juice, your opinions on mouth taping on our social media @soundsfakepod. We also have Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod if you want to support us there. We have a new $2 patron, it's Felicia. Thank you, Felicia.
KAYLA: Felicia.
SARAH: Thank you. Our $5 patrons who we are promoting this week are Sofia P, Tall_Darryl, Tom S, Tanner Shioshita, Vince Terranova, and Vishakh. Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this week are Eric, who I said last week, but Eric has told us what they want to promote, and they want to promote queer ASL, which that's cool.
KAYLA: I didn't know that was a thing, and I love it.
SARAH: That slaps, it's like how they used to have queer languages
KAYLA: What?
SARAH: In like the 60s and 70s. It was like slang, but it was basically its own dialect.
KAYLA: Oh, I didn’t know about that.
SARAH: And that was a way that gay men would identify each other.
KAYLA: Oh, that's fun.
SARAH: Yeah. And in some other languages, it was kind of… I don't know, I'm not educated. Anyway, Eric would like to promote queer ASL. My aunt Jeannie, who would like to promote Christopher’s Haven, Kayla's dad, who would like to promote JandiCreations.com, Maff, who would like to promote the ‘Don't Should’ Sweatshirt, and Martin Chiesl, who would like to promote his podcast, ‘Everyone's Special and No One Is.’ Our other $10 patrons are Olivia… no, I changed the text color, not the highlight color. Please change the highlight color. No, I did the text color again.
KAYLA: Much happening here.
SARAH: I hate that. Okay. Olivia O’Shea, Parker, Phoenix Leodinh, Purple Hayes, Barefoot Backpacker, SongOStorm, Val, Alastor, Alyson, Ani, Arcnes, Benjamin Ybarra, Bones, Celina Dobson, Clare Olsen, Derick & Carissa, Elle Bitter, and that's it. Our $15 patrons are Ace, who would like to promote the writer, Crystal Scherer, Andrew Hillum, who would like to promote ‘The Invisible Spectrum Podcast’, Hector Murillo, who would like to promote friends that are supportive, constructive, and help you grow as a better person, Nathaniel White, who would like to promote NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com, Kayla’s Aunt Nina, who would like to promote katemaggartart.com and Schnell, who would like to promote accepting that everyone is different and that's awesome. It would really be easier if I didn't say, would like to promote every time. I could just say, Nathaniel White, NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com.
KAYLA: Yep
SARAH: But my brain cell is somewhere over Arizona.
KAYLA: Oh, that's where it is?
SARAH: Our $20 patrons are Dragonfly, Dr. Jacki, my mom, River, and that's it. I don't know why I kept going, who would like to promote not getting pink eye from your cat.
KAYLA: Mm-hmm.
SARAH: To be clear, you can't get pink eye from a cat, but you can have pink eye caused by a cat. Thanks for listening. Tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears.
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows.
