Sounds Fake But Okay
Sounds Fake But Okay
Ep 354: Reddit Rabbit Hole (AITA) pt. 18
Hey what's up hello! This week we are back on our Reddit Rabbithole BS.
Episode Transcript: www.soundsfakepod.com/transcripts/reddit-rabbit-hole-aita-pt-18
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SARAH: Hey, what's up? Hello! Welcome to Sounds Fake But Okay, a podcast where an aro-ace girl (I'm Sarah, that's me.)
KAYLA: And a bi demisexual girl (That's me, Kayla.)
SARAH: Talk about all things to do with love, relationships, sexuality, and pretty much anything else we just don't understand.
KAYLA: On today's episode, ‘Reddit Rabbit Hole.’
BOTH: Sounds fake, but okay
SARAH: Welcome back to the pod.
KAYLA: We are here after putting you off for two days.
SARAH: Yep. We have put you off for two whole days.
KAYLA: We usually record on Wednesday night. And I said, “absolutely not.” Because it was just orientation at work. And so, I have been working so many hours
SARAH: Orienting the children
KAYLA: Orienting the children, that’s so delirious. So, we were like, “okay, Thursday,” which was yesterday.
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: And then we were like, “mh…”
SARAH: And then I said, “Wait a minute. I've just been informed by the powers that be that I don't have to go into work tomorrow.”
KAYLA: And neither… And I also didn't have to because orientation finished yesterday. So here we are…
SARAH: So, I said, “I have an idea”
KAYLA: On a lovely Friday afternoon.
SARAH: It's still morning for me, but just barely.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So, we've done it.
KAYLA: What a world.
SARAH: What a world. Kayla is awake.
KAYLA: The thing is, like I am, but I'm also like, it's the middle of the day, so, you'd think like, oh, Kayla is gonna be like, high energy in an episode, I'm still pretty fucking tired.
SARAH: Because you just oriented all of the children
KAYLA: I just had the most insane week, I'm so tired.
SARAH: The children had to be oriented and you had to be the one to do it, someone had to do it, and you took up that call.
KAYLA: You really don't know how true that is. The thing is that someone has to do it and there are only so few people who do it and one of them is me, I’m so tired. So, if you go to Harvard Law School, you're welcome, you've been oriented.
SARAH: Great.
KAYLA: I was kind of afraid. Every new class I'm always just like a little afraid, I'm like… the chances are obviously so low, it's not like that many people listen to this. And not that many people… I was gonna say not that many people go to Harvard Law, that's not true, it's one of the biggest law schools.
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: But I always get a little afraid.
SARAH: Yeah. Do we have any housekeeping?
KAYLA: I don't think so.
SARAH: Great
KAYLA: Great.
SARAH: Kayla, what are we talking about this week?
KAYLA: As we were sitting here five minutes ago, deciding what we were gonna discuss this week.
SARAH: Hey, it was maybe like 12 minutes ago, I was just saying shit before this podcast
KAYLA: Yeah, that's true.
SARAH: And Kayla was just waiting for me to stop.
KAYLA: And that's how usually it goes when we start, you know. I realized we haven't done a Reddit episode since May.
SARAH: Mm hmm.
KAYLA: Which has to be like a record for us at this point, so.
SARAH: We did listener lore two weeks ago, but we haven't done Reddit, so. Who is ready?
KAYLA: Me, I'm ready.
SARAH: I will begin with this one, this is a screenshot of a text.
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: I'm going to read the AITA first and then I will read you the content of the text.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: I, F, 15, nope, 18. I don't know…
KAYLA: Very different.
SARAH: Yeah, super different. I don't know how to read numbers. Okay. I’m F, 18, Irish and my boyfriend, M, 21 is English. He was over in Ireland with me and we went out last night with my boyfriend and some friends to a pub. I should read this in an Irish accent but I won't. The atmosphere was great, music was playing and someone put on Celtic Symphony, a song I've heard and sung my whole life growing up Irish. I do apologize if that's supposed to be ‘SEL-tik’ Symphony.
KAYLA: I can’t imagine it would be
SARAH: I used to always pronounce the word that like “SEL-tiks” because of the basketball team
KAYLA: The Celtics, yeah.
SARAH: And then I was told that maybe it actually is “KEL-tik” except for the basketball team.
KAYLA: It is as far as I'm aware.
SARAH: Yeah, it's kind of like how…
KAYLA: I don’t think the Celtics like [Silence 00:04:20]
SARAH: Yeah, I don't know. It's kind of like how in Michigan there's a town called Lake Orion. And that's how you pronounce it. And so, I thought that the thing in the sky, that's the belt, I thought it was pronounced ‘OR-ee-uhn’ It turns out it's pronounced ‘oh-RYE-uhn’ and the only thing that's pronounced ‘OR-ee-uhn’ is Lake Orion, Michigan.
KAYLA: Sounds about right.
SARAH: Anyway. Okay, someone put on Celtic Symphony, a song I've heard and sung my whole life growing up Irish, when it got to the line, “ooh ah up the 'RA” everyone started chanting it. Do you know what that means?
KAYLA: I have to assume it has something to do with hating British people.
SARAH: It does, yes
KAYLA: Right. So, 'RA technically stands for R.A., which is like the Republican Army or the Irish Republican Army. So, “up the 'RA” is basically like pro the Irish insurgency, essentially.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: To be, you know, independent and to not be beholden to the UK. And so, it's just a… okay.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So, when it got to the line, “ooh ah up the 'RA” everyone started chanting it. A minute later, my boyfriend leaned in, whispered, “you are and sound like a terrorist, just as much as the rest of the people here,” then got up and walked out, nothing else. I messaged him as he wasn't picking up my call and ended up breaking up with him. Am I overreacting or was that completely out of line? Now, let me read you these texts. OP says, “did you seriously storm out and call me a terrorist?” (Laughing emoji.) Like, crying laughing emoji.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: English boyfriend says, “I wasn't going to sit there listening to everyone chanting ooh ah up the 'RA, do you realize I'm British?” And OP goes, “get a hold of yourself for fuck's sake.” And the boyfriend says, “it's disrespectful.”
KAYLA: What? What!?
SARAH: And then the girlfriend says, “well, I don't know what to say to you. I don't think we should see each other anymore, especially with what you called me.”
KAYLA: I just... That is so wild. A terrorist?
SARAH: Yeah, that's crazy.
KAYLA: A terrorist.
SARAH: Did they bomb cars? Yes. Was OP, who is 18 years old, alive when any of that happened? No.
KAYLA: Right. Will you shut up, please? Oh, she has a mouse, very nice, thank you, you can stop screaming now. Um, hello?
SARAH: Also, are we not taking into consideration everything that the British have done to Ireland and its people?
KAYLA: Right. Like, are you really… like, we can't be surprised that they're upset. Like…
SARAH: No, not at all. This reminds me, so, my mom, she had… when she was in like middle school, she went to junior high, when she was in junior high, she had a pen pal in England.
KAYLA: Mh
SARAH: And one time my mom and my grandparents and my aunt went on a trip to England. And so, then when they were in England, they were like, “Hey, will we be able to just like drop by for a visit and like meet in person the pen pal?” And they were like, “yeah, of course.” So, they met and it was great. And when they left, they were like, “Oh, if you ever are in the States and you want to come by, you're welcome to.” And then the next summer, they were like, “we're sending our child to spend a month with you.”
KAYLA: Oh, a month!
SARAH: Maybe a whole summer? I don't know. It was at least a month.
KAYLA: Oh.
SARAH: And they were like, “that's not really what we meant, but okay.”
KAYLA: Sure.
SARAH: So, she came. And my family has a cottage up north to south of Mackinac in Michigan and in Mackinac by the bridge, there's Fort Michelin Mackinac, which was a Fort in the US revolutionary war.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Fought at by the US revolutionary soldiers against the Brits. And at Fort Michelin Mackinac, they do reenactments of like these encounters. And so they went, they were there and they saw one with this British girl who was a young teenager at most.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: And they were like doing the thing and this girl leans over to my mom and she goes, “are we the red coats?”
KAYLA: Ma’am!
SARAH: And you know what? That was actually a very formative experience for my mom because she was like, “that was one of the first times that I really like put myself in someone else's shoes and slammed them”
KAYLA: That's tough. That's tough.
SARAH: But the reason I bring this up is because it would be like, if that friend was like…
KAYLA: This is really disrespectful and you’re a terrorist
SARAH: This is really disrespectful and I can't ever speak to you again.
KAYLA: This is like an extreme example, but say there was a song, there are songs like this by slaves singing about like being enslaved.
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So, imagine you go to a pub or whatever, and people are singing that right now. And then you as a white person are like, “terrorism.”
SARAH: “Terrorism.”
KAYLA: “Why are you singing bad about me?” And it’s like, “well.”
[00:10:00]
SARAH: “They set a plantation on fire.” Oh, did they?
BOTH: Oooohhh.
KAYLA: It's like, “okay, yeah, we're going to sing about it, you fucking suck, so.”
SARAH: I saw a video recently that was this guy reacting to… he was like, “this is the funniest video I've ever seen.” And it cuts to this like podcast, bro on a podcast, being like, you know, you hear about like slaves in the United States or in, you know, wherever, like he seemed to be well versed on places that have had slavery in human history.
KAYLA: Okay, great
SARAH: He named a couple of them and he was like, you know, most places have, you know, have done slavery to some extent. And he was like, you know, you think about those slaves, you know, they worked, you know, sun up to sun down every single day of their lives and then he goes, so that's why I think, you know, why can't I?
KAYLA: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. This man was white, I'm sure. Right?
SARAH: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
KAYLA: Yeah. I can see him. I can see him.
SARAH: And I just… remarkable.
KAYLA: Wow.
SARAH: Anyway, I think it's unhinged that this… like, I'm sorry, if you're dating someone who's Irish and lives in Ireland.
KAYLA: Right. You have to know that people don't like you.
SARAH: Like this is a cross-cultural relationship.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Like, you know, sometimes like you'll see people who are like together and it's like, oh, you're creating peace between your cultures.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like someone who's Indian and someone who's Pakistani are together. Or like, I had a friend growing up who was Armenian and she said the one thing that she would never do is date a Turkish person.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Because like she just can't, like she can't.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: So, it's like that.
KAYLA: But he did it bad, he fucked it up.
SARAH: Yeah. He fucked it up.
KAYLA: Terrorism is so… that's crazy.
SARAH: That's so extreme. I think…
KAYLA: You could have just been like, “that made me kind of uncomfortable,” even that feels like… all right, get over it, guy.
SARAH: Right. Yeah.
KAYLA: But like, we didn't have to like go… like you had to do it in the middle of the thing and then just leave? Like…
SARAH: Right. Like maybe he could have just been like a little uncomfortable then like, you know, oh, yeah, okay.
KAYLA: Yeah. Wild.
SARAH: Wild. Is OP right for breaking up with him? I think on the spot is a little extreme.
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: I feel like you could have a further conversation about this.
KAYLA: Again, it depends how long you've been dating though. If this is like one month, then like, whatever
SARAH: Right. But he did come to visit her in Ireland.
KAYLA: That's like not that far though.
SARAH: I know, but it does involve like a flight.
KAYLA: I guess. I feel like that's just not a big deal over there though.
SARAH: Yeah. Well, for them they think that London and Manchester are far apart.
KAYLA: They don't understand, they don't understand.
SARAH: Anyway, I think breaking up with him on the spot is a little extreme. Like, I think we could have…
KAYLA: We could have talked
SARAH: We could try to have a mature conversation about this.
KAYLA: Yeah. Because yeah, all over text and like immediately…
SARAH: Yeah. But he...
KAYLA: That is pretty crazy.
SARAH: But he was being a little fucking baby.
KAYLA: Yeah, so.
SARAH: There's that. All right.
KAYLA: Next.
SARAH: Next. Let's see what else I've got. Okay, this one is relevant to me personally.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: And I think I will have, not to brag, but I will have a good perspective on this.
KAYLA: Oh, all right.
SARAH: I am nuanced.
KAYLA: I'll be the judge of that.
SARAH: My, 23, F, husband, 36, M.
KAYLA: 23 and 36?
SARAH: 23 and 26, but they're married.
KAYLA: Uh, not my favorite, not my favorite.
SARAH: If you were just dating, it wouldn't be my favorite, but I would be like, “okay.” But if you're married, like, how long have you been together?
KAYLA: Yeah. It's not my favorite.
SARAH: Not my favorite. But my, 23, F husband, 36, M will only eat ‘kiddie food’ and it's ruining our relationship.
KAYLA: Spell that for me.
SARAH: Kiddie, like kids, like K-I-D-D-I-E.
KAYLA: I didn't know if it was like cat.
SARAH: No, not kitty
KAYLA: A child. Okay.
SARAH: Kiddie.
KAYLA: Kitty
SARAH: Do you see why this is relevant to me?
KAYLA: Yes. I was just talking about your food habits to someone the other day. Oh, I was telling them about your peanut M&M thing.
SARAH: Mm, yeah. Classic. All right. My husband will only eat chicken nuggets, grilled cheese, and SpaghettiOs, that's it. When we go over to friends' places, he'll actually bring some SpaghettiOs to heat up in their microwave instead of eating anything else, even if our friends cooked a wonderful meal. Okay, at least he's not expecting them to provide the SpaghettiOs.
KAYLA: I know, that’s the thing, he’s bringing it
SARAH: If we go out somewhere to eat, he will only order chicken nuggets off the kids’ menu, if they don't have them, he just won't eat. Okay. My question, is it just chicken nuggets or will he eat like chicken tenders? Because a lot of times there are chicken tenders
KAYLA: I know
SARAH: As like an appetizer or on the adults’ menu, because I order that shit all the time.
KAYLA: She's aware.
SARAH: I ordered that shit on Tuesday, in a real-life situation. If I try to cook literally anything except one of his three food groups, he'll claim he's allergic to some random ingredient instead of just outright saying he doesn't want to eat it, he'll then try to guilt me for forgetting his allergies. Spoiler, we've been to the doctor and he's not allergic to anything. My husband just turned 36 this month, his food habits were sort of cute and acceptable when we were both in college and eating like trash. Both in college? Okay.
KAYLA: Both in college?
SARAH: He must have gone to…
KAYLA: Do you think she said her age wrong?
SARAH: No, there's context later.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: I'll get to it.
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: When we were both in college and eating like trash, but now I'm genuinely worried about his health. I also find myself avoiding any sort of dining situations with our friends, which is so much harder than it sounds. I've tried talking to him about his eating habits and he just brushes me off. Since I don't cook his meals, the only victory I've had in this situation, he doesn't think I have the right to dictate what he can and can't eat. I'm not his mother, I'm his wife, but I just want my husband, the man I love, to be healthy. My question, what did you have at your wedding?
KAYLA: Great question. Excellent question.
SARAH: Like did you not have a big wedding? Or did you have a big wedding and you served everyone SpaghettiOs? Or did you serve everyone else, ‘normal people food’ and your husband…
KAYLA: I wonder… I've seen some weddings where there's kids, they'll have specific kids’ meals.
SARAH: Yeah.
KAYLA: So, I wonder if he just got himself the kids’ meal.
SARAH: For expense, cheaper.
KAYLA: Cheaper.
SARAH: Okay. Edit. We met when I was 19 in my sophomore year of college. It seems like he just went to college quite late.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: So, if OP was 19, he would have been 32.
KAYLA: Honestly, given that context, the age gap doesn't bother me as much because I think what often upsets me about an age gap is that people are in different stages of their lives.
SARAH: I do think age-wise that is very different stages of your life, but you have this shared experience.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: Because like a 32-year-old is grown, a 19-year-old is not.
KAYLA: Yes, but I think like life stage-wise, if you're going back to college in your early thirties, to me that probably means you aren't in the best financial place, especially because you're now paying for college. Like the thing about the different stages of life and age gaps is it's often a huge money difference and that creates a power imbalance. So, if they're both in college, they're probably both like starting out a career or starting a new career and no one has money. So, it's like at least there's like some equality there.
SARAH: Right, there’s that, that’s fair. So, they got married after graduation and moved in together shortly after. I didn't realize how strict his diet was until after we were married. So, they never lived together before their marriage.
KAYLA: Well, and this is why I always say we should be living together first.
SARAH: Exactly. Let me… there's like an edit and response to comments and suggestions, but let me read some of the comments first.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: Oh, more information, relevant comments. This is from one of those posts that like conglomerates everything. So, it has all the tea.
KAYLA: It has everything we need.
SARAH: When asked about the age difference and when they started dating. So, they said we started dating when I was 19 and he was 32, looking back, I definitely wasn't mature enough for a serious relationship, but he has always been thoughtful and understanding, I never felt pressured to do anything I didn't want to do. And although the age difference was obviously noticeable, it never felt like I was being taken advantage of.
KAYLA: Okay.
SARAH: We met in college. He went back to get his degree after realizing his career was stagnant. We had a class together and ended up falling in love. Admittedly, I was kind of odd that an older man was interested in me, but he never made me feel pressured into anything. Even as small as drinking on my 21st birthday. I have a history of severe alcoholism in my family. We ended up going to a nice dance night instead of clubbing. He also completely stopped drinking without any prompting when he realized that I wasn't comfortable being around him when he was drunk.
KAYLA: Okay, work.
SARAH: That's a green flag. Oh, it doesn't have any other comments. Okay, whatever. Here's what the person is saying based off the comments. It does sound like ARFID. I don't know how you say it, it's an acronym. It's Avoidant/Restrictive Food Intake Disorder.
KAYLA: Yeah.
SARAH: This person says, “it does sound like ARFID, I agree that we need counseling, there's a good counseling center nearby that I found last night that offers couples therapy, I want to try them first. I'm going to bring it up tonight and really try and explain how much this issue bothers me and how at the very least we should discuss this with counselor to find a place where we're both happy.” Update. “I did it. I confronted him when he came home. I brought up ARFID, which he seemed very open to. He seemed sort of relieved that it's a fairly common disorder. Some of you absolutely called it. He explained that he was extremely embarrassed and defensive when I had tried bringing the issue up with him before. When I explained how much it hurt when he shut me down, he seemed genuinely surprised. He had no idea this issue was so important to me.”
[00:20:00]
SARAH: “I'll admit I did cry a bit as I told him how worried I am about him eating himself into an early grave. His foods are not healthy and by the end of our conversation, we both agreed to work together to overcome this. We'll be going to couples therapy this weekend at a local clinic. From there, we'll look into seeing a dietitian and a specialized counselor for his eating disorder. However, I called his mother while he was at work…”
KAYLA: Noooooo.
SARAH: “I asked her about his eating habits as a kid if there was any foods he sort of liked or anything he was really averse to. I like the idea of making weekly meal prep together so there's no surprises and we can collaborate on slowly introducing new foods. I was hoping this conversation would give me a good starting point when I talked with him. His mother was very sweet and told me all of the foods he even sort of would eat and everything he refused to, but she offhand mentioned that he has sensory processing issues due to his autism.”
KAYLA: Ah
SARAH: “I asked her to elaborate and she did. It turns out he was diagnosed with autism as a kid. He even went to an after-school physical therapist for many years to deal with sensory issues. He never told me any of this. When I spoke with him, I didn't know how to bring it up so I just didn't. I'm so worried he'll deny it or he'll get angry with me for speaking to his mother behind his back since he obviously doesn't want me to know. I want to stress that I never brought up autism with his mother. She mentioned it all on her own. I feel lied to and manipulated. I don't know how to bring it up with him because right now I'm just starting to process it. I'm angry that he never told me. His food issues are one thing but not telling me about his autism and seemingly intentionally keeping it from me as he didn't bother to mention it today either is another. It's more and more obvious that the man I married isn't who I think he is and has been lying to me for years. Right now, I'm telling myself to wait until counseling this weekend before confronting him. I don't want our conversation to be out of anger but I also don't know how I could ever trust him again if he was so willing to keep such a big secret from me.” Another edit, I feel like we've got a lot of updates here.
KAYLA: A lot of feelings here.
SARAH: How many slides is this? It's one, two… oh, oh, wow it's multiple posts, this is intense
KAYLA: Okay, strap in.
SARAH: Strap in. Okay. “I will bring this up in counseling but I'm not going to discuss it with him until then since I don't want to let my anger and hurt override my desire to help him. As some people stated it is possible he doesn't know about his autism. I really, really, really, hope that is the case.” That would be shitty of his mom though.
KAYLA: I want to pause here before we get into more updates. Okay, first of all, I called the autism thing because that's just like… it seems very obvious, that's something that like often comes with autism, is eating stuff like this. Like you, though you're undiagnosed but we have diagnosed you.
SARAH: Yes. That's part of the reason why I'm afraid that if I get tested and they tell me I'm not then I'm like, “oh, so this is just like a like a personal problem?” You know?
KAYLA: Yeah, but you could link it to your other mental illnesses so it wouldn't just be you, you know?
SARAH: We can find something to blame it on
KAYLA: We can find something else. I do understand that though. It is clear that he is very embarrassed by all of this.
SARAH: Yes, I relate to that, hardcore.
KAYLA: And so, like, to me I get that she's upset that he didn't tell her this but her going so far as to say like, “I don't know the man I married.”
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: That just… I just don't think… I just think that's an overreaction because even though you didn't know that he was diagnosed as an autistic person, he has been living with you and acting as himself for years
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: As the autistic person he is, he just never told you that label
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: So, it's not like he is a different person now
SARAH: On one hand I do think it's a little strange that it never came up
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: You've been together for four years, you're married, it is a little strange
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: However, he's not obligated to be like, “let me sit you down, I have to tell you something, I have autism”
KAYLA: Also, it doesn't seem like it's out of malice or to like try to change… try to trick her into thinking he's someone else
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: To me, it seems like this is something he's very insecure about
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: And that maybe isn't as big of a deal anymore now that he's older, you know, as a kid maybe he had to go to physical therapy or after school programs so it's maybe a bigger part of his life and maybe now it's…
SARAH: He's probably pretty good at masking at this point
KAYLA: Right. So, maybe it's just not something that's as prevalent in his life anymore besides this eating thing
SARAH: Right.
KAYLA: So, he's maybe just trying to like move past it
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: I don't know
SARAH: Yeah. I also think it's very possible that he… because this sounds like something I would do, not this whole thing but the thing I'm about to say, which is, he knows that he should have told her and been more upfront with her and never found the time or he just never got himself to do it and now feels extremely guilty that he didn't do that
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And so, in his mind the best way is to continue keeping it a ‘secret’
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Because he doesn't want her to find out that he like kept a secret even if it wasn't really like an intentional thing and he just like didn't know how to approach it or didn't know how to, you know, that sort of thing
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But also, OP, is saying like, “I really, really, I really hope he didn't know that he had autism,” but it's like… but that would make his mom really shitty
KAYLA: Yeah. But like, if he's going to after-school programs like how do you not…
SARAH: He has got to know
KAYLA: Like, what did you think you were going for then?
SARAH: Right, I know some people when they were kids have like not known that they were in like therapy, therapy
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But if you're in an after-school program to deal with sensory issues I think you would know
KAYLA: I would think so but I don't know
SARAH: I don’t know. Okay, so, this person, I'm not hurt because he has autism, I really couldn't care less, it doesn't change who he is as a person, but rather that he never told me about it, okay
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: A little while later, we have an update. “Well, it has been a lot longer than one week update that I promised, I could make excuses but I won't, for those of you who don't want to read my original post I asked for help with my husband's food preference issues…” blah blah blah blah, “he was diagnosed with autism…” blah blah blah, okay. “Some of the comments on my original post were not so kind, I got a lot of accusations that still hurt me, some just make me angry, particularly the person who commented simply, “please don't bully him,” he's my goddamn husband not a schoolyard friend, not a sibling, not a child and tantalizing him doesn't help his case at all. Moving on, I was very upset as he had never mentioned anything to me, we've discussed all sorts of medical issues together but his diagnosis never came up, I want to stress this, this isn't a matter of me not wanting to be married to an autistic man, this is a matter of my husband keeping something important from me and causing me a great deal of stress that could have been avoided if I was aware of his diagnosis, for example, I continuously pushed him to try new foods or attend concerts or visit loud amusement parks, I knew he wasn't particularly thrilled about any of those things but they're all very normal couple activities that I wanted us to experience together, had I been aware of his autism, I would have had a better understanding of how negatively these things affected him and made more of an effort to integrate things he liked with things I liked, maybe a smaller local band or a craft fair instead of an amusement park, I appreciate that but also, on one hand, I'm like, you should be considering what he likes when you ask him to do stuff, but on the other hand, it's a relationship, if you really want to do something…”
KAYLA: Yeah, that's my thing, it is like, I can understand, yeah, it's a relationship you have to make compromises and sometimes you have to do things that you don't really like to do because the other person likes to do them
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And if the only excuse is the person being like, “I just don't like it,” then it's like, “okay, well, we're gonna do it anyway, suck it up,” and then I'll do something I don't like. If there's a deeper thing of like it makes me uncomfortable…
SARAH: It makes me anxious, it makes me… yeah
KAYLA: Or like in pain or like it makes me really exhausted the next day, whatever, then that's like, okay, that is more… that's a better reason than just like, “ugh, I don't want to.”
SARAH: And it's something to consider more seriously when you're making plans
KAYLA: Yes, yeah
SARAH: Okay. So, update; “I confronted him about my conversation with his mother the night before our counseling appointment. I made sure to bring it up casually so I didn't become angry again, he tried to brush me off at first saying he didn't know what I was talking about.”
KAYLA: Not great
SARAH: “After talking for a bit he eventually confessed that he not only knew of the diagnosis but he deliberately kept it from me “
KAYLA: Ugh
SARAH: There's something in the way, he said something was his dream, I'm assuming he means like their relationship
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: And he didn't want to do anything to ruin our perfect relationship
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: “I explained to him how keeping this from me hurt me, I explained how I could have been there to support him instead of feeling like he needed to hide, he said he wasn't ashamed of it at all, he explained that it's just not something that affects him anymore. I again explained how it affects me but he didn't seem to care. I didn't show him the post I made but I used some of the advice from you all to try to explain why his autism really does in fact still affect his life, we went to bed upset. The next day he acted like nothing happened, we ate breakfast, he had chicken nuggets and went about our day.”
KAYLA: Oh, not for breakfast
SARAH: He only eats chicken nuggets
KAYLA: I guess, I hadn't…
SARAH: What was the other thing?
KAYLA: Actually, I don’t remember what the other thing was. I just hadn't thought about…
SARAH: Grilled cheese
KAYLA: Oh, I feel like grilled cheese is much more of a breakfast
SARAH: It is, it is
KAYLA: I feel like he's doing it wrong
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: You should do grilled cheese for breakfast
SARAH: SpaghettiOs for lunch
KAYLA: SpaghettiOs for lunch
SARAH: Chicken nuggets for dinner
KAYLA: Chicken nuggets for dinner, yeah
SARAH: I mean, he is getting carbs, protein as much as chicken nuggets are real protein because sometimes it’s like…
KAYLA: Not really vegetable though or fruit
SARAH: There's SpaghettiOs
KAYLA: I mean, that's so processed
SARAH: It's so processed and there's a lot of sugar in it, I would guess
KAYLA: I have to assume
SARAH: Yeah, anyway
KAYLA: Where's the fiber? Is there fiber in there? I feel like there's not enough fiber
SARAH: This man what he needs is some vegetables
KAYLA: Yes, yeah
[00:30:00]
SARAH: Okay. “And we went about our day, I kept expecting him to bring it up but he never did. I didn't have the nerve to bring it up again until later at the marriage counselor's office, I spoke to the counselor so as to not seem accusing and explained that this was an issue that bothered me, my husband actually laughed…”
KAYLA: Oh
SARAH: “And said he assumed I'd gotten over it by now, when I explained that no, I really hadn't, he got angry with me and stormed out. The counselor tried to mediate but it wasn't much use as my husband went to wait in the car, I was worried he'd leave without me, so, I cut the meeting short”
KAYLA: Ugh
SARAH: “Our ride home was quiet, it wasn't until we got home that I said I was worried he was keeping other things from me too, he said he'd been reading online about how women can't understand autism and therefore he didn't think it was important to tell me about it”
KAYLA: What!?
SARAH: “I said that was the weakest excuse I'd ever heard”
KAYLA: What!?
SARAH: “He then said that I'd leave him if I knew. I said, if I left him, it'd be because he's a liar”
KAYLA: Yeah, fair
SARAH: “I'm concerned about what online spaces he's in…”
KAYLA: Oh, yeah, who is saying that?
SARAH: “If he's in online spaces that are saying that women can't understand autism.”
KAYLA: That makes no sense on any level
SARAH: I can see why some like right-wing 4chan, 8chan, nerdy awkward men might try and convince other men of that
KAYLA: I guess, but like, aren't most… I mean most teachers are women. I have to assume that means that most like special ed teachers and therapists are women
SARAH: My mom is one of them
KAYLA: Right, exactly.
SARAH: Yeah, my mom said that like in her department at work there's one token man
KAYLA: Yeah, I would guess that's like pretty common in that industry, women also have autism, so
SARAH: Right. Also, it's also so silly to me to be like between women and men, it's women who can't understand this like nuanced…
KAYLA: Right, like if we’re gonna stereotype, I don’t think we’re doing it
SARAH: Not to shit on all men…
KAYLA: Not on this show!
SARAH: But they are often not in tune with their emotions
KAYLA: That's the thing, it is like, of every… there have been few people in my life who have been like autism deniers or just like, we are not gonna discuss that in life
SARAH: RFK Jr.
KAYLA: Right. And they're all men. All of the people I've interacted with in my life who have those issues with autism are all men, so. Because they just… yeah, it's like the emotions thing, it's the like… whatever. Anyway.
SARAH: Yeah. “Apparently, he told all of our mutual friends that he had just been diagnosed with autism and I was considering leaving him because of it. Now, many of our friends won't talk to me and act very cold when we run into each other in public, I don't know what else he has told them.”
KAYLA: Wait, what!? Oh, friends
SARAH: Friends, yes. So, he told the friends that he was only recently diagnosed
KAYLA: No, no
SARAH: And that she's considering leaving him because of that
KAYLA: No, come on
SARAH: Yeah. “I don't know what else he's told them, but I think he told someone I cheated on him, as a fake account has been commenting horrible things about me and my supposed sexual habits on all my Instagram posts.”
KAYLA: Oh my God!
SARAH: “I keep reporting them but then it seems like another just pops up in its place. I haven't decided if divorce is the right path, I know he has been browsing incel and other bitter male-centric websites, one of his friends is a self-described incel. So, I'm even more convinced that this isn't the man I married, I'm mostly just confused. I've been avoiding him at home and it feels like more of a roommate situation at this point, he doesn't really leave his den until it's time for work and then he's back in the den until bed. It seems like everything is messed up just from me wanting to help. I don't even know what to expect at this point, much less how to move on from here.” Edit, this is the last one
KAYLA: Okay
SARAH: “There are so many more comments than I anticipated, I'm trying to at least read through all of them…” blah blah blah, “shocked at the overwhelming support…” blah blah blah. “I'm going to be discussing divorce with a lawyer, I don't know how to bring it up with him but I'm past the point of caring, you're all right, I dread coming home to him in the evenings, I dread if he will miraculously want to talk, this isn't healthy for either of us, at the very least, sometime apart would be good. That's all for now, I don't think I'll update past this, but I'm already uncomfortable with how quickly this blew up, but I will be living elsewhere by the end of the month.”
KAYLA: That took so many turns
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Why… I'm so confused. Because I was going to be like, okay, it seems like he's still like pretty insecure about this and that's why he's like getting very defensive and like kind of nasty about it
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But then he did tell his friends that he’s autistic
SARAH: He lied to his friends. Well, yeah, he told his friends
KAYLA: Right, he lied, but I'm just saying like, clearly he's not so insecure about it that he won't tell anyone
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: Because he is telling people, granted he's telling them incorrect information
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: So, it's not like he doesn't want. Like, you know what I mean? Like, that can't even be the full… I'm so confused
SARAH: Yeah. So, this person's response says, “women can't understand autism so I hid it from my wife and when she found out I started a smear campaign against her.”
KAYLA: I'm so like… girl, what!?
SARAH: Okay, this person… I'm interested in this comment, it's because it says, “speaking as an autistic person, she reacted with the exact same degree of ableism that he thought she would, even though she denies being ableist, the smearing on his part was indisputably wrong though.”
KAYLA: What are they saying that she did that was ableist?
SARAH: My guess is that they felt that her trying to get him help with his eating habits was trying to ‘fix him’ that is my guess, they don't say
KAYLA: Mm
SARAH: However, I think first of all, OP is right in that because she didn't have all of the context…
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Like, it's not necessarily her fault that she went about it in a way that was less than ideal
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And I think this person is just mad that like she continued to view it as an issue once she found out he was autistic but like she was concerned about his health
KAYLA: That's the thing though, it is like, I don't think that's necessarily like a bad thing to try to resolve or to like work on
SARAH: Mm-hmm
KAYLA: Like, yes, obviously we should not be trying to cure people of their autism or whatever. Like, the organizations that come at it from that way are just like, that's not the way we should be thinking about it
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: But when you come at things like this, like, a lot of autistic people go to like physical therapy because they hold their bodies in ways physically that is just like hurtful to their bodies
SARAH: These eating habits I would describe them as a symptom of autism
KAYLA: Right
SARAH: Not a fundamental part that needs to be fixed
KAYLA: Right
SARAH: It is a result in many ways of the autism
KAYLA: Yeah, but it's like, if this is something that is actually impacting your health then we should try to work on that
SARAH: Our fit is an eating disorder
KAYLA: Right, yeah
SARAH: Yeah. And a lot of people are responding to that being like, I'm autistic and she was not being ableist, like, this person said, “my two brothers and I are autistic, she was not ableist, my parents worried about our food just like her but how is she supposed to know this was normal if he didn't tell her?”
KAYLA: Right
SARAH: “She could have also limited loud events and maybe gone to a dietitian earlier for help, we did and it helps.”
KAYLA: Yeah. I mean, that's the thing, if she had known earlier, she probably would have gone about this… like, she might not have been like as pushy about the food thing
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: Or like try to introduce new foods as like sporadically or like, you know, whatever, there's better ways to go about it and that's something a dietitian would work with you on, but like…
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: I don't know
SARAH: And this person says, “speaking as an autistic person myself, she reacted with understanding and care about the autism and reacted perfectly appropriately to being lied to, especially given that he lied to manipulate her so that she couldn't make an informed decision about marrying him because she's ‘his dream.’” I bet that was the thing that was…
KAYLA: Oh, his dream
SARAH: I bet that was the thing that was chopped off and I couldn't see, that she was his dream, which… And then when you bring in the age difference…
KAYLA: I was just thinking, you bring in the age difference, she was your dream? And that was the age difference? That is pretty tough
SARAH: Yeah. And then this person says, “I have autism too and to say that his actions are excusable all because of autism is insulting. Autism didn't make him a manipulative jerk and a horrible husband, he did that himself. We as humans have the power to overcome our flaws and challenges even ones caused by autism.” And then another person goes, “you're gonna say he's a predator because of his autism too?” Like…
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: So, yep.
KAYLA: Well…
SARAH: I can completely empathize with his eating problems
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And with his feeling embarrassed about it
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And with him… and I can also understand how that impacts the people around him because…
KAYLA: Sure
SARAH: I am constantly thinking about how my weird eating impacts the people around me, because when people are like, “oh, where do you want to go for dinner?” Like, I don't want to be a problem, but I also want to be able to eat
KAYLA: Right. But the thing is like, thinking about like… like, thinking about your interactions with other people, because I know what your eating habits are and I know what I like to eat, it's something that like when I was visiting you, forever ago, when we were recording the audiobook, that was something I was like, okay, here are the places that like I would be interested in eating and I'm gonna look at like are these places that Sarah could eat, and we talked about, like, “okay, would you be okay here?”
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: That's something that you can like have a discussion about and be like let's come to a consensus on a place that we're both going to be happy
SARAH: Right
KAYLA: But you can't do that without the information about what's happening, you know?
SARAH: I also think… because at the beginning she talked about how like if they go to their friends’ house, like, he won't eat the food that's provided and like I get that, there's nothing I fear more… especially… like, I've never been invited to like a dinner party, like a formal
[00:40:00]
KAYLA: Sure
SARAH: But like I have never been in a situation where I have to go somewhere where I know they do not know about my eating habits and I know there will not be options
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: But like that would be an extremely stressful situation
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: If someone was like, “you're invited to my home for dinner, we will be making dinner.” And then they're like, “oh, do you have any food allergies?” And like you can't be like, “well, I'm a problem.” So, like in that case I would probably just say like, “oh, I don't eat red meat.” Like, that's probably the extent of what I would tell them
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Um, and… [Silence 00:40:40] aarrghhhh
KAYLA: I think you should put in the sound effect that's like the static or like the beep, you know?
SARAH: Mm. Okay, everyone, let me tell you what just happened, we were recording this podcast, we had gotten to the end
KAYLA: We finished all the way
SARAH: We finished the whole thing, we did the whole thing
KAYLA: We did the whole thing
SARAH: And then I looked at my file and after about 45 minutes or so
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: The sound waves just stopped; it kept recording, but it recorded nothing
KAYLA: Just silence
SARAH: Just silence. And I didn't notice this because that part of the screen was covered by the things on my screen that I was looking at for the end of the podcast and the counter was still counting up because it kept recording but it recorded nothing
KAYLA: Betrayed
SARAH: So, you know, there is some discourse that we had at the end of that podcast that you will never hear, it is lost to the ether
KAYLA: We'll never know
SARAH: You’ll never know
KAYLA: It's honestly extremely impressive that this is only like the second time we've ever lost audio, we once lost an entire episode
SARAH: We lost an entire half
KAYLA: Entire half of the episode
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: And now we've lost 20 minutes, having done this for eight years, that's extremely impressive that we've had so few technical issues like that, knock on wood, like, that's extremely impressive
SARAH: I guess. Anyway, here we are to do the end of the episode again
KAYLA: Here we are, what did we say?
SARAH: I said some really, really insightful things and you won't know what they are
KAYLA: Briefly, what we discussed was Sarah's understanding of the food issues because Sarah is too a person with restrictive eating
SARAH: I think some of that will make it in but then I get cut off in the middle of a word
KAYLA: Oh, well, okay
SARAH: Yeah. Anyway, I can relate but also, girl…
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Girl…
KAYLA: TLDR, relatable, but why did it have to be like that?
SARAH: But why did it have to be…
BOTH: Like that
SARAH: Okay, Kayla, what's your beef? No, what's our poll?
KAYLA: What's our poll? Okay, I had decided that our poll would be, do you think that both of those… we only covered two posts today
SARAH: We only covered two posts in this episode
KAYLA: And they both resulted in ended relationships. So, do you think that that is the way it should have gone? Should both of the relationships have ended or do you think a different outcome should have been reached?
SARAH: If you think they were recoverable up until a certain point
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: Up until what point were they recoverable?
KAYLA: Because I do think that there was… for the second one…
SARAH: Before he went scorched earth
KAYLA: Yeah, on his side, but on her side I don't know what else she could have done.
SARAH: It was totally fine up until she called his mom and it's not her fault
KAYLA: Yes, yeah
SARAH: Because she was just like trying to be helpful
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And his mom didn't seem to know that she didn't know that…
KAYLA: Which is another thing, is if you're gonna go so far as to lie, you need to tell your mom to lie with you
SARAH: Yeah
KAYLA: Because then how is she…
SARAH: How is she supposed to know?
KAYLA: Because something like this was inevitable
SARAH: Yeah
BOTH: Anyway
SARAH: So, yeah, tell us what you think about that. Kayla, what's your beef and your juice for this week?
KAYLA: Okay. My beef is that this week was very, very, long
SARAH: I'm gonna pretend this is new information to me
KAYLA: Right. Oh, no! I'm very tired, but my juice is that this week is over
SARAH: Hell yeah
KAYLA: And my other juice is that I like Sabrina Carpenter's new album which came out today, the day recording, to which Sarah said, “I've only listened to part of one song.”
SARAH: Yep
KAYLA: And I said, “it's really weird,” I think, and different from her last album, but it's weird in a way that I like. And then I said, “it reminds me of Fun's album ‘Some Nights’ which Jack Antonoff was part of Fun and that album is also very odd but I really liked it and it was my favorite album in high school
SARAH: And the we had a sidebar about our cultural exchange
KAYLA: Right. So, every week Sarah and I do a cultural exchange where we pick a theme and then each send each other a song so that we could share our music taste and we got confused about whose turn it was to pick a theme
SARAH: Uh-huh
KAYLA: Because two weeks ago, I, my song was a Fun song
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: From the album, ‘Some Nights’ and then we determined it was Sarah's turn and the playlist was out of order which is why we were confused
SARAH: Confused
KAYLA: But it is Sarah's turn
SARAH: And then I asked if she had ever discovered a song via fan fiction and she said that if she did, she didn't remember what song it was and she it ruined everything
KAYLA: Yeah. So, now, Sarah has to find a new theme
SARAH: I have a list but… we’ll see. Okay, anyway…
KAYLA: And then now it's Sarah's turn
SARAH: No, you didn't do your juice
KAYLA: I did
SARAH: Oh, yeah, you did, you just did it faster. My… okay, so, initially…
KAYLA: Right
SARAH: Initially my juice is that I'm going to two birthday parties this weekend, but when I say going to, I'm only going to one of them, the other one is at my house, which brings me to my beef, my beef is that… so, everyone's favorite former porn writer Dalton King, it is his birthday this weekend. Happy birthday Dalton King! He has the exact same birthday as Jungkook, same day, same year
KAYLA: Wow
SARAH: And so, he's having a birthday party this weekend but his home is not… you cannot host a party where he lives. So, he asked if we could host it at my house and I said, sure, but the problem is that now I have to clean my whole house, I don't know, that's tough
KAYLA: Yep
SARAH: It's tough for me. My other beef is that we lost 20 minutes of podcast
BOTH: In the arms of the angel fly away from here
SARAH: I really can't wait to see how that sounds
KAYLA: That's gonna be good audio
SARAH: Huhuuuu, okay. You can tell us about your beef, your juice, your thoughts on those relationships on our social media @soundsfakepod. We also have a Patreon, patreon.com/soundsfakepod. Our $5 patrons who we are promoting this week are SammyO, Scott Ainslie, Simon, and Snordstorm. We also have a new one, it's Rick Turpin
KAYLA: Riiiiiiiiick
SARAH: And I said that your name was fun, I think your name is fun and I said thank you
KAYLA: And I said, “Riiiiiiiick”
SARAH: Yep, just like that. Our $10 patrons who are promoting something this week are Alastor who would like to promote the podcast 'Shadows and Shenanigans', Ani who would like to promote the importance of being kind to yourself and others, Arcnes who would like to promote the Trevor project, and Benjamin Ybarra who would like to promote Tabletop games. Our other…
KAYLA: And at this point what you miss is that Sarah said that the…
SARAH: No, I have the Quartertone update
KAYLA: No, but Tabletop games, there was a sidebar for that
SARAH: Right. There was a sidebar, I went to a bar that…
KAYLA: I don't want them to miss this really important content
SARAH: I went to a bar that has board games
KAYLA: Yeah
SARAH: And I was sat at a table, we were outside next to a group of nine large men who were playing a game mostly silently
KAYLA: Yeah and…
SARAH: We had a sidebar about chicken tenders
KAYLA: Yeah. And then I said that I recently went to a ping pong bar and it was like a bowling alley
SARAH: Yes
KAYLA: But you played ping pong and it was really nice because you didn't have to run after your balls after like they went away because they just gave you a big bucket and they picked up the balls with this stick thing and then gave them back to you
SARAH: And then my question was, how much do those people get paid? The ball picker-uppers
KAYLA: I don't know
SARAH: I hope it's a lot
KAYLA: Honestly though, I hope everyone in that place gets a lot of money because the balls are just flying all around and these people are like serving us food and drinks. And so, I felt so bad for the servers because they were just like dodging ping pong balls that were flying everywhere just trying to serve like drunk people their food and drinks
SARAH: Do you think they have like a secret game of beer pong where like if they're busing someone…
KAYLA: I hope so
SARAH: Like, if they can catch a ping pong ball in someone's cup that they're bringing back, you know
KAYLA: That’s fun. We did have at least once someone got a ping pong ball in someone's drink on accident, so, that was fun
SARAH: Oh, hello!? Hello!? Okay. It's still working, it just beeped in my ear for some reason
KAYLA: Oh, good
SARAH: Anyway, well, you got all that extra. Also, I wanted to say that Quartertone, I forgot to mention last week, one of the things they want to promote is a SFBO episode 60 starting at time mark for 16:05 where we learn how Kayla fights nationalism one donzerly at a time, donzerly
KAYLA: I can't believe I had to hear that for a second time
SARAH: Yeah, you had to do it, I’m really sorry, we can move on now. Our other $10 patrons are Clare Olsen, Derick & Carissa, Elle Bitter, Eric, my aunt Jeannie, Johanna, Kayla’s dad, Maff, Martin Chiesl, Purple Hayes, Quartertone, Barefoot Backpacker, SongOStorm, and Val. Our $15 patrons are Ace who would like to promote the writer Crystal Scherer, Nathaniel White, NathanielJWhiteDesigns.com. Kayla is just staring into space putting lip balm on.
[00:50:00]
KAYLA: I have these like cuts on my lip, I have no idea where they came from, it really hurts
SARAH: Is that like an EOS lip balm?
KAYLA: No, it's Vaseline in this travel container
SARAH: I was gonna say, is it 2013?
KAYLA: No
SARAH: 2014, I guess
KAYLA: No, this is my old lady travel container with Vaseline that I shoved in it
SARAH: Wow, love that for you. Kayla’s Aunt Nina who would like to promote katemaggartart.com and Schnell who would like to promote accepting that everyone is different and that's awesome. Our $20 patrons, we have a new one, it's Changeling & Alex
KAYLA: Yaaaayyyyy
SARAH: Hey, Changeling. Changeling has been around forever for those of you who know this. They would like to promote their company, Control Alt Access.com and they offer accessibility consultations and access technology training and they have a special now through October 31st where new customers get 50% off their first two hours of service, hell yeah, love that for them. Class, thank you, Changeling for supporting us, always. And our other 20 other patrons are Dragonfly, my mom and River who would like to promote, at first, I said, I didn't… the only thing I could think of was going into labor and I didn't really want to promote that. So, then I wanted to promote finding my nail file because I know it's here somewhere but I can't find it, Kayla offered me hers.
KAYLA: Yep
SARAH: Thanks for listening, tune in… hey, we cut that back half
KAYLA: We did, you're welcome
SARAH: It's half as long
KAYLA: Way short now
SARAH: Thanks for listening, tune in next Sunday for more of us in your ears. And if you are in the US or Canada have a wonderful long weekend
KAYLA: And until then, take good care of your cows
[END OF TRANSCRIPT]
